merry andrew
Erudite
Aha, I might have to try that. Thanks.
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Review Our Gothic 3 review
- Thread starter Vault Dweller
- Start date
Thrawn05
Scholar
Vault Dweller said:
Great review. Didn't influence me though, since I bought it this morning. The only place that had it was EB. One copy. On the only shelve with PC games. It was next to Redneck Rampage and Quake 3.
Really? That must've been very hard, given the density of agressive animals and combat being a primary source of experience. So at level one everything can kill you really fast, you are certain to encounter something hostile a few steps from the starting location, and you enjoyed not needing to be violent. You must've been running through the games, literally.merry andrew said:
Ladonna
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 11,364
One whine I will have about the game; The humanoids suck when it comes to fighting beasts.
I run along and meet Big Johnny, the famous wolf hunter....So we go hunting, and Big Mouth John only starts combat when a wolf bites him, and while I am busy cleaning up the rest of the wolves, Big John goes down to his first wolf.
How can this wanker teach me anything about hunting?
Apart from that, the game is brilliant. Certainly better than anything I have bought for a long, long time (We shall see if MTW2 can take that crown though, and please don't suggest NWN2, not interested till it hits the bargain bin. No patches except through autoupdating, fucking lame).
I run along and meet Big Johnny, the famous wolf hunter....So we go hunting, and Big Mouth John only starts combat when a wolf bites him, and while I am busy cleaning up the rest of the wolves, Big John goes down to his first wolf.
How can this wanker teach me anything about hunting?Apart from that, the game is brilliant. Certainly better than anything I have bought for a long, long time (We shall see if MTW2 can take that crown though, and please don't suggest NWN2, not interested till it hits the bargain bin. No patches except through autoupdating, fucking lame).
Pussycat669
Liturgist
How come?
merry andrew
Erudite
Yeah, I usually get to speed potions as fast as I can, for quick travel, and tread very carefully and sneak around the rest of the time. I fought when I needed to. I like hard games, and if there's a difficulty slider, that was most likely on hard too. Playing that way makes it a better experience for me because even though there was a lot of violence, it never felt in excess or unimportant (like most action RPGs).Claw said:
But yeah, the first two games start you off relatively unequipped in a wildlife setting. I liked that. I didn't like being thrown into a battle with humanoids at the beginning of Gothic 3. If I ever get around to playing it again, I'll definitely do what V.D. suggested, although I hope I can find some good reason for doing so, as to not disrupt my pseudo-LARP.
the_dagon
Educated
...lack of objectivity
Hi,
This review disappoints me... This is not in RPGCODEX style to give such high praises for a game which is just "allright". This review should be more "balanced"
Let's be clear about that : I'm a Gothic fan. I loved Gothic 1 & 2, but was quite disappointed with Gothic 3. There are some serious bad design choices.
- Graphics & soundtracks are great, but the game isn't optimized and it's buggy, and it's quite laggy.
- There's a great feeling of liberty in it, and that's the essence of RPGs, but they completely sacrificed the excellent storyline Gothic 1 & 2 had. Gothic 3 has a weak storyline at best, compared to the other ones
- combat... combat is a mess, it's awfully bad. And the problem is that it's about 80% of the game. I think it completely spoiled the game
You didn't even mention the world became so huge, they filled the cities with NPC fillers. Remember the capital in Gothic 2. Almost every character had something interesting to say... now 80 % of the NPCs are generic and say "leave me alone"...
I'm no Elder scroll fan, but my feeling is that the Elder scroll serie is moving more and more toward Gothic 1 style (good scenario), and the Gothic serie is moving more and more toward the old Elder scroll style (weak scenario)...
my two cents. Sorry for my bad english.
Hi,
This review disappoints me... This is not in RPGCODEX style to give such high praises for a game which is just "allright". This review should be more "balanced"
Let's be clear about that : I'm a Gothic fan. I loved Gothic 1 & 2, but was quite disappointed with Gothic 3. There are some serious bad design choices.
- Graphics & soundtracks are great, but the game isn't optimized and it's buggy, and it's quite laggy.
- There's a great feeling of liberty in it, and that's the essence of RPGs, but they completely sacrificed the excellent storyline Gothic 1 & 2 had. Gothic 3 has a weak storyline at best, compared to the other ones
- combat... combat is a mess, it's awfully bad. And the problem is that it's about 80% of the game. I think it completely spoiled the game
You didn't even mention the world became so huge, they filled the cities with NPC fillers. Remember the capital in Gothic 2. Almost every character had something interesting to say... now 80 % of the NPCs are generic and say "leave me alone"...
I'm no Elder scroll fan, but my feeling is that the Elder scroll serie is moving more and more toward Gothic 1 style (good scenario), and the Gothic serie is moving more and more toward the old Elder scroll style (weak scenario)...
my two cents. Sorry for my bad english.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2005
- Messages
- 24,793
Re: ...lack of objectivity
WARNING: I only played the demo.
Okay, listen.
- For a laggy game, it runs really smoothly on my Radeon 9600 SE. I think the trouble is that some people have wrong cachesizes/virtual memory sizes in windows, which should reduce the loading lag and stuttering quite a bit. But the developers should have tested the game on more machines, that's true. Still, Gothic 1/2 were just as laggy and buggy when they came out. Especially 2 was called unplayable.
- So you are saying 1/2 had a better story? I played those games more than once, but I must have missed that good story. Care to help me realise what was so good about it?
- Look. Combat in Gothic 1/2 was this: Swing sword left, swing sword right, swing sword left, swing sword right. You'd hold control and press left/right/left/right in rhythm, like in those old Amiga sex show games. How is the new system worse? [Yes, you could block, and move, and all, but left/right was still the most effective tactic.]
the_dagon said:
WARNING: I only played the demo.
Okay, listen.
- For a laggy game, it runs really smoothly on my Radeon 9600 SE. I think the trouble is that some people have wrong cachesizes/virtual memory sizes in windows, which should reduce the loading lag and stuttering quite a bit. But the developers should have tested the game on more machines, that's true. Still, Gothic 1/2 were just as laggy and buggy when they came out. Especially 2 was called unplayable.
- So you are saying 1/2 had a better story? I played those games more than once, but I must have missed that good story. Care to help me realise what was so good about it?
- Look. Combat in Gothic 1/2 was this: Swing sword left, swing sword right, swing sword left, swing sword right. You'd hold control and press left/right/left/right in rhythm, like in those old Amiga sex show games. How is the new system worse? [Yes, you could block, and move, and all, but left/right was still the most effective tactic.]
the_dagon
Educated
story & combat
At least there WAS a story in Gothic 1.
and the world was changing. I remember the first city in Gothic 1, which was closed after a while, taken by the orcs, ...
or in Gothic 2, the orcs which were taking the whole country...
in Gothic 3 there's NO story.
as for combat, it was not great, but at least, Gothic 1 & 2 needed you to synchronise your movements, it was not just a clickfeast.
Gothic 3 ? Just hammer the right button until the monster dies, that's all dumb.
At least there WAS a story in Gothic 1.
and the world was changing. I remember the first city in Gothic 1, which was closed after a while, taken by the orcs, ...
or in Gothic 2, the orcs which were taking the whole country...
in Gothic 3 there's NO story.
as for combat, it was not great, but at least, Gothic 1 & 2 needed you to synchronise your movements, it was not just a clickfeast.
Gothic 3 ? Just hammer the right button until the monster dies, that's all dumb.
Data4
Arcane
I'm just another moron with an opinion, but fuck it. I'm playing G3 a little at a time, while I work on finishing NWN2, and so far I'm enjoying it. It's not perfect, but you have to give props to PB for effort.
So far, its performance for me is flawless. If you must know my specs, I'm running an AMD 64 4800+ Dual Core X2, 2 GB of Ram (and not that fancy schmancy Corsair stuff, either), an ATI Radeon X1800XT 256MB on an Asus A8N5X motherboard using NForce4. Easily a decent gaming platform, but by no means bleeding edge.
As for gameplay, it's an Action RPG and does it quite well. Given the "atmosphere" of RPGs over the last 8 or 9 months, you simply cannot avoid Oblivion comparisons, and it trumps it. Think of Gothic 3 as the better Oblivion, if you have to frame it that way to understand. I'm regularly getting my ass handed to me by wild beasties, but that doesn't make a good game. Having to assess what my capabilities are, prepare for, and choose my battles does. I've found that I've been spoiled by the easiness of Oblivion, and God help me, my playing style changed whether I wanted it or not. Thankfully, my recent experience with NWN2 reminded me that you have to be prepared, or be prepared to run like a bitch if battles go awry.
Do things happen logically? Maybe not. I can understand the apparant disconnect of being able to take on multiple orcs, when the now famous aggressive wild boars plow you over easily. But I also adjusted, using ranged attacks, managing potions, and turning and running if/when necessary, and I've overcome that. I've learned that if my only experience with RPG combat is click-click-click a la Oblivion then I WILL hate Gothic 3's combat.
But I don't. I'm now reminded that a good RPG has areas that you simply don't want to go into without the proper experience. It's a lesson learned with many thanks to PB for forcing me to think. Man, would I have loved to be able to learn hard lessons from Oblivion like that! I might even be playing it still, enjoying Oscuro's or whatever.
As for roleplaying opportunities, there are quite a few so far. It's not like NWN2, however, where your choices affect moral alignment, but since this isn't based on a D&D setting, the faction alignment works just fine.
This isn't the be-all, end-all RPG by any means, but it is good. There's an intent shown by PB to increase and improve the RPGness of the Gothic series, and that's what I believe VD is praising. It's what I praise about the game. It's almost cliche to say it now, but positive feedback is a must for any developer wanting to shy away from the easy, hand holding style that let Bethesda sell so many copies of their steaming pile of horseshit to the masses of dumbasses. The result will be that Gothic 3 won't be as big of a commercial success, but their efforts need to be noticed and well recieved. Otherwise, if there will be a Gothic 4, it will end up being Oblivion 1.5.
-D4
So far, its performance for me is flawless. If you must know my specs, I'm running an AMD 64 4800+ Dual Core X2, 2 GB of Ram (and not that fancy schmancy Corsair stuff, either), an ATI Radeon X1800XT 256MB on an Asus A8N5X motherboard using NForce4. Easily a decent gaming platform, but by no means bleeding edge.
As for gameplay, it's an Action RPG and does it quite well. Given the "atmosphere" of RPGs over the last 8 or 9 months, you simply cannot avoid Oblivion comparisons, and it trumps it. Think of Gothic 3 as the better Oblivion, if you have to frame it that way to understand. I'm regularly getting my ass handed to me by wild beasties, but that doesn't make a good game. Having to assess what my capabilities are, prepare for, and choose my battles does. I've found that I've been spoiled by the easiness of Oblivion, and God help me, my playing style changed whether I wanted it or not. Thankfully, my recent experience with NWN2 reminded me that you have to be prepared, or be prepared to run like a bitch if battles go awry.
Do things happen logically? Maybe not. I can understand the apparant disconnect of being able to take on multiple orcs, when the now famous aggressive wild boars plow you over easily. But I also adjusted, using ranged attacks, managing potions, and turning and running if/when necessary, and I've overcome that. I've learned that if my only experience with RPG combat is click-click-click a la Oblivion then I WILL hate Gothic 3's combat.
But I don't. I'm now reminded that a good RPG has areas that you simply don't want to go into without the proper experience. It's a lesson learned with many thanks to PB for forcing me to think. Man, would I have loved to be able to learn hard lessons from Oblivion like that! I might even be playing it still, enjoying Oscuro's or whatever.
As for roleplaying opportunities, there are quite a few so far. It's not like NWN2, however, where your choices affect moral alignment, but since this isn't based on a D&D setting, the faction alignment works just fine.
This isn't the be-all, end-all RPG by any means, but it is good. There's an intent shown by PB to increase and improve the RPGness of the Gothic series, and that's what I believe VD is praising. It's what I praise about the game. It's almost cliche to say it now, but positive feedback is a must for any developer wanting to shy away from the easy, hand holding style that let Bethesda sell so many copies of their steaming pile of horseshit to the masses of dumbasses. The result will be that Gothic 3 won't be as big of a commercial success, but their efforts need to be noticed and well recieved. Otherwise, if there will be a Gothic 4, it will end up being Oblivion 1.5.
-D4
Ladonna
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 11,364
the_dagon:So the city was taken by the orcs in number one eh? No it wasn't.
The orcs were not 'taking the country' in number two.
In Gothic 3 there is a story, and its not too bad actually.
I agree that the combat is currently too easy, but then again so many people think it sucked in 1 and 2, who am I to say anything that a major dev will care about? At the least it isn't Elder scrolls shit. And I think you will find when you play the game for more than ten minutes (I assume this since you claim G3 has no story) you will find many of the beasts will eat you for breakfast with your 'clicking'. I actually does require some thought later on.
Volourn: Can you please tell me how I lied?
The orcs were not 'taking the country' in number two.
In Gothic 3 there is a story, and its not too bad actually.
I agree that the combat is currently too easy, but then again so many people think it sucked in 1 and 2, who am I to say anything that a major dev will care about? At the least it isn't Elder scrolls shit. And I think you will find when you play the game for more than ten minutes (I assume this since you claim G3 has no story) you will find many of the beasts will eat you for breakfast with your 'clicking'. I actually does require some thought later on.
Volourn: Can you please tell me how I lied?
the_dagon
Educated
storyline
Ok, it was not the orcs (I don't remember well the story, played it when it was released).
however, the only thing I can tell you is that there are no chapters, no story evolution in Gothic 3, except at the end.
I don't want to give spoilers here, so I won't argument further...
You told me combat needs some thoughts in Gothic 3, but, it's just the opposite, clickfeast.
I played as a mage, it was rignt button clickfeast until I get the mana regeneration (can't win another way). Then it was fireball feast... fireball twice, enemy dead. Repeat, and again and again...
but let's recenter on what I said : the review lacks balancing. Where are the negative points ? Because there are some, for sure !
ps: my english is bad, I know.
Ok, it was not the orcs (I don't remember well the story, played it when it was released).
however, the only thing I can tell you is that there are no chapters, no story evolution in Gothic 3, except at the end.
I don't want to give spoilers here, so I won't argument further...
You told me combat needs some thoughts in Gothic 3, but, it's just the opposite, clickfeast.
I played as a mage, it was rignt button clickfeast until I get the mana regeneration (can't win another way). Then it was fireball feast... fireball twice, enemy dead. Repeat, and again and again...
but let's recenter on what I said : the review lacks balancing. Where are the negative points ? Because there are some, for sure !
ps: my english is bad, I know.
Ladonna
Arcane
- Joined
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- 11,364
the_dagon:Theres nothing wrong with your english. Don't even try that excuse buddy.
Yep, theres no chapters. It is a big fucking game though. BIG.
I never play as a mage in the games, and almost gave up on Gothics when I was FORCED to use spells in G1.....Luckily I finished it and got onto number two, where I could be a Dragon Hunter and not use spells (I hate being a mage in games, always have). So in this regard, I have not had the same fireball crap as you. Must say fighting mages in G3 as a fighter is damn hard though....They use the same thing you do to the AI.
Yes, there are negatives. PB had too few employees for too grand a vision in too short a timeframe. They have told fans how much they WANTED to put in the game, and this tells me that they screwed up their priorities quite a bit. I am enjoying G3 immensely. It still has flaws and bugs that need to be worked out. I wished it had certain elements from the previous games that are lacking.
But its here now. Its done. I am enjoying it, but also hoping they will go back to doing what they do best in their next games; More along the lines of G1 and 2 (without the forced magic).
If you like G3, enjoy it. But go and tell the devs what you would like in their next game. If you really hate G3, then I feel sorry for you after waiting this long. Just make sure you are not writing the game off because it doesn't have all the features of the previous two. Easy to do, but perhaps not the best way of doing things.
Oh: And try to feel the pain that Fallout fans like me have when you realise Bethesda has one of your favourite IP's on their chopping block. It will make you feel better knowing that at the least, G3 is very similar in many ways to its earlier games.....
Yep, theres no chapters. It is a big fucking game though. BIG.
I never play as a mage in the games, and almost gave up on Gothics when I was FORCED to use spells in G1.....Luckily I finished it and got onto number two, where I could be a Dragon Hunter and not use spells (I hate being a mage in games, always have). So in this regard, I have not had the same fireball crap as you. Must say fighting mages in G3 as a fighter is damn hard though....They use the same thing you do to the AI.
Yes, there are negatives. PB had too few employees for too grand a vision in too short a timeframe. They have told fans how much they WANTED to put in the game, and this tells me that they screwed up their priorities quite a bit. I am enjoying G3 immensely. It still has flaws and bugs that need to be worked out. I wished it had certain elements from the previous games that are lacking.
But its here now. Its done. I am enjoying it, but also hoping they will go back to doing what they do best in their next games; More along the lines of G1 and 2 (without the forced magic).
If you like G3, enjoy it. But go and tell the devs what you would like in their next game. If you really hate G3, then I feel sorry for you after waiting this long. Just make sure you are not writing the game off because it doesn't have all the features of the previous two. Easy to do, but perhaps not the best way of doing things.
Oh: And try to feel the pain that Fallout fans like me have when you realise Bethesda has one of your favourite IP's on their chopping block. It will make you feel better knowing that at the least, G3 is very similar in many ways to its earlier games.....
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 28,044
Re: ...lack of objectivity
"The story is almost non-existent..."
"Most quests are usually very simple and basic, falling either under "bring me item(s) X" or "kill someone/something", so don't expect any depth there."
"Overall, more skills is good, but the system lacks focus. ... When you reach this point, you’ll most likely lose all the interest in the character development, which is a shame."
"Furthermore, your success in battles relies more on the number of hit points and timing than on the above mentioned mastery, making the skills less important. "
"One of the problems with the new system is the stun lock. It's deadly when your hit points are low, so whether you live or die in the beginning of the game will often be determined by whether or not you managed to strike first. The biggest problem, however, is that it’s very, very easy to hit a human or orc first..."
"Gothic 3 isn't a perfect game, and about every aspect of it could and should have been improved..."
Sorry about that, mister. I guess I simply missed the fact that the game was merely "allright". Had I known that I would have never given it such a good review. My mistake.the_dagon said:
Excellent storyline in Gothic 1: you are thrown in a prison camp and must a) survive, b) find a way out, which slowly transforms - no matter what camp you join - into c) must kill the sleeper.
And what percentage combat was in the second game?
Like what?
That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Have you even played Oblivion?
Can't you read?
"The story is almost non-existent..."
"Most quests are usually very simple and basic, falling either under "bring me item(s) X" or "kill someone/something", so don't expect any depth there."
"Overall, more skills is good, but the system lacks focus. ... When you reach this point, you’ll most likely lose all the interest in the character development, which is a shame."
"Furthermore, your success in battles relies more on the number of hit points and timing than on the above mentioned mastery, making the skills less important. "
"One of the problems with the new system is the stun lock. It's deadly when your hit points are low, so whether you live or die in the beginning of the game will often be determined by whether or not you managed to strike first. The biggest problem, however, is that it’s very, very easy to hit a human or orc first..."
"Gothic 3 isn't a perfect game, and about every aspect of it could and should have been improved..."
Ladonna
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 11,364
Its also odd that few people are mentioning the music in G3. Its easily the best music I have encountered in a game for a long, long time.
That music in the ruined city at the southern end of the desert, brilliant. All of it is great, but walking through those ruins with that music really set the atmosphere level buzzing for me.
That music in the ruined city at the southern end of the desert, brilliant. All of it is great, but walking through those ruins with that music really set the atmosphere level buzzing for me.
Many reviews mentioned the music, tho VD didn't spend much time on it b/c I think he just hates music, art, and all other trappings of civilized human life.
Gothic 1 and 2 both had good music, and the NotR expansion added some of the best videogame music I've ever heard. I can't wait to hear G3's music. :D
Gothic 1 and 2 both had good music, and the NotR expansion added some of the best videogame music I've ever heard. I can't wait to hear G3's music. :D
Ladonna
Arcane
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- Aug 27, 2006
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- 11,364
Well, its that good that I grabbed a Pak ripper and got the music out of the game, burned it to CD and listen to some tracks in the car, etc.
Never done that before (Or thought of doing it).
G1 and 2 had some good tracks, but this one blows them away.
Never done that before (Or thought of doing it).
G1 and 2 had some good tracks, but this one blows them away.
- Joined
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- 24,793
Find the old RPG game music thread! I linked to some other great soundtracks there. You might enjoy Arcanum's tracks, Ladonna, or early Soule. Also, the music of Realms of Arkania is exceptional, at times. Same goes for Final Fantasy 1 to 9. [Music was surely one of the best things of that jRPG series.]
Ladonna
Arcane
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Arcanums is great for sure.
Soule too, but seriously, this stuff blows almost everything else out of the water (To me anyway). They really fit the tracks to every area of the game in G3.
I will definately check that thread out though Jasede, thanks for the heads up. :D
Soule too, but seriously, this stuff blows almost everything else out of the water (To me anyway). They really fit the tracks to every area of the game in G3.
I will definately check that thread out though Jasede, thanks for the heads up. :D
- Joined
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http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14418&start=0
And while I haven't heard much of G3's music yet, I can already determine that it's awesome. My finely attuned ears notice that it's performed by a professional orchestra, and the melodies are hauntingly beautiful.
And while I haven't heard much of G3's music yet, I can already determine that it's awesome. My finely attuned ears notice that it's performed by a professional orchestra, and the melodies are hauntingly beautiful.
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 28,044
suibhne said:
I really like some of NWN2's music. The Merchant Quarter, the Keep...really great stuff. But Gothic has some of the only music that I still hum to myself over a year later, so I was pretty stoked to discover a few minutes ago that my copy arrived today. 
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