Incline Path of Exile 2 - now available on Early Access

[Israfael]

70 hrs is honestly the upper limit of what I'm willing to spend in a character generally speaking.

Maybe you should stick to D4 then, everything is done in 50 hrs or less in that game. Or just play trade league, then everything is compressed and boring stuff (aka actually playing the game and progressing instead of cruising through content in welfare or, gasp, RMT gear) is cut out

Incursion. Delirium. Regen mobs. Abyss (although it's so low I almost feel bad for putting it here). Arguably shaper (the entire arena will fill with damage zones), Sirus (he has pretty high hp regen iirc). Probably more things I can't remember.

You've never played MMOs probably, hard dps check means there is a hard limit on how much time you can spend on the boss. So, it's a literal timer in form of enrage (blizzard added that in diablo3 after some people 'exploited' act3 bosses pre nerf), safe space getting progressively smaller etc. Everything you've listed just prolongs encounters provided you can survive so it is not hard dps check. In any case, you don't have to have 6 gorillion dps, for example, to kill Shaper, he'd die just fine if you execute mechanics welll enough.

70h is way too much time to spend on one character , 99% of the time doing boring grind for no to little reward.

So, you play a grindy game to get what? What's the point in immediatelly one-shotting every uber as soon as you hear the zing of divine orb dropping?

 

[Israfael]

Anything with timers? Like Legion?

There is timer but it just defines how many waves you can spawn. Even if you fail to kill a boss on the wave1, you stilll get loot and xp from those mobs / rares you've managed to kill

 

[Damned Registrations]

You've never played MMOs probably, hard dps check means there is a hard limit on how much time you can spend on the boss. So, it's a literal timer in form of enrage (blizzard added that in diablo3 after some people 'exploited' act3 bosses pre nerf), safe space getting progressively smaller etc. Everything you've listed just prolongs encounters provided you can survive so it is not hard dps check. In any case, you don't have to have 6 gorillion dps, for example, to kill Shaper, he'd die just fine if you execute mechanics welll enough.

You've never played an off meta character probably, Incursion, Abyss, Delirium and Regen mobs are all literally impossible to complete if you don't do X amount of DPS. You might not have noticed because you were killing everything in 3 seconds instead of doing something difficult.

If you don't kill the incursion mobs, you get kicked out and don't get a fucking key. If you do less damage than a mob can regenerate, you don't get any loot or xp. You get nothing. You may as well have fucking logged out.

There is timer but it just defines how many waves you can spawn. Even if you fail to kill a boss on the wave1, you stilll get loot and xp from those mobs / rares you've managed to kill

By this logic I can 'complete' Uber Atziri at level 1 by walking in and leaving with something I took from a pot I smashed before dying. It's the same as all the other shit- do X amount of damage per second to get the reward. Fall below that number, it's a waste of time. Breach is the same shit. Delerium too. Loot scales with the square of dps. Double your damage per second: quadruple your loot per second. This is why everyone builds to clear enemies instead of survival and why people that don't like dying in 3 frames or grinding harmless chaff for 300 hours want other options. There's no such thing as a league mechanic that gives you more loot the longer you survive a barrage of attacks. There are no bosses with degenerating health bars that you could speed up slightly by dealing a million dps but also defeat by simply surviving for 5 minutes. There is, in short, no way to convert defenses into gaining faster loot.

 

[Grunker]

You can't see how truly paradoxical it is to complain about lack of progression yet you insist on playing actively bad builds? Semantics aside, my Arc point was that almost any skill with basic clear ability can fairly steadily be made to clear all meaningful content. You might lack hands and time (like me) and that will hamper your progress, but the way you're talking it certainly sounds like you are playing something absolute trash, talking smack about "clearing things in 3 seconds" and then complain about no making progress.

And before you quote the "bad builds part" out of context, the point is that very few skills can't support steady progress with most mechanics if you build them probably. If your point is that you can't just make some random build then yes, you’re right, but then if that was possible then what the fuck would be the point of having system challenges?

You're taking your bicycle from Copenhagen to Rome and when someone tells you that you could do it by car you scoff and go "HURR OF COURSE IF YOU TAKE A PRIVATE JET IT'S POSSIBLE"

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

Every skill I tried just by scaling gear and tree was t12~t14 worthy, there may be exceptions only usable with meme rares but saying off meta is unplayable is just false.

 

[tritosine2k]

off meta is unplayable is just false.

lay off the kool aid then cuz even blind is unplayable

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

A support skill is unplayable... what?

 

[tritosine2k]

Start off without any guide = blind. How were you supposed to know you can level with frenzy charge on minion with stygian spectre, and what difference did it make ?
Well, it used to go from unplayable to playable. But now you re supposed to believe if they hinder you down to 1 m/s it will be a fine game and SOMEHOW they can create a good turtling ARPG experience now when it wasn't ever about that. LOL.

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

I was talking about non-meta skills, you are talking about lack of clarity in game mechanics 2 different issues.

 

[Grunker]

Mark my words: The same people complaining that they can’t complete content with their own nonsense builds are the ones you’ll find in threads about triple A RPGs complaining you aren’t punished for not making a good build.

Can’t complete content with shit build =\= Skill X isn’t viable

 

[Damned Registrations]

You can't see how truly paradoxical it is to complain about lack of progression yet you insist on playing actively bad builds?

The point is that in pretty much any other game, even within the same fucking genre, having half the clearspeed means you accrue power and loot at half the rate. I'd be fine with that. Here, it's more like 1/4 the rate, and it gets worse the further the gap. And the gap gets really, really fucking big when you start comparing something in the meta with something you tried on a whim because you found a cool unique that was meta 6 leagues ago and got nerfed into the ground.

It means trying to tackle a red map as soon as one drops is a giant waste of fucking time because you'll get nothing from the league mechanics you can't finish AND it'll take your longer to clear the normal enemeies AND you'll risk dying AND you won't be able to juice it with currency. Instead, what a 'good' player like Grunker does, is blitz through lower maps in 3 minutes a piece without actually needing to have the screen turned on. Preferably while watching a streamer tell you which circles to click on on the other monitor. Haha I kid; that'd take too long just download the PoB and copy it exactly.

You either faceroll easy, lucrative league mechanics or stumble through difficult, unrewarding base game stuff. There's no middle ground.

If I play an actively bad strategy in another game, it generally doesn't just close off 80% of the fucking gameplay. If I want to play a game of Civ where I aggressively deforest everything I can for the lulz, it doesn't turn off religion, diplomacy, civics, sea faring and settlers. PoE is like that. Play a bad enough build, and all those cool league mechanics basically don't exist any more. You can only do them once you're so much higher level than them that they drop nothing of value and offer no challenge or gameplay to speak of.

 

[ArchAngel]

Mark my words: The same people complaining that they can’t complete content with their own nonsense builds are the ones you’ll find in threads about triple A RPGs complaining you aren’t punished for not making a good build.

Can’t complete content with shit build =\= Skill X isn’t viable

I will admit PoE is super complicated in its current state and I stopped caring around Delirium and Legion when they added shit that changes skill trees.
I did all my builds without using any of the new shit because whole design is cancer. They keep adding new autistic mechanics and then balance the game around autists abusing all of those. And each has a new level of grinding to get them..
That said your comparison is bad because those AAA games are simpler than open beta PoE1.

 

[Gerrard]

Zoomertard tears, my favorite.

 

[Jaedar]

Yet with trade and SSF, GGG is more conservative than fucking Blizzard.

Because they think good trade will make people play less, and as a f2p company they need people to play more so they can harvest more money from the whales.

 

[Grunker]

Yet with trade and SSF, GGG is more conservative than fucking Blizzard.

Because they think good trade will make people play less, and as a f2p company they need people to play more so they can harvest more money from the whales.

Incidentally, I believe this is the reason they won't increase drop chances for SSF. I'm not sure it's the reason for the trade thing though, because they could just adjust drop rates to reflect the new, cheaper economy.

 

[tritosine2k]

When the alternative to "zoom" ( basically every SSF streamer) is some superstitious sketchy belief system, be a "zoomertard".

 

[Zeriel]

It sounds like they are making a game precisely for the people who don't play PoE

it actually shows, most rabid poe2 waiters are thinking plot and animashuns are the most important parts of the glorified slot machines ARPGs and naturally they come from D3/D4 quagmire. This + weird fixation on the most, lets say, controversial parts of ruthless makes it clear that I most probablly won't be playing POE2 on release as it targets wildly different audience.

Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 were slower than what PoE2 has shown so far so I would say modern arpg fast pace is shit and I want return to good old times.

No one forces you to do zoom-zoom, just play SSF like we do and do whatever you want. Before I've got some upgrades my run speed was like 30% on iceshot ranger (the zoomiest of them all) and I managed to live with that. There is already a choice to do zoom or not to do zoom, but somehow some people want to force everyone to play in the way they (a minority by definition as everyone has their own preferences) want.

Eh I actually like the story & plot and worldbuilding being connected to the gameplay. One of my biggest issues with endgame in PoE1 is how mapping is so divorced from what comes before it...

But that's a separate gripe from huge gameplay changes in PoE2 that just seem to amount to the devs repudiating their own legacy and philosophy and going, "Let's copy X popular game that has no connection to ARPGs!"

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yet with trade and SSF, GGG is more conservative than fucking Blizzard.

Because they think good trade will make people play less, and as a f2p company they need people to play more so they can harvest more money from the whales.

Incidentally, I believe this is the reason they won't increase drop chances for SSF. I'm not sure it's the reason for the trade thing though, because they could just adjust drop rates to reflect the new, cheaper economy.

I think their logic is that if people have to warp to someone else's hideout to trade, they'll see their hats and get jealous and buy their own. They're probably right, honestly. Even if not outright jealous, it's certainly got to normalize the idea in your head 'Hey, every single person I see has fancy glowing wings and special portals and shit... maybe I'm a cheapskate?' Something like that.

 

[luj1]

I'm listening to the interview and the sheer contempt Jonathan seems to have for the current state of PoE1 gets me very excited for PoE2. This guy is making all the right decisions and saying all the right things.

I agree with this.

But everyone needs to be set straight on the fact that PoE 2 will play more like Lost Ark with PoE 1 systems. Which is fine by me. It means slower gameplay, more fun early game, more fun leveling. PoE became a mindless game and a quick way to lose your sanity.

 

[d1r]

I'm listening to the interview and the sheer contempt Jonathan seems to have for the current state of PoE1 gets me very excited for PoE2. This guy is making all the right decisions and saying all the right things.

I agree with this.

But everyone needs to be set straight on the fact that PoE 2 will play more like Lost Ark with PoE 1 systems. Which is fine by me. It means slower gameplay, more fun early game, more fun leveling. PoE became a mindless game and a quick way to lose your sanity.

Link to the interview?

 

[tritosine2k]

I'm listening to the interview and the sheer contempt Jonathan seems to have for the current state of PoE1 gets me very excited for PoE2. This guy is making all the right decisions and saying all the right things.

I agree with this.

But everyone needs to be set straight on the fact that PoE 2 will play more like Lost Ark with PoE 1 systems. Which is fine by me. It means slower gameplay, more fun early game, more fun leveling. PoE became a mindless game and a quick way to lose your sanity.

kool aid, too good to be true etc. like "they didn't improve 1 all that much only because they were busy on 2" yeah right

oh wait it's improved with horrible new dialogue, skanky new bosses, ridiculous expectations on the table nothing else.

 

[Israfael]

But that's a separate gripe from huge gameplay changes in PoE2 that just seem to amount to the devs repudiating their own legacy and philosophy and going, "Let's copy X popular game that has no connection to ARPGs!"

Well, at least they've separated games so there won't be giant backlash at the release or open beta

Incidentally, I believe this is the reason they won't increase drop chances for SSF. I'm not sure it's the reason for the trade thing though, because they could just adjust drop rates to reflect the new, cheaper economy.

The game is already very unfriendly for non-solo play (shared curses limit, incoming damage is increased way more than shared buffs increase survivability and DPS (sans aurabots)), so if the drop rates were much higher in SSF, why even bother with trade unless there are hard to get items like MB, HH, good rolled synth items, oriath end etc. Although they could have tried at the very least experimenting it (actually, they did with harvest which allowed to plan upgrades in SSF, but it was deemed too powerful for trade leagues)

 

[Israfael]

Watched the Ziz interview with the poe2 guy, looks like devs won't do the separate drop rates for SSF for the same reason they won't do allow it in private leagues

 

[Peachcurl]

I don't buy that reasoning. Only now they realize it's actually easier to get items in trade, compared to ssf? Come on.

 

[Israfael]

This is why everyone builds to clear enemies instead of survival and why people that don't like dying in 3 frames or grinding harmless chaff for 300 hours want other options

What prevented you from playing RF, bone shatter or any jugg build ? They all have like 200k+ effective HP, 90% all res or other ways of reducing the damage in such a way that allows you to dance in the DIE beam, run inside shapers laser etc