Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

[Clockwork Knight]

I tried to like this game and I even bought the beta.

But the skill tree was just way, way, way too complicated for this girl's brain.

It seems needlessly over complex even. Like an old Final Fantasy game or something.

 

[Baptismbyfire]

I tried to like this game and I even bought the beta.

But the skill tree was just way, way, way too complicated for this girl's brain.

It seems needlessly over complex even. Like an old Final Fantasy game or something.

Yeah, they should stick to Interactive Barbie's Playhouse or something.

 

[idriveabucket]

Anybody have an extra beta key for a long time codexer?

 

[Kane]

open beta starts in 3 days.

 

[idriveabucket]

That's good news.

Still, if anybody has an extra key, I'd like to try it out.

 

[Blaine]

PoE is a decent aRPG, but being compelled to collect a hundred stash tabs worth of items (probably more) and keep an Excel document so that you can fulfill needlessly* elaborate recipe requirements in order to generate any wealth at all pretty much kills it for me.





* Not entirely needless, they "need" to do this in order to sell you dozens of inventory tabs.

 

[IDtenT]

Why care so much about wealth generation? Fear you'll be stuck with lower tier weapons forever?

 

[Blaine]

Something like that, yes. In a loot-grinding game, wealth is important for acquiring things you need by trading away things you don't need. If I'm forced to sell potentially quite valuable rares to the NPC for scraps because I haven't got enough stash tabs, then I'm throwing in-game wealth down the toilet, and it'll take me twice or thrice as long to gear up as someone with many dozens of tabs. Until a few days ago, I hadn't played PoE since May-June 2012, so I'm not 100% up to speed on the game's crafting mechanics. They don't seem to have changed, though. Here's the definitive recipe thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/15223

It's more than just the need to spend $ on stash tabs, however. The mechanic itself is obnoxious. I want to actually play the game, not manage and tabulate 100+ tabs of loot I don't give a shit about other than the possibility they'll fulfill an orb recipe.

The Gold Supporter Pack costs $235 and gives you enough points to buy 78 tabs. I have 10 tabs already, so that would bring me up to 88 tabs. 80+ is pretty much the bare minimum to run one of these "farms," because GGG have added a shitload more names to rare items (meaning it's much harder to match three rares for Alchemy orbs), and Regal Orbs need that many tabs anyway.

I don't think this game is worth $235+ to me, even if I were willing to go through the aggravation of managing loot for their obnoxious crafting system. Nor do I want to be an impoverished second-class citizen simply because others will pay hundreds of dollars for tabs and are willing to manage loot for the obnoxious crafting system. My path is clear: Play something else.

Here's are a couple of quotes from this GGG forum thread:

Regal matches are made by matching with friends. I have 67 pages, and I promise you, even only collecting certain items I rarely get any matches unless I match with someone else.

The third issue that's been raised is whether these recipies are turning extra stash tabs into a pay to win mechanic. I'm going to be very blunt here: I assumed that combination of recipies and extra stash were an intended pay to win mechanic before I read all the stuff about "ethical micro-transactions". If it's not intentional, then yeah, it's an issue, I have 80 pages of stash and get about 30 alchs a day from it. However, I think GGG would face a bit of a backlash if they tried to do anything about it at this point. People have already paid for their stash tabs, so if mechanics were changed to reduce their usefulness (and value) then the people who paid hundreds of dollars for extra tabs would be rightfully unhappy about it.

Note that 30 Alchemy Orbs per day = approximately 5 Gemcutter's Prisms per day. Someone with ten stash tabs will be able to get about 0-3 GCP per week... perhaps more, but surely not more than 1 GCP per day. Thus someone with 80+ tabs can generate five times as much wealth, which is ridiculous.

 

[empi]

You really don't need many stash tabs when you know what's worth it and what's not. And you really don't even need to trade, especially not in closed beta. Just levelling with a party will get you more than enough gear you need, and then maybe you'll farm fellshrine on merciless a bit before moving onto maps. Also, there's a chrome app that lets you search through your stash and highlights the recipes you can make etc. if you really can't manage your tabs. Generating a lot of wealth isn't game breaking anyway, it's not like it will majorly affect races and they're the time when you're in the most direct competition with others.

I've been playing with the 3 extra stashtabs from paying 10$ to get the beta key, and i've had no problems with wealth or anything, it's just unnecessary worrying that much about your currency items, have easily got the gear to run maps from my own/party's gear and currencies. Looks like the game will get harder in OB, which is very good but I still really doubt that you'd need to manage stash tab upon stash tab to farm currencies.

This is really a non-issue for me as a player at least

 

[IDtenT]

You really don't need many stash tabs when you know what's worth it and what's not. And you really don't even need to trade, especially not in closed beta. Just levelling with a party will get you more than enough gear you need, and then maybe you'll farm fellshrine on merciless a bit before moving onto maps. Also, there's a chrome app that lets you search through your stash and highlights the recipes you can make etc. if you really can't manage your tabs. Generating a lot of wealth isn't game breaking anyway, it's not like it will majorly affect races and they're the time when you're in the most direct competition with others.

I've been playing with the 3 extra stashtabs from paying 10$ to get the beta key, and i've had no problems with wealth or anything, it's just unnecessary worrying that much about your currency items, have easily got the gear to run maps from my own/party's gear and currencies. Looks like the game will get harder in OB, which is very good but I still really doubt that you'd need to manage stash tab upon stash tab to farm currencies.

This is really a non-issue for me as a player at least

Exactly what I was thinking. 5% extra DPS isn't going to change anything.

 

[Castanova]

Yeah, I mean, it just sounds like Blaine is the kind of gamer that can't play a game without dominating it? Not sure. I bought the $25 Kiwi pack so I'll probably spend those points on stash tabs and then be content with that.

 

[hoverdog]

You can always have additional accounts with characters that work as mules, nothing more, if you're that desperate.

 

[Gregz]

The Gold Supporter Pack costs $235 and gives you enough points to buy 78 tabs. I have 10 tabs already, so that would bring me up to 88 tabs. 80+ is pretty much the bare minimum to run one of these "farms," because GGG have added a shitload more names to rare items (meaning it's much harder to match three rares for Alchemy orbs), and Regal Orbs need that many tabs anyway.

Ah crap, I didn't know they did this...dick move for sure.

Now I'm on the fence too.

 

[Angthoron]

Well, it's pretty much the idea of having the "whales" pay for the bulk of the things. A casual player won't need any of that, and normal players will make mules or trade, but then there's the hardcore players that'll want to spend time or money or both just to be in the top 1% elite, and that's where GGG intends to make money. Pretty reasonable, nobody forces people to be in top 1%, nor is being in 1% strictly requiring that kind of investment. Dick move? Maybe, but on the other hand what, should they hand everything on a silver platter for free and go bankrupt? Maybe not.

 

[godsend1989]

I dont know about you guys but the cuthroat league sounds fun.

 

[Blaine]

Yeah, I mean, it just sounds like Blaine is the kind of gamer that can't play a game without dominating it? Not sure. I bought the $25 Kiwi pack so I'll probably spend those points on stash tabs and then be content with that.

When you "dominate" largely by paying the developers an exorbitant amount of money, then I have a problem with it. The phenomenon is colloquially referred to as pay-to-win. There's no way to acquire points through gameplay, nor trade for them; to get tabs you must pay the developers, and tabs = more in-game money (much more, from all accounts), which in turn means better gear for more of your characters—and in a loot grinder, gear is extremely important.

Yes, I could be content with being five times poorer than someone with a 100+ tab orb farm, but I'm not. You feel differently, and that's fine.

You can always have additional accounts with characters that work as mules, nothing more, if you're that desperate.

Stash tabs are per account, so if you wanted 100 tabs doing this, you'd need 20 accounts. Managing it would require dual-clienting (does GGG allow that?) in order to trade between accounts, and would be a logistical nightmare.

Besides, it's not just about the money. I can easily afford $235, but the game isn't worth that much to me (at least, I'm not sure if it is), and I'm against pay-to-win on principle. As I stated earlier, the crafting recipes are also obnoxiously elaborate, and even if I were willing to pay I have little desire to accumulate and tabulate a warehouse full of junk.

 

[hoverdog]

pay-to-win

You don't have to spend any money to complete the game. Hell, you probably won't have to spend a single cent to be competitive in PvP. There will be guys that'll be slightly more efficient at gathering resources. So what? There will always be pro gamers willing to shed their time, sweat and money to become the elite 1% in a game.
It's like saying Might&Magic IV was P2W because the game was a breeze when you had Darkside too.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You act as though being 5 times poorer means something important. It's the same as in reality: Paying 5 times more for a cup of coffee doesn't make it 5 times better. It's still a fucking cup of coffee. Buying a 5x more expensive item means you're buying an item in the top .2% of drops instead of the top .4% of drops. Who gives a fuck. You're talking about trivial differences in gameplay. It'll have 60 energy instead of 58. Wooo.

If anything, the fact that such farms exist make it easier for free players to get regals simply by trading decent items for them. And you're sure as fuck not going to pay to win any races by dicking around with your stashes to farm regals while everyone else is out running maps.

 

[IDtenT]

Yes, I could be content with being five times poorer than someone with a 100+ tab orb farm, but I'm not. You feel differently, and that's fine.

So you're exactly the type of player he's talking about.

As I stated earlier, the crafting recipes are also obnoxiously elaborate, and even if I were willing to pay I have little desire to accumulate and tabulate a warehouse full of junk.

So pay-to-win is a time-intensive path that you're not no sane person is willing to take? Gotcha.

Blaine, if you are so concerned, then join a paid league where people have your mindset. They will exist.

 

[Gregz]

No guys, Blaine is right. Angthoron's point is also true, they need to make money somehow in a free-to-play model. It's just a shame they are doing it like this.

World of Tanks is similar, but very talented/dedicated players can compete with the wallet warriors because it's very twitch and strategic. PoE is far less so, in PoE gear matters a lot, and everything is open trade so player wealth determines what you get to wear in the high-end game.

 

[IDtenT]

No guys, Blaine is right. Angthoron's point is also true, they need to make money somehow in a free-to-play model. It's just a shame they are doing it like this.

World of Tanks is similar, but very talented/dedicated players can compete with the wallet warriors because it's very twitch and strategic. PoE is far less so, in PoE gear matters a lot, and everything is open trade so player wealth determines what you get to wear in the high-end game.

So... You're playing a loot game to have the best of the best end game loot (i.e. everyone ends up with the same set)? Do you see that you're missing the point?

 

[Gregz]

No guys, Blaine is right. Angthoron's point is also true, they need to make money somehow in a free-to-play model. It's just a shame they are doing it like this.

World of Tanks is similar, but very talented/dedicated players can compete with the wallet warriors because it's very twitch and strategic. PoE is far less so, in PoE gear matters a lot, and everything is open trade so player wealth determines what you get to wear in the high-end game.

So... You're playing a loot game to have the best of the best end game loot (i.e. everyone ends up with the same set)? Do you see that you're missing the point?

You're a shitposter with a very loose command of the English language, your sanity, and no experience with this thread topic. So no, I don't see your point.

 

[Zdzisiu]

I always thought that Pay2Win is rather when you can buy something for real money that you can't get playing the game and that thing makes you more powerfull than those who did not buy it.

But with stash tabs you are buying Comfort and you invest money to not invest time. Everybody can get the same drops etc, but you can also pay and through somewhat complicated ways get what you want faster. The only relevant factor I see here is how much faster will you be able to get what you want than a guy who just plays the game without spending cash.

 

[IDtenT]

You're a shitposter with a very loose command of the English language, your sanity, and no experience with this thread topic. So no, I don't see your point.

I do love being called a shitposter; it has that extra bit of je ne sais quoi I so seek in my life.

Let me go over this more slowly. 1) You are playing a loot gathering game. 2) The game has no unique unique drops (at least from what I've heard). 3) There is an artificial end-game wall (as with all games). 4) Artificial end-game wall means that there is the best item for your build. (Let's not even go into build, because you probably strive for the best build as well.) 5) You fear that you won't be able to afford these items, while other people can. 6) You're all striving for the same motherfucking thing, defeating the point of a loot game to begin with.

Is that more clear for you?

 

[Gregz]

Yeah that's clear enough.

There are many uniques, and there is no 'best' item because it's all RNG gear with very interesting and complicated skill synergy configurations that players still haven't discovered. So the fundamental assumption you are basing your premise on is incorrect. Play the game and see.