Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Well I logged back in and it turns out my previous character's skills have been resets. Templar level 66 and shadow 43. What are some good build for them?

 

[T. Reich]

I dont think Ive seen end game build that is not grabbing honey from at least 3 trees. At that point which of 3 is your starting position doesnt matter much.

For example I was playing shadow at beginning but I went to marauder area. While at lvl 90 Marauder was still worse choice Ive notticed, that Ranger would be slightly better for me(but only starting from lvl 90). Anyway at those lvls gear is waht matters, not passives

Can confirm that.

I maintain roughly 30 builds on my account and theorycraft around 10-15 more atm, and none of them are contained in less than 3 (out of 7) sectors of the passive tree. A few more outlandish ones go into 4 and rarely even 5 sections of the passive tree - mostly for choice keystones though.
Another cool thing is that most of those builds are flexible - I could usually pick at least 2 classes to start from, with no/very minor changes.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Yeah if you sperged on this game 2000 hours you probably start building a bunch of inefficient build for fun. Don't just pretend the passive tree is useless when Witch is the most overused class, then Warrior and ranger.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Would the desecrate skill make viper strike viable since you're going to get those Chaos passives and need something to do between 2 desecrate? Or would it still be useless.

 

[Aothan]

a lot of builds (in terms of powergaming) optimise by diverging into two or more starting areas, although often the idea is to access a variety of keystone notables and make use of the proximity to other class' starting areas which tend to have condensed opening skills.

but it is also true some classes can operate reasonably if not effectively as independent classes, and I would say that is Witch (for all things magic), Templar as basically a shield and elemental type, and perhaps the Ranger. Although the Ranger like the Marauder (and Duelist and Shadow) tend to be the types of 'classes' that can benefit by combining both their core abilities and additional skill paths


which reminds me I need to consider whether using the Baited Breath belt for its 50% increased recharge rate, and in conjunction with various jewels that increase the start of Energy Shield recharge. The main concern with using the belt is I would forgo a lot of armour, energy shield and life, which is a very useful item type for the Templar's combined abilities.

 

[T. Reich]

Yeah if you sperged on this game 2000 hours you probably start building a bunch of inefficient build for fun. Don't just pretend the passive tree is useless when Witch is the most overused class, then Warrior and ranger.

I don't play enough to understand why. Ranger just has better nodes if you really want to make arrows your main thing.

You should probably keep your mouth shut if you have no idea what you're talking about. Saves you the embarassement.

 

[T. Reich]

Playing as a "pure" class is a good way to gimp your character for the endgame.

Very few starting class sectors (only Scion and Marauder) have enough life/es nodes to get enough endgame EHP to survive. The rest are forced to explore at least the neighbouring parts of the tree, unless you want to make a brittle one-hit-wonder.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

It's funny but you try to pass it as an embarrassment when everything I said is factual.

 

[Saark]

You still think in terms of classes having their own identity. They dont. Seeing witches, maras and rangers up there doesn't mean that their starting area is better than the others. It just means that the builds that are currently considered "the best" scale "best" with those starting areas. They could change literally nothing in the tree and only buff/nerf certain skills, and suddenly other classes would become the new flavour of the month.

Currently the best builds are incinerate, poison arrow and cyclone. The starting trees that scale a little better with those builds are somewhat obvious, though a lot of people forgo the "best" option for one that is slightly worse. Summoners for example have an easier start as witch, but unless you go for multiple curses playing as a scion actually is better (since you have easier access to jewels, and summoners scale incredibly well with jewel slots).
Playing a cyclone character usually has you rolling duelist or marauder. Which one? It doesn't really matter at all, the difference is minimal.

PoE has a buttload of build-enabling uniques. Take the Whispering Ice, it has like 4 different builds, and each of them has one "best" starting point, with the others being like 5-10% behind when it comes to efficiency:
-You can play it as a cold-crit build, you would start as shadow or witch then.
-You can play it as a full support build where you would get all curse and aura nodes. Templar or scion is usually best for those.
-You can play it as a full fire-conversion build, which would see you starting as a scion or witch.
-You can play it as a no-crit cold build, for more consistent damage. Templar or witch is the best for that one.

All builds have multiple options what to play as, in some rare cases one class is just the "best". BUT: It is oftentimes about which start gets you more jewel survivability/dps. Thats why most builds have at least 2 different starting points suggested. One gets you a little more dps by the time the build is considered finished, the other might have a little more life or resistances. Or a 4th jewel slot that is convenient to grab.

And another thing: Certain classes have a way easier time leveling than others, templar being the prime example. Once the league has run for a month or two, most of those templars you could see at day one will have disappeared. Heck, when you start a race the first like 50 characters getting into lioneyes will be shadows, because they get the best skill for killing hillock quickly. That doesn't make them the "best" class for racing though.

In the end it is all about what YOU want to do.
Want to run uber aziri consistently? You will probably have to play one of the few specs that can do her reasonably well.
Want to run the highest maps with the hardest mods? The amount of choices just multiplied by like 10.
Want to have fun with a build you "invented" or saw in a guide? Do that too.
PoE isn't about getting to lvl 100, at least it isn't for the majority of the players. It's about having fun on the road to completing your build, which usually happens between level 80 and 90, and being able to just play something else if you want to. Either by respeccing, or by re-leveling. The latter is usually easier and only takes like 10 hours once you know what you're doing.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

You still think in terms of classes having their own identity.

no

They dont. Seeing witches, maras and rangers up there doesn't mean that their starting area is better than the others. It just means that the builds that are currently considered "the best" scale "best" with those starting areas. They could change literally nothing in the tree and only buff/nerf certain skills, and suddenly other classes would become the new flavour of the month.


.

That's right. But it hasn't ever changed.

 

[Aothan]

classes do have their own identity, by virtue of starting points and the choices one makes determining how many other choices remain available at any given level range. A lot of playstyles tend to 'obviate' this distinction by way of branching to keystones as the basis for designing characters. This is not to say at, for example, level 50 a class won't begin to use adjoining areas for the sake of health but a few classes in particular, indeed those already mentioned, can primarily operate within their areas to good effect. The Templar, or perhaps the Witch, are likely the best examples, with the areas shared by the Scion (the centre of the skill tree) and neighbour classes being a natural part of the class areas in the skill tree. Inasmuch as Life or Energy Shield are treated as definitive aspects of a character this ensures most classes can retain their distinctive qualities whilst also making use of Life or Energy Shield nodes without diverging.

the problem, as it were, is Path of Exile has always been defined by a few select builds, at any one time, and this type of chauvinism leads to claims about how the game is played, what 'characterisation' means and so on.

 

[Saark]

You're really talking out of your ass now, so just give it up. I've been playing for PoE for close to 4 years now, and every single class has been on top and on bottom at some point (with the exception of duelist)

Spoiler

Yeah, witch was totally op all the time, right? This is from 2 years ago.

You name ranger/mara/witch as the best classes for now. Funny, because ranger gets shit on in Tempest right now, where the holy trinity is scion/mara/witch. Warbands on the other hand sees rangers on top. Evasion doesn't mix well with HC anymore.

Bloodlines was like 50% templars+witches, and the rest comprised of the other 5 classes. Torment saw shadows as one of the best classes, on par with witches/templars, while only duelist was worse than marauder.

http://exiletools.com/report/ladder?league=bloodlines

To understand why each of the classes is on top on what point of time is key here, and that is something you have to develop by playing the game instead of whining like a little girl. Melee was crap for the better part of 2 years thanks to desync and little support-gem synergy before they brought in stuff like multistrike/splash. The only reason mara was played during that time, was because of Explosive Arrow and Ironwill builds. Casters have always been good, which is the sole reason why witches are seeing a lot of players every season. They still get outstripped when one of the adjacent classes becomes more favourable - shadows for crit, templars for survivability. I remember invasion being somewhat equal in distribution when it came to the caster classes.
Now that melee is playable again, you will obviously see a lot of people go for marauders. Same with ranged builds and rangers. It's just easier delving into all the important trees when you start in the middle of your "branch", than the other way around. But as long as the other classes see equal or at least somewhat equal play, I wouldn't complain about class imbalance.

 

[Aothan]

well, I'm not saying some classes cannot be played, but rather that practically all classes can be played in accordance with the emphases they have in their area of the skill tree. In other words, it is, so to speak, possible to 'rp' the classes, there is no strict limit to playability. Rather some builds which are typically defined by incorporating various nodes outside of a character's ambit tend to determine feasibility. But it is not an inability for 'classes' to be played as they are, rather that some builds just define what is then largely regarded as feasible. However without really being familiar with the Duelist I'm not sure how well they can manage as a primarily independent class.

so, we don't appear to be disagreeing, in fact this discussion stemmed from the idea that the passive tree was redundant or moot in respect of specific class openings, whereas as it is all classes can more or less play effectively, and I would also say it is reasonably possible for some classes to play in theme with their skills, without a strict need to diverge into additional class areas.

 

[Saark]

My post was more to reply to the dinosaur than you. I totally agree that the builds being played kind of determine the most played classes by default. I'd even argue that the league the characters are played in also have a huge impact on the classes being played, and only after those 2 variables have been satisfied or ignored the strength of the tree itself is defining what you play.

And then you have people like me, who really only play witch because I just like the way she plays and shes not a naive blonde girl or a lesbian.

Duelist has always been somewhat ignored for every single build, because everything melee related wants to go into the marauder and templar tree, unless its a purely physical build which are very very rare. And then you have those that deal with projectiles, and those want to get the ranger/shadow projectile nodes, so those usually start as a ranger or if its a crit build even start as shadow. I played a melee oros sacrifice frostblades build in warbands, and even then playing as a ranger was more feasible than playing a duelist. :/

 

[T. Reich]

Duelist used to be a good starting choice for LA (along with mara) in OB, before the aura meganerf. He was also good choice for a BoR (facebreaker) and dual-wield WoE melee char for a while, but that's it I think.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

You're only proving me right, first because the Witch is indeed the most used class (why even post the chart), second because the classes actually matter, which was my point all along. Templar is probably in hardcore a lot because of his life nodes.

 

[Aothan]

Templar does readily combine a lot of useful defensive abilities and easy branching options (though somewhat ironically I rarely travel to the Scion's Wheel of Life area) including life, armour and elemental resistances.

 

[Saark]

Classes matter in a sense that if you want to minmax by the point you reach a certain level you have "limited" options. Remember my whispering ice example? I am currently playing a full fire conversion scion at lvl 85. I could also start the build from witch, the very exact same build, with lvl 85. I could play it as shadow at lvl 90 with more dmg nodes, and I could play it as templar at lvl 92 with more AoE nodes. Thats how little classes actually matter in a build, and thats not just anecdotal. Since the starting nodes are much stronger than the ones readily available in the tree, you will oftentimes see people travel to the starting nodes of another class, which means you can at least play a build as 2 classes, and with little additional point investment as a third. I dont know what exactly it is you're complaining about, unless you want every class to be exactly the same.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

I don't know who you think is complaining, expect those who complain about what I'm saying. If you want to play chaos arrows you go ranger or Duelist/Marauder/Templar if you want a tanky point blank bow for the lulz.

 

[Aothan]

Templar is the protagonist of the story

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

I hope so. He's the only one with a proper voice actor and a design that isn't puke inducing.

 

[Saark]

That's not a templar, he's wearing pants.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Fuck this gay Warband Bullshit. FUCK THIS GAY WARBAND BULLSHIT.

It should have a disclaimer : WARNING PAST CRUEL ACT 4 WARBANDS WILL MURDER YOU IN LESS THAN A SECOND, AN ACTUAL SECOND.

I don't know if they did it because the game stagnated and the only ones staying are the nerds with specific items they bought outside the game at the ready for each new characters, or if they think it's supposed to be stimulating, but it's not. It's fucking not. What this encouraged me to do is that I've been grinding ledge like a retard 20 times in a row now, with felshrine, just to get 1 level every 1 hour to hopefully get nodes strong enough in the passives, and earn enough disposable income to craft resistances onto my equipment that I'm tempted to throw away every time I find something better.

One band, BOOM FLICKER STRIKE LIGHTNING UR DEAD. Not even the time to move my fingers to the potions. Health goes down instantly. Even if I go through the painful dullfest, after dying once, of changing all my rings for lightning resist I picked along the way, killing my dps and removing half my skills, I die in 2 seconds, while spamming potions to stay alive.

I won't even talk about how I've been killing every important bosses since cruel by dying 15 times and rushing them and just making sure I had grinded to the next level before. Because there's no fucking other way, you die in seconds, even with my best effort at using dash, decoy totems and backstabbing. Better just get them through attrition.

The game wasn't that hard when I first played through all of it in 2012, not even Dominus in 2013 was that impossible. Did the remaining players get so inflated by uber gears that they had to up the difficulty for them?

 

[Aothan]

speaking of spontaneous events, just about every time I log on now (which is rare for the reason mentioned) the game freezes, which, in Tempest means I need to log out asap

I've been thinking of adding Elemental Weakness to Herald of Storm alongside Increased Duration and increased skill duration skill nodes, seems like it could be among the most effective of 'spells' in the game

 

[Saark]

Depends on your build obviously, but most builds go for assassins or warlords mark as the go-to curse on hit with heralds. Free power charges+crit or warlords mark for the defensive aspect is always good, and depending on your build and the maps/mobs you run into, ele weakness may not be a significant dps boost.

Remember that while penetration gems are applied onto monsters current resistance (which can never be more than 75% and against capped/overcapped mobs therefore provide over a 100% dmg increase), curses/elemental equilibrium apply to their total resistances. If you run plenty of highlevel maps with +res or endurance charges, or happen to have elemental resists mods on magic/rare monsters, EW will oftentimes do literally nothing since those mobs are severely overcapped. And everything that isn't capped won't take that much more damage even after EW+penetration, not even close to what crit/frenzy charges will net you.
This all applies to single-element builds though, most melee builds have a decent amount of fire and cold-dmg, with the new phys>lightning gem they may even have that too, consequently EW might be a better choice there. Or just have the CoH assassins mark setup for the trash mobs, while you self-cast EW onto tougher enemies.

I personally like to play cold builds, with a 4l herald of ice - curse on hit - assassins mark - ice bite. Free bonuscrit/critdmg, power and frenzy charges, and all that for a measly 36% reservation.