Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[deuxhero]

I never said the early D&D's system of each weapon working better or worse against certain armor was a bad idea, just that making armor DR is a bad idea. In fact, making armor DR would make light, anti-armor weapons worse against armor.

 

[Sergiu64]

Depends on how you do it. Say you have a high damage but a low penetration weapon like Scimitar. Say it does 10 damage when it penetrates but 1 damage when it does not. Now compare it to a poignard which does 6 damage when it penetrates and 1 damage when it does not. Now use both on something that Scimitar can't penetrate but poignard can like Scalemail - suddenly the weapon that was almost twice as good is six times worse.

 

[Cael]

Just go Fallout way and have both DR and DT and AC. It is a very neat way of making various types of armour useful, but is best in a cRPG and not a PnP one.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, I thought the original Fallouts had the best armor system ever.
Just the crit's penetration was maybe a tad too strong sometimes.

 

[hivemind]

why are there no torrents of this game

 

[Efe]

scene groups couldnt keep up with the speed of patching..
that said, there are torrents of this at least up to 2.0.6

 

[hivemind]

wish I had 35 pounds to spare fuck

 

[Cael]

Yeah, I thought the original Fallouts had the best armor system ever.
Just the crit's penetration was maybe a tad too strong sometimes.

Crit penetration was insane, but not as bad as certain weapons getting the -80%DT perk. That made armour into a bad joke.

 

[Yosharian]

why are there no torrents of this game

You really are an obnoxious cunt, aren't you.

 

[hivemind]

i try my best

 

[drgames]

why are there no torrents of this game

There are torrents everywhere, even tho I paid the game.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

For what Attack bonuses should you build your character on unfair? I've seen some enemies have ~50 attack bonus (like adamant golems).
Should you take them into account when building tanks, or they are just outliers?

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, its good to have about 70 AC and 45 Touch AC.
A little less with defensive buffs can also be manageable, I guess.

Mirror Image is a huge game-changer for example.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Yeah, its good to have about 70 AC and 45 Touch AC.
A little less with defensive buffs can also be manageable, I guess.

Mirror Image is a huge game-changer for example.

70 AC means that regular enemy will have 50 AB against full armor and 35 against touch AC?
What kind of enemies are they? Wild Hunt?

 

[Haplo]

Only ~27 AB vs Touch AC.

Wild Hunt - particularly the Monarchs are dangerous, Ghastly Guardians, Summer/Autumn Golems, Wilderavn

 

[Cyberarmy]

So I started as a kineticist and pretty happy with it so far. I'm born a pyromaniac so I went fire and now everything just burns, also made Valerie into kin.knight and now she has a rocking flaming sword <3
I guess earth should be my second element? Should I dip into any other classes like 1 vivi/km for sneak attacks?
Want to dual/change class other party members a bit too El,archer for Ekun is non brainer, maybe 2 hander for Amiri. Any suggestions about other members?

 

[Haplo]

Earth for OP Deadly Earth. Although, it is an unbalanced ability that can kinda spoil your game.
Sneak attacks aren't that great, many form infusions won't benefit. Also you don't want to dilute the class much.
Typical dips include 1 monk for much higher AC (typically coupled with Water Shield - particularly on Kinetic Blade users) or 1 Thug to make enemies run away from your Dreadful Carnage triggers (its a bonus feat/Wild Talent Fire Kineticists can pick very early).

 

[Haplo]

Graveyard of the Giants is a decent upgrade for Ovinrbaane. 2 more AB, as it gets rid of the Oversized penalty. If you can get Rage cast on yourself (or cast it yourself, if you use Spell Blending), it actually becomes a +7 large bastard sword. Can't cast under Rage, but it goes well with Transformation, which blocks casting too, so.. meh. Also same duration as Sense Vitals, so these 3 work together nicely. Plus Arcane Accuracy if someone needs to die here & now.
No Speed is a pity, but you should have plenty of Haste/Celerity by then.
Shame it deals bonus Cold damage... and everyone's Cold immune come end game.

 

[Sergiu64]

Sneak attacks aren't that great, many form infusions won't benefit. Also you don't want to dilute the class much.

Really? I just got Nok Nok and he's out dpsing my sword saint main by like 2 to 1 ratio (Reg is out dpsing him too actually - since he's got a better weapon due to not being restricted to a single damn weapon type) - and Nok Nok is two levels lower then my main. Except for fights where SS turns on the max hit stuff, but that runs out real quick.

 

[Haplo]

This concerned Kineticist advice. I guess sneak attacks can be nice for kin. blade users - mainly dual-wielding, but those are pretty niche.
Anyway, you trade d6 damage per 2 levels that requires no trigger confitions (like flanked or flat-footed) applies to all form infusions vs situational d6 per 2 levels with necessary trigger conditions and possible immunity (elementals, ghosts without ghost-touch).

And on a more general note, I feel that Str and crit based damage is much more reliable then sneak attacks. I certainly did not feel that its inferior damage-wise.
You should certainly use weapon size increasing buffs, though.

 

[ColinMacLaren]

I read a lot more wikis, tried a couple of builds with a character editor and decided I want to go with a party setup like this. I spent about 20h last week on getting to now the mechanics and get a overview of all the spells and abilities. Since this is a CRPG game I want to have the full builds of the main character and all companions figured out before I start the game so I don't gimp myself and suffer later. I am going to play on normal difficulty with enemies set to 1.0 strength, normal and regular Crits.

Party:
- Valerie Tower Shield Specialist / Thug/ Stalwart Defender (Tank). Not as effective as Vivi/Monk dips but at least it makes somewhat sense RP-wise.
- Linzi Full Bard Support/Control
- Octavia Rogue/Wizard/AT Nuker
- Jaethal 2nd Row DD/Support

This leaves 1 DD spot for Ekundayo/Jubliost/Amiri. Ekun and Jubilost seems the most reasonable for their resting abilities.

For the main character I just cannot decide.

1) Assimar DEX Sword Saint with 1 level dip into Scaled Fist. Seems reasonable for all the AC stacking he can get with DEX/INT/CHA, self buffs, Dodge, Crane line, Wings while still doing some damage with fencing grace.
Will this work, even if I don't use the +5AC protector's robe? Will the high DEX be enough t rarely get caught fla-footed or will I must get wrecked in melee because without DEX and Dodge armor this character is dead meat. Also he is rather redundant since Regognar could pretty much fill the same role.

2) Sorcerer/Scaled Fist/DD tank
Another unarmored tank, be a nuker mid game and use dragon form endgame
Looks fun, but I read focusing too much on caster DPS will make you suffer later in the game and I don't know if he will hit anything with those Spell DCs.

I won't have a dedicated healer this way. While I do understand that healing is a trap in this game and your are better off not getting hit in the first place, eventually you will get hit from spells/failed DCs/natural 20s. So isn't a cleric mandatory, so he can heal up during resting? Only healing 1 HP/ 8 hours without healing spells left sounds really low for a game where time limits are everywhere.

3) Tank/Cleric
A dedicated cleric for buffs/protection spells and healing that is also able to tank would make the most sense, since these are the roles that are really missing in my party lineup above. However, I read that melee clerics are a trap since they are always going to suck AB/AC wise.

3)a) Ecclesitheurge of Gozreh https://www.yekbot.com/pathfinder-kingmaker-mercenary-build/
Using the pet to tank while he stands back for nuking/healing/buffing.
Might work early game bug the pet supposedly cannot tank later without Monster Tactician levels. Is considered a poor man's Sylvan Sorcerer, so probably not all that effective.

b) Melee Cleric. Is Full Plate + Tower Shield any good? Is something like a Crusader of Abbadar viable, because a melee cleric is going to be feat starved anyway? Or do you absolutely have to go lawful good monk dip? Then an Ecclesitheurge is probably the better choice, since we are not going to wear armor anyway.

3c) Shifter druid. Traditional Mok Dip is certainly an requirement, as always, but should be tanky enough then. Sounds great in theory, but he wont do much healing, since he cannot spontaneously cast healing spells.
Noob question: Does the 3AC dodge bonus from dragon/aasimar wings still apply when shape shifted?

 

[Haplo]

1) Assimar DEX Sword Saint with 1 level dip into Scaled Fist. Seems reasonable for all the AC stacking he can get with DEX/INT/CHA, self buffs, Dodge, Crane line, Wings while still doing some damage with fencing grace.
Will this work, even if I don't use the +5AC protector's robe? Will the high DEX be enough t rarely get caught fla-footed or will I must get wrecked in melee because without DEX and Dodge armor this character is dead meat. Also he is rather redundant since Regognar could pretty much fill the same role.

Yeah, it would work. You can get Censor's Robes regardless (2 AC) or, if neutral, also Arbiter Robes (3 AC). 2/3 AC difference won't break the build. Protector robes are late Act IV and the game is pretty easy by then.
But why would you gimp yourself by going Dex? Since you're dipping monk, you'll be sufficiently tanky even on a Str/hybrid build (tested on Hard, should be a yawnfest on normal). I'd only go Dex SS on a purist build that doesn't want to multiclass.
You'll sometimes get caught flat-footed (prior to SS level 19, if you get that high - afterwards - never), but later on adding Int to Initiative rolls certainly helps a lot. As does Mirror Image, which means only a few enemies will even hit you, as well as it will absorb most of the attacks under flat-footed.

And no, Regognar definitely doesn't fill the same role. I mean buffs are the only thing that protects Regognar from quick demise. He's an offtank/DD. An SS/Monk actually has great AC PLUS buffs and can easily main tank. You don't really need Valerie as a tank then. Could do something like a Kinetic Knight or another build for her.

I won't have a dedicated healer this way. While I do understand that healing is a trap in this game and your are better off not getting hit in the first place, eventually you will get hit from spells/failed DCs/natural 20s. So isn't a cleric mandatory, so he can heal up during resting? Only healing 1 HP/ 8 hours without healing spells left sounds really low for a game where time limits are everywhere.

Replace Jaethal with an actual cleric like Tristan/Harrim. You will have plenty of healing from Channel energy, as well as faster access to all the protective buffs you will want. Inquisitor is a weird class that does a few things but excels at nothing IMO. Also healing her is a pain. Alternatively make her a ranged Bard and get a cleric instead of Linzi.

 

[Lambach]

Question mostly directed to Haplo :

What is the benefit of a Sword Saint over a Knife Master/Vivisectionist (in terms of a high DPS, nigh-untouchable tank)? I know you keep demonstrating how SS can go Super Saiyan for insane bursts, but wouldn't KM/Vivi's bajillion d8's per round in every single encounter be more of a benefit overall?

 

[Haplo]

Well, a Sword Saint is certainly a significantly better tank (Int to AC, Mirror Image, better Will save). As you noticed he can burst higher and he doesn't rely on sneak attacks to deal damage - can act alone, without flanking (flanking bonuses are still nice, but sometimes you want to spread out - charge or protect squishies), can do much higher damage to crit immunes, doesn't rely that much on Shatter Defenses (which is still great for him, but some enemies are immune to fear).
Additionally always has the right tools for the job. Like you encounter crit immune elder elementals with 15 DR - no problem, SpellStrike with Shocking Grasp will still burst them down effectively; you meet some werevolves with DR Silver/+3 or Fey with DR Cold Iron/+3 and only have a +1 weapon - no problem, give up Keen, enchant it to +3 and ignore their DR; golems with Adamantine/+4 - same; you meet ghosts/specters - no problem, enchant Ghost Touch and deal full damage and even land crits on them (even sneak attacks, if you're capable).

Guess it depends what you prefer: Knife/Vivi will have a little higher sustained DPS and worse defenses, SS will have better defenses and much higher burst + problem solving ability.

Plus if you consider the Turn Based mod, mobility becomes really important there. It's much more beneficial to fight Enlarged/with increased reach, otherwise you waste more actions on movement and end up attacking only 1/round. Knife Master with its short range would suck in that mode IMO.
And if you go Str SS with huge weapons, you can also capitalize on Vital Strike chain as Standard actions. But that has a pretty niche application otherwise.

 

[ColinMacLaren]

Replace Jaethal with an actual cleric like Tristan/Harrim. You will have plenty of healing from Channel energy, as well as faster access to all the protective buffs you will want. Inquisitor is a weird class that does a few things but excels at nothing IMO. Also healing her is a pain. Alternatively make her a ranged Bard and get a cleric instead of Linzi.

Tristan/Harrim seem liek the two mleast interesting characters for me, gameplay- and story wise.