Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

Now you're suggesting multiclassing a Bard? Come on now, be serious.

 

[Shadenuat]

 

[Haplo]

Either way, EK is not a very good prestige class.

It's pretty good at what it does.
But you have to wait for the capstone quite long to really enjoy it... and you don't get great stuff in-between.

 

[Shadenuat]

It's good even for some feats and qualifying for Feats and AB, similarly to DD. (but DD is only useful for Melee STR)

 

[Haplo]

generally speaking if you go dex on anything without sneak then instead of haploing for 750 damage u'll just do 70 damage. because it doesn't scale with best buffs in the game

Haha, "haploing", good one.

Thank you, Shadenaut, you've made my day!

 

[Haplo]

Why would you not go Dex on this character?

generally speaking if you go dex on anything without sneak then instead of haploing for 750 damage u'll just do 70 damage. because it doesn't scale with best buffs in the game

Akshually, a counter-intuitive secret is to still use Legendary Proportions, even on a Dex build. You will loose 2 AB (as opposed to gain 1 on a Str build) and 1 AC, but your damage will be like 1/3 higher (and you should have more min-maxed starting spread). If you use a solid weapon, of course, none of those d4 needles, d6 is pretty bad too. An Estoc would be nice, though. Dueling sword would work also. Or longsword/falcata if magus (=free offhand) with slashing/fencing grace.
But I guess 95% of the players will miss that.

 

[Shadenuat]

Redeemer I've been told for dex for slashing grace is good.

But I play rogue dungeon so I don't rely on weapon picks or even legendaries (dinosaur bones cost moneys and never fall from enemies)

 

[Sergiu64]

Training nearly complete.

dmg images were here

...I have trouble understanding why some people seem to think they should multiclass their Sword Saints to do more damage.

Impressive, how was the character doing at earlier levels though?

 

[Haplo]

Training nearly complete.

dmg images were here

...I have trouble understanding why some people seem to think they should multiclass their Sword Saints to do more damage.

Impressive, how was the character doing at earlier levels though?

He was doing very well. First levels slightly squishy - but not moreso then other characters. Challenge basically ended with him getting Mirror Image at level 4 (already had it at the Stag Lord fort).
Strong martial-wise and Spell Combat Intensified Empowered Maximized Shocking Grasp Spellstrike provides huge burst - and also an easy solution to DR sponge mobs, such as elementals.

Kinda had to wait for a long time to upgrade the Flaming Bastard +1 to Ovinrbaane, had no luck with Oppressor. Not such a huge deal for a magus, who can self-enchant his weapons (so you always have a response to DR). Then, after finally getting Ovinrbaane in mid chapter IV, was practically "cut-off" from magus signature Spell Combat ability for a chapter, as moving back to a sad +1 was... kinda difficult.
But then I finally got Ravenna's to pair with Ovinrbaane with and all is well.

I will admit Vital Strike is getting very little use though. And it makes very little sense to rush it.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Hello once again, everyone. A quick question, or rather request, since I don't have access to the game right now: if someone takes a Sylvan Sorcerer, chooses a pet, then multiclasses with Feyspeaker, NOT choose a pet, will the pet from the Sorcerer level with both classes, or just the Sorcerer? The in-game description is unclear, since it talks about leveling with every "druid level". If someone could check this in-game, I'd be really grateful.

no.

Pet levels stack ONLY IF YOU SELECT PET FOR ALL CLASSES INvolved.

If you want to go caster/ pet select one class and stick with it all the way to 20. Tjat is just how patjfinder works.

 

[glass blackbird]

I mean all you really need is wizards.

A note for the people above, though: you can multiclass and keep a full level pet if you pick other classes that also have a pet, or if you take Boon Companion and keep your non-pet levels to a maximum of 4 (Boon Companion makes up for 4 non-growth levels). But yeah, multiclassing a spellcaster is often unwise because you lose spell growth and that's the whole reason you take those classes.

 

[TT1]

Do we have a good build for sorcerer? I was thinking in start a dragon bloodline, but I am open to suggestions.

 

[Shadenuat]

be a sorcerer

uuhh

that's it.

bloodlines I like:
sage - the dc god
sylvan - the noobmaster
dragon - elemental damage
earth elemental - transforms any elemental damage to acid
fey - +2 DC on all Enchant spells from just level 1.

 

[Haplo]

Could go Arcane Trickster if looking for damage.

 

[hell bovine]

Serpentine sorcerer 1 / enchanter might be interesting. Serpentine has been bugged since release, so it's not worth going all the way, but their bloodline power should apply to the wizzie spells when multiclassed.

 

[deuxhero]

Found a tomb in Chapter 2 and visited since it was near the path I was going on for the DLC companion's quest. Interesting dungeon with a good trap that you won't just skip by savescumming.

Spoiler

I encountered a group of bandits at the start. I could have scared them off, but I killed them for loot (+2 crossbow, some other stuff). Condemning people from stealing from a tomb then robbing it yourself is a bit weird, but it works here (at least in my head). I didn't kill them for being graverobbers, but for being merobbers: This tomb is in my barony and it's my resource to be consumed in my preferred manor. Whoever made the tomb doesn't own it because property claims expire well short of 11,000+ years (Not explicitly stated, but it has cyclops empire stuff, meaning pre-Earthfall).

Anyways, onto the dungeon. While I did have a save at the start of the dungeon (though even if you aren't that diligent, the number of autosaves the game makes should prevent even a less cautious player from being trapped), I appreciated that trapping yourself in the dungeon isn't immediately obvious since the door closes a room away and after a not that challenging, but not trivial, fight (pic related, showing how battlefield control really does control the battlefield).

After this fight you have to deal with much more deadly Skeletal Archers as you are trapped in. A noticible difficulty spike like this really sells the trap: If the immediate ambush was that hard I would have reloaded and left before triggering it, but if the follow up was only that hard I would have clobbered them and not really been as doomed as I was, too much a spike and I would have just said fuck that and reloaded. I was about ready to call shenanigans for some undead HD1/Fighter 4 intelligent undead apparently having Point Blank Master (they don't take AoOs for firing ranged weapons in melee), but they just barely qualify for it (take Weapon Specialization as the 4th level fighter bonus feat and PBM as the general feat for having 5 HD). These guys are really deadly, but fortunately I had a (not all that) cunning plan: Go forward with one, high initiative, character that runs away after provoking the enemies and lures the enemies toward a corner with the rest of my team behind it.

I couldn't kill the final "Lonely Undead" (he twice got a crit and instantgibbed my full health bloodrager!), let alone have the resources to explore the basement, but fortunately I could just... walk around him. Weirdly low awareness zone, but I'll take it. Managed to escape the tomb with no spells left on several of my casters. Fortunately my capital was near enough I could rest up back there (my group got tried on the way, but the rest of the journey took less time than hunting would). Out of this whole ordeal I got a level on my mercenaries (who are slightly behind my MC/companions due to lack of prologue XP) and a bunch of nice loot including my first pair of robes in the game. Sadly the robes are useless to me (boost cold spells, but I don't know any). I'll definitely be back.

(For the record I'm playing on a custom difficulty with everything set to normal. Why this isn't a default option I'll never know)

Also realized the quest to recruit Octavia and what'shisname is chapter 1 only. Meh, something to do my second playthrough.


edit: TT1
That depends on what you want your sorcerer to do. There's tons of things a sorcerer can do, and which you want them to do depends on the rest of your party. Mine is a Sylvan Sorcerer that buffs the animal companion before battle and throws around save or die to control the battlefield and neutralize strong enemies during it. You could do a Paladin 2/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple/Eldritch Knight for a magic heavy gish that can throw around debuffs on their melee attacks with curnogen smash. Emperyl/Zen Archer is also an option. Sorcerer is a fairly versatile class.

 

[TT1]

I'd like to be at distance, using elemental damage to blow stuff. I know that Draconic bloodline could be good for this, but I could not find a good detailed build, so far.

Some people say that Arcane bloodline is the most powerful, but I'd be willing to sacrifice some power for fun.

 

[Daidre]

No, he has unique version of summoning spells as class ability, they last longer but does not allow multiple casts. Normal spells in spellbooks are not affected by it.

 

[Desiderius]

I mean all you really need is wizards.

A note for the people above, though: you can multiclass and keep a full level pet if you pick other classes that also have a pet, or if you take Boon Companion and keep your non-pet levels to a maximum of 4 (Boon Companion makes up for 4 non-growth levels). But yeah, multiclassing a spellcaster is often unwise because you lose spell growth and that's the whole reason you take those classes.

Pets only lvl 3 for every 4 char lvls even for pet classes, so if you want a fully leveled pet you need boon + no dips. Late pet classes will be -3 lvls at end regardless.

 

[Desiderius]

I on purpose took some shitty feats to qualify for new Swordlord. I looked upon new Swordlord and weeped. What a shit on a stick class.

How about dex SS4, Barb2 Motherless bite tripper + dirty tricker - gets uncanny dodge to charge in, doesn't need much CHA or feats to intimidate, fighting defensively/combat expertise penalty ameliorated by Swordlord (avoiding need for crane). Stack INT and DEX. A lot of bonus AC and AB once you land a hit/crit and SS can help with that. If this were pvp, denying competence, morale, and insight bonuses would be huge. Not sure how well that plays here.

 

[Shadenuat]

Nobody needs much CHA to intimidate, a huge dude with str to intimidate and some endgame items sends endgame enemies running; lowering penalties for fighting defensively is cool I guess if you abhore monk dips as I do, but all these abilities are not perfect when it comes saving yourself from slay living concealment ignoring arrows to the face. SS/Duelist at least adds INT to AC twice so you end up fairly protected most of the time. Enemies don't really use competence/morale/insight I think, like there is one part of the game where you fight bards but they're super weak and die to left click. improved dazzling is cool I guess but you need time to apply additional -1 bonuses. and generally I just don't find dex bros that damaging.

If you're going to do this anyway I would probably make a mercenary later. Save a feat on adding dex to damage Swordlord gives you.

It is funny how this is the only class who gets Improved Expertise in a way. This should be a standard feat and fuck crane styles and monks.

 

[Desiderius]

On the off chance Shatter Confidence stacks with itself you could use it to get saving throws down far enough that even Bards could stick something.

As for those arrows you’re worried about, Swordlords do keep a hand free.

It’s a nice class for those who enjoy avoiding the brokenish/overdone (vivi/unchained monk/rogue frontloading).

 

[Desiderius]

Scroll Savant + Scroll Vender could open up a hell of a lot of potential spell slots.

 

[Shadenuat]

On the off chance Shatter Confidence stacks with itself you could use it to get saving throws down far enough that even Bards could stick something

Bards are actually not so bad at CC as people may think. They have some unique spells which ignore problems of Enchant - they only allow save once (Cacophonous Call) and do not allow to break the spell; do not count as Paralysis (Hideous Laughter, Overwhelming Grief) so ignore resistance to Paralysis, and well, Greater Shout is not bad as other Sonic ignoring most damage resistance and spell resistance (even Greater Golems don't have Sonic resist). I even had an idea to combine Fey Sorc (+2 to compulsion DC on level 1, cantrips) + rogue + bard + AT to brew a sonic caster but the idea is a bit dumb because of how competent full level Bards at combat are anyway.

Of course Owlcats have a habit of putting Iron Will x2 on everything up to random wolves but in Rogue dungeon, a fully grown Fey Sorc Enchanter with Overwhelming Presence shuts down most trash permanently no registration ez.

Scroll Savant + Scroll Vender could open up a hell of a lot of potential spell slots.

Sadly Savant doesn't add their Spell Focus and probably many other good things to casts from scrolls.

(vivi/unchained monk/rogue frontloading).

As for me, I was running a bit Thassilonian Necromancer and you know, it is not as bad as I thought. Necromancer drops 2 of the most underwhelming magic schools - Abjuration (no mage duels, no Globe of Invulnerability - anyone can copy it and you mostly just use protection from elements) and Enchant (duh). At the same time Necromancy is definitely better early game than Enchant. Level 1 Fear is HD6, and level 2 Fear is 30 feet AOE (!) and also HD6 so carries nice. But that is because Tenebrous Depths is not an open map and so they have no place to run. Catching them is still pain in the ass but with 3+ melees and Haste killing all the Unfair koboldz is ez.

Also Blind is goddam underrated spell. It is Fortutide, Permanent, long reach Curse. Literally any cheato fey spider becomes completely harmless with just that.
Of course I also picked all the other good spells. Then there's Pernicious Poison which just gives -4 against Poison no save. And Stinking Cloud is poison. Throw Reach rod into this and you permastun dem.
Although why is there a poison debuff on level 2 when Wizard/Sorc have no Poison spells on level 1&2 is a fucking question.

Man I really love low level gameplay of D&D.

Rest of my party are classes I mostly didn't play yet:
- Tactical Leader with Community Domain (early healz, support, bow);
- Eldritch Scion 9 / Paladin 11
- TSS/Thug Dwarf with Dwarven axe
- TH Fighter/Sensei
- Eldritch Archer which I am not sure why this class exists aside from nice ability to buff bows and why shouldn't I just multi him into AT (but I won't because whatever).

 

[Desiderius]

Bards are actually not so bad at CC as people may think.

Yes, that was the joke. Bard is my favorite class. Almost required for Varnhold DLC. Probably good thing Lingering is bugged on Archeologist or I’d be
dipping that on every toon like it was Vivi or something.

The save once thing is now less of a problem with Coup though. Held mobs can be couped, not called ones.

Sadly Savant doesn't add their Spell Focus and probably many other good things to casts from scrolls.

The slots I was thinking of were those of long lasting buffs. I’ve been having Tristian use scrolls for Delay Poison/Resist Energy since they’re situational and slotting Magical Vestments instead and extended Archon’s at
four, for instance.

(vivi/unchained monk/rogue frontloading).




As for me, I was running a bit Thassilonian Necromancer and you know, it is not as bad as I thought. Necromancer drops 2 of the most underwhelming magic schools - Abjuration (no mage duels, no Globe of Invulnerability - anyone can copy it and you mostly just use protection from elements) and Enchant (duh). At the same time Necromancy is definitely better early game than Enchant. Level 1 Fear is HD6, and level 2 Fear is 30 feet AOE (!) and also HD6 so carries nice. But that is because Tenebrous Depths is not an open map and so they have no place to run. Catching them is still pain in the ass but with 3+ melees and Haste killing all the Unfair koboldz is ez.

Also Blind is goddam underrated spell. It is Fortutide, Permanent, long reach Curse. Literally any cheato fey spider becomes completely harmless with just that.
Of course I also picked all the other good spells. Then there's Pernicious Poison which just gives -4 against Poison no save. And Stinking Cloud is poison. Throw Reach rod into this and you permastun dem.
Although why is there a poison debuff on level 2 when Wizard/Sorc have no Poison spells on level 1&2 is a fucking question.

Man I really love low level gameplay of D&D.

Rest of my party are classes I mostly didn't play yet:
- Tactical Leader with Community Domain (early healz, support, bow);
- Eldritch Scion 9 / Paladin 11
- TSS/Thug Dwarf with Dwarven axe
- TH Fighter/Sensei
- Eldritch Archer which I am not sure why this class exists aside from nice ability to buff bows and why shouldn't I just multi him into AT (but I won't because whatever).

I like to play Octavia as Eldritch Archer. Makes her less one dimensional. She gets the oversized bow the broken black archer gave her when he retired. The challenge of climbing out of that -5 AB hole (-7 with Rapid Shot) is an interesting one.

Currently R4, W1, EA5 on current playthrough. EA6 (gets to use wands at level, snowball is nice) then W2 then not sure.

Vanguard looks underrated. I had Maegar go Vanguard in the DLC and it worked well. You can study, charge, then share and the action economy works well.

Agree on Blind, finally figured it out this playthrough. Good v. archers, competes with Sonic Burst v. casters where the interrupt is nice.