Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Desiderius]

On the off chance Shatter Confidence stacks with itself you could use it to get saving throws down far enough that even Bards could stick something.

As for those arrows you’re worried about, Swordlords do keep a hand free.

It’s a nice class for those who enjoy avoiding the brokenish/overdone (vivi/unchained monk/rogue frontloading).

 

[Desiderius]

Scroll Savant + Scroll Vender could open up a hell of a lot of potential spell slots.

 

[Shadenuat]

On the off chance Shatter Confidence stacks with itself you could use it to get saving throws down far enough that even Bards could stick something

Bards are actually not so bad at CC as people may think. They have some unique spells which ignore problems of Enchant - they only allow save once (Cacophonous Call) and do not allow to break the spell; do not count as Paralysis (Hideous Laughter, Overwhelming Grief) so ignore resistance to Paralysis, and well, Greater Shout is not bad as other Sonic ignoring most damage resistance and spell resistance (even Greater Golems don't have Sonic resist). I even had an idea to combine Fey Sorc (+2 to compulsion DC on level 1, cantrips) + rogue + bard + AT to brew a sonic caster but the idea is a bit dumb because of how competent full level Bards at combat are anyway.

Of course Owlcats have a habit of putting Iron Will x2 on everything up to random wolves but in Rogue dungeon, a fully grown Fey Sorc Enchanter with Overwhelming Presence shuts down most trash permanently no registration ez.

Scroll Savant + Scroll Vender could open up a hell of a lot of potential spell slots.

Sadly Savant doesn't add their Spell Focus and probably many other good things to casts from scrolls.

(vivi/unchained monk/rogue frontloading).

As for me, I was running a bit Thassilonian Necromancer and you know, it is not as bad as I thought. Necromancer drops 2 of the most underwhelming magic schools - Abjuration (no mage duels, no Globe of Invulnerability - anyone can copy it and you mostly just use protection from elements) and Enchant (duh). At the same time Necromancy is definitely better early game than Enchant. Level 1 Fear is HD6, and level 2 Fear is 30 feet AOE (!) and also HD6 so carries nice. But that is because Tenebrous Depths is not an open map and so they have no place to run. Catching them is still pain in the ass but with 3+ melees and Haste killing all the Unfair koboldz is ez.

Also Blind is goddam underrated spell. It is Fortutide, Permanent, long reach Curse. Literally any cheato fey spider becomes completely harmless with just that.
Of course I also picked all the other good spells. Then there's Pernicious Poison which just gives -4 against Poison no save. And Stinking Cloud is poison. Throw Reach rod into this and you permastun dem.
Although why is there a poison debuff on level 2 when Wizard/Sorc have no Poison spells on level 1&2 is a fucking question.

Man I really love low level gameplay of D&D.

Rest of my party are classes I mostly didn't play yet:
- Tactical Leader with Community Domain (early healz, support, bow);
- Eldritch Scion 9 / Paladin 11
- TSS/Thug Dwarf with Dwarven axe
- TH Fighter/Sensei
- Eldritch Archer which I am not sure why this class exists aside from nice ability to buff bows and why shouldn't I just multi him into AT (but I won't because whatever).

 

[Desiderius]

Bards are actually not so bad at CC as people may think.

Yes, that was the joke. Bard is my favorite class. Almost required for Varnhold DLC. Probably good thing Lingering is bugged on Archeologist or I’d be
dipping that on every toon like it was Vivi or something.

The save once thing is now less of a problem with Coup though. Held mobs can be couped, not called ones.

Sadly Savant doesn't add their Spell Focus and probably many other good things to casts from scrolls.

The slots I was thinking of were those of long lasting buffs. I’ve been having Tristian use scrolls for Delay Poison/Resist Energy since they’re situational and slotting Magical Vestments instead and extended Archon’s at
four, for instance.

(vivi/unchained monk/rogue frontloading).




As for me, I was running a bit Thassilonian Necromancer and you know, it is not as bad as I thought. Necromancer drops 2 of the most underwhelming magic schools - Abjuration (no mage duels, no Globe of Invulnerability - anyone can copy it and you mostly just use protection from elements) and Enchant (duh). At the same time Necromancy is definitely better early game than Enchant. Level 1 Fear is HD6, and level 2 Fear is 30 feet AOE (!) and also HD6 so carries nice. But that is because Tenebrous Depths is not an open map and so they have no place to run. Catching them is still pain in the ass but with 3+ melees and Haste killing all the Unfair koboldz is ez.

Also Blind is goddam underrated spell. It is Fortutide, Permanent, long reach Curse. Literally any cheato fey spider becomes completely harmless with just that.
Of course I also picked all the other good spells. Then there's Pernicious Poison which just gives -4 against Poison no save. And Stinking Cloud is poison. Throw Reach rod into this and you permastun dem.
Although why is there a poison debuff on level 2 when Wizard/Sorc have no Poison spells on level 1&2 is a fucking question.

Man I really love low level gameplay of D&D.

Rest of my party are classes I mostly didn't play yet:
- Tactical Leader with Community Domain (early healz, support, bow);
- Eldritch Scion 9 / Paladin 11
- TSS/Thug Dwarf with Dwarven axe
- TH Fighter/Sensei
- Eldritch Archer which I am not sure why this class exists aside from nice ability to buff bows and why shouldn't I just multi him into AT (but I won't because whatever).

I like to play Octavia as Eldritch Archer. Makes her less one dimensional. She gets the oversized bow the broken black archer gave her when he retired. The challenge of climbing out of that -5 AB hole (-7 with Rapid Shot) is an interesting one.

Currently R4, W1, EA5 on current playthrough. EA6 (gets to use wands at level, snowball is nice) then W2 then not sure.

Vanguard looks underrated. I had Maegar go Vanguard in the DLC and it worked well. You can study, charge, then share and the action economy works well.

Agree on Blind, finally figured it out this playthrough. Good v. archers, competes with Sonic Burst v. casters where the interrupt is nice.

 

[Shadenuat]

Well Vanguard bonus is just not that high compared to what bards, barbs, freeboters, paladins or casters generally provide. It's 1/2 and one teamwork feat. Although immunity to flat footed is neat.

 

[moraes]

Now that the turn-based mod is more mature I'll finally start playing this. What's a fun build for the main character, focusing on utility/skill checks and not becoming the most powerful being on the universe? I'm thinking of Archaeologist/Dragon Disciple or pure Monster Tactician.

 

[Desiderius]

Well Vanguard bonus is just not that high compared to what bards, barbs, freeboters, paladins or casters generally provide. It's 1/2 and one teamwork feat. Although immunity to flat footed is neat.

Untyped team boni don’t need to compare - they just all team up!

One teamwork feat = literally seizing the moment for big fights while saving low dex characters two feats otherwise.

Plus solid damage dealer in own right, rogue perception bonus with lvl available as slayer talent, a lot to like.

 

[Shadenuat]

You still compare them when building a balanced party. And the amount of micromanagement required to get your returns in investment. Like, I am playing Tacticool Leader now and sometimes just forget or feel like I can solve encounter by spells anyway without the share feats button. Not saying Slayer is not good but there is only so many buffs/debuffs you need on the single target until it just explodes.

Now that the turn-based mod is more mature I'll finally start playing this. What's a fun build for the main character, focusing on utility/skill checks and not becoming the most powerful being on the universe? I'm thinking of Archaeologist/Dragon Disciple or pure Monster Tactician.

I don't know why would you leave the party without one of the easiest and better buffs in the game stacked with one of the easiest spells in the game (lingering Competence song + Good Hope) to get some luck bonus (Prayer is +1 Luck btw, and all Divine self buffs are up to +3 or +6) and Uncanny Dodge (as DD you get blindsight and first hit in combat will hit your mirror image anyway).

Also, I think they still did not fix Archie Luck working with Lingering song.

 

[Desiderius]

You still compare them when building a balanced party. And the amount of micromanagement required to get your returns in investment. Like, I am playing Tacticool Leader now and sometimes just forget or feel like I can solve encounter by spells anyway without the share feats button. Not saying Slayer is not good but there is only so many buffs/debuffs you need on the single target until it just explodes.

So a vanguard, tactical leader, freebooter, kensai, bard, and hospitaler walk into a dungeon...

I don't know why would you leave the party without one of the easiest and better buffs in the game stacked with one of the easiest spells in the game (lingering Competence song + Good Hope) to get some luck bonus (Prayer is +1 Luck btw, and all Divine self buffs are up to +3 or +6) and Uncanny Dodge (as DD you get blindsight and first hit in combat will hit your mirror image anyway).

Also, I think they still did not fix Archie Luck working with Lingering song.

Yes, my Archie playthrough has been on hold for a long time anticipating this being fixed any patch now. BTW I’ve got Dorf helm on Val right now providing for our Good Hope (and crushing despair) needs.

 

[sser]

Would a Pure Paladin (presumably mostly a damage dealer) be alright or is it something that would be restrictive of other choices in game since you have to basically LARP a goodie?

 

[Haplo]

It's not overly restrictive/goodie, lawful good is more like "Crusade! Purge all evil" in this game.
So you should be fine on that front.

Paladin has some good points, is really deadly vs evil. Also a strong healer, particularly the Hospitaler variant. Only problem is that the main enemies in this game are chaotic fey, who are mostly not evil...
Makes Hospitaler more tempting.
Also makes a good Face and should be pretty effective at demoralizing opponents with his attacks (one option is to add 1 Thug to make them run away).

One serious weakness of the Paladin are physical defenses. Pure class he really lags behind in the AC department. Doesn't help that late game a lot of enemies target Touch AC and ignore his armor and shield.
A reach weapon and standing behind actual tanks may help.

 

[Desiderius]

High saves/invulnerabilities do eliminate a lot of headaches. High CHA means UMD mirror images/displacement/gr. invis etc to help vs bad touch.

 

[Haplo]

Unless you run the Craft Items mod, you need to get a bit lucky to get a Mirror Image wand from Irlene.

Displacement/Imp.Invisibility are kinda short at their base level (5/7 rounds?)... but these can be outsourced from other casters.

 

[Desiderius]

Unless you run the Craft Items mod, you need to get a bit lucky to get a Mirror Image wand from Irlene.

Displacement/Imp.Invisibility are kinda short at their base level (5/7 rounds?)... but these can be outsourced from other casters.

I was thinking new scroll vendor. Touchy also usually means squishy, so there’s also that.

 

[Haplo]

Given the amount of encounters in the game, getting 2-5 copies of Mirror Image scroll from the vendor isn't that helpful. I don't think think she sells any MI wands.

 

[Desiderius]

Obv theorycrafting since I’ve been trying to talk myself into Pal since the game came out. Even Archie 4 (Indiana Pal) can’t cast in Heavy Armor.

When I do it I’ll do MC Hospitaller in place of Cleric, but will need someone else for main tank, prolly Val TSS 9.

 

[Shadenuat]

So don't wear heavy armor. Get Heart of Valor in Chapter 2 and later you get Singing Steel armor & Heavenly Vest. As a Bard you can still use Heavy Shields.

 

[Desiderius]

Poor Blessed Plate... or even that 12AC on in the Tiefling House

 

[Shadenuat]

Blessed Path gives you less AC than Mithral +1 regardless. It's 11+1 vs 10+3.

Just in this game, not judging whole Pathfinder system or anything, imo all medium and heavy armor should provide extra AC against crit confirmation similar to what barb kit has. But for free and it should rise with its Enchantment level.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Blessed Path gives you less AC than Mithral +1 regardless. It's 11+1 vs 10+3.

Just in this game, not judging whole Pathfinder system or anything, imo all medium and heavy armor should provide extra AC against crit confirmation similar to what barb kit has. But for free and it should rise with its Enchantment level.

Paizo seem like they hate heavy armor to be honest. The rules around it are bad enough here but they are downright punitive in PF 2e. Like many nerds, they don't have any inkling about how Strength-based activities should work.

 

[Sergiu64]

The concept of armors giving more Ac instead of damage reduction have always been unrealistic.

 

[deuxhero]

Man, all these anti-evil outsider abilities in the game and I don't think I've run into a single one so far. I'm about to run off to finish the bloom quest. Is Linzi just exaggerating when she says I need to cheer up Ekun right now?

Sergiu64
No it isn't. An attack either penetrates or it doesn't. Energy can transfer through (which a system could solve with a secondary system), but armor's primary function is stopping attacks, not reducing their effectiveness.

 

[Yosharian]

Man, all these anti-evil outsider abilities in the game and I don't think I've run into a single one so far. I'm about to run off to finish the bloom quest. Is Linzi just exaggerating when she says I need to cheer up Ekun right now?

Sergiu64
No it isn't. An attack either penetrates or it doesn't. Energy can transfer through (which a system could solve with a secondary system), but armor's primary function is stopping attacks, not reducing their effectiveness.

Yes, Paladins are normally great for D&D CRPGS but Kingmaker seems unusual in how few enemies of this type it features.

 

[Yosharian]

RE: the relative weakness of Heavy Armor

What if wearing Heavy Armor (and possible Medium Armor) gave you inherent protection against incoming critical hits? For example, when wearing Heavy Armor, critical hit confirmation rolls have Disadvantage (roll D20 twice, take lowest result).

That could provide a nice bonus for Heavy Armor wearers.

 

[Sergiu64]

Sergiu64
No it isn't. An attack either penetrates or it doesn't. Energy can transfer through (which a system could solve with a secondary system), but armor's primary function is stopping attacks, not reducing their effectiveness.

If it didn't penetrate you still got hit with the force of the weapon. In these video games dudes can hit a guy in full plate as easily with a rapier or a dagger as with a mace - the attack bonus does not change between the weapons. How realistic is that?

Best system was probably in Darklands where non penetrating hits would do one eighth of the damage, partial penetration
was one third. Each armor and weapon had its default penetration.

But that type of realism isn't very balanced.