Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Shadenuat]

Well Vanguard bonus is just not that high compared to what bards, barbs, freeboters, paladins or casters generally provide. It's 1/2 and one teamwork feat. Although immunity to flat footed is neat.

 

[moraes]

Now that the turn-based mod is more mature I'll finally start playing this. What's a fun build for the main character, focusing on utility/skill checks and not becoming the most powerful being on the universe? I'm thinking of Archaeologist/Dragon Disciple or pure Monster Tactician.

 

[Desiderius]

Well Vanguard bonus is just not that high compared to what bards, barbs, freeboters, paladins or casters generally provide. It's 1/2 and one teamwork feat. Although immunity to flat footed is neat.

Untyped team boni don’t need to compare - they just all team up!

One teamwork feat = literally seizing the moment for big fights while saving low dex characters two feats otherwise.

Plus solid damage dealer in own right, rogue perception bonus with lvl available as slayer talent, a lot to like.

 

[Shadenuat]

You still compare them when building a balanced party. And the amount of micromanagement required to get your returns in investment. Like, I am playing Tacticool Leader now and sometimes just forget or feel like I can solve encounter by spells anyway without the share feats button. Not saying Slayer is not good but there is only so many buffs/debuffs you need on the single target until it just explodes.

Now that the turn-based mod is more mature I'll finally start playing this. What's a fun build for the main character, focusing on utility/skill checks and not becoming the most powerful being on the universe? I'm thinking of Archaeologist/Dragon Disciple or pure Monster Tactician.

I don't know why would you leave the party without one of the easiest and better buffs in the game stacked with one of the easiest spells in the game (lingering Competence song + Good Hope) to get some luck bonus (Prayer is +1 Luck btw, and all Divine self buffs are up to +3 or +6) and Uncanny Dodge (as DD you get blindsight and first hit in combat will hit your mirror image anyway).

Also, I think they still did not fix Archie Luck working with Lingering song.

 

[Desiderius]

You still compare them when building a balanced party. And the amount of micromanagement required to get your returns in investment. Like, I am playing Tacticool Leader now and sometimes just forget or feel like I can solve encounter by spells anyway without the share feats button. Not saying Slayer is not good but there is only so many buffs/debuffs you need on the single target until it just explodes.

So a vanguard, tactical leader, freebooter, kensai, bard, and hospitaler walk into a dungeon...

I don't know why would you leave the party without one of the easiest and better buffs in the game stacked with one of the easiest spells in the game (lingering Competence song + Good Hope) to get some luck bonus (Prayer is +1 Luck btw, and all Divine self buffs are up to +3 or +6) and Uncanny Dodge (as DD you get blindsight and first hit in combat will hit your mirror image anyway).

Also, I think they still did not fix Archie Luck working with Lingering song.

Yes, my Archie playthrough has been on hold for a long time anticipating this being fixed any patch now. BTW I’ve got Dorf helm on Val right now providing for our Good Hope (and crushing despair) needs.

 

[sser]

Would a Pure Paladin (presumably mostly a damage dealer) be alright or is it something that would be restrictive of other choices in game since you have to basically LARP a goodie?

 

[Haplo]

It's not overly restrictive/goodie, lawful good is more like "Crusade! Purge all evil" in this game.
So you should be fine on that front.

Paladin has some good points, is really deadly vs evil. Also a strong healer, particularly the Hospitaler variant. Only problem is that the main enemies in this game are chaotic fey, who are mostly not evil...
Makes Hospitaler more tempting.
Also makes a good Face and should be pretty effective at demoralizing opponents with his attacks (one option is to add 1 Thug to make them run away).

One serious weakness of the Paladin are physical defenses. Pure class he really lags behind in the AC department. Doesn't help that late game a lot of enemies target Touch AC and ignore his armor and shield.
A reach weapon and standing behind actual tanks may help.

 

[Desiderius]

High saves/invulnerabilities do eliminate a lot of headaches. High CHA means UMD mirror images/displacement/gr. invis etc to help vs bad touch.

 

[Haplo]

Unless you run the Craft Items mod, you need to get a bit lucky to get a Mirror Image wand from Irlene.

Displacement/Imp.Invisibility are kinda short at their base level (5/7 rounds?)... but these can be outsourced from other casters.

 

[Desiderius]

Unless you run the Craft Items mod, you need to get a bit lucky to get a Mirror Image wand from Irlene.

Displacement/Imp.Invisibility are kinda short at their base level (5/7 rounds?)... but these can be outsourced from other casters.

I was thinking new scroll vendor. Touchy also usually means squishy, so there’s also that.

 

[Haplo]

Given the amount of encounters in the game, getting 2-5 copies of Mirror Image scroll from the vendor isn't that helpful. I don't think think she sells any MI wands.

 

[Desiderius]

Obv theorycrafting since I’ve been trying to talk myself into Pal since the game came out. Even Archie 4 (Indiana Pal) can’t cast in Heavy Armor.

When I do it I’ll do MC Hospitaller in place of Cleric, but will need someone else for main tank, prolly Val TSS 9.

 

[Shadenuat]

So don't wear heavy armor. Get Heart of Valor in Chapter 2 and later you get Singing Steel armor & Heavenly Vest. As a Bard you can still use Heavy Shields.

 

[Desiderius]

Poor Blessed Plate... or even that 12AC on in the Tiefling House

 

[Shadenuat]

Blessed Path gives you less AC than Mithral +1 regardless. It's 11+1 vs 10+3.

Just in this game, not judging whole Pathfinder system or anything, imo all medium and heavy armor should provide extra AC against crit confirmation similar to what barb kit has. But for free and it should rise with its Enchantment level.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Blessed Path gives you less AC than Mithral +1 regardless. It's 11+1 vs 10+3.

Just in this game, not judging whole Pathfinder system or anything, imo all medium and heavy armor should provide extra AC against crit confirmation similar to what barb kit has. But for free and it should rise with its Enchantment level.

Paizo seem like they hate heavy armor to be honest. The rules around it are bad enough here but they are downright punitive in PF 2e. Like many nerds, they don't have any inkling about how Strength-based activities should work.

 

[Sergiu64]

The concept of armors giving more Ac instead of damage reduction have always been unrealistic.

 

[deuxhero]

Man, all these anti-evil outsider abilities in the game and I don't think I've run into a single one so far. I'm about to run off to finish the bloom quest. Is Linzi just exaggerating when she says I need to cheer up Ekun right now?

Sergiu64
No it isn't. An attack either penetrates or it doesn't. Energy can transfer through (which a system could solve with a secondary system), but armor's primary function is stopping attacks, not reducing their effectiveness.

 

[Yosharian]

Man, all these anti-evil outsider abilities in the game and I don't think I've run into a single one so far. I'm about to run off to finish the bloom quest. Is Linzi just exaggerating when she says I need to cheer up Ekun right now?

Sergiu64
No it isn't. An attack either penetrates or it doesn't. Energy can transfer through (which a system could solve with a secondary system), but armor's primary function is stopping attacks, not reducing their effectiveness.

Yes, Paladins are normally great for D&D CRPGS but Kingmaker seems unusual in how few enemies of this type it features.

 

[Yosharian]

RE: the relative weakness of Heavy Armor

What if wearing Heavy Armor (and possible Medium Armor) gave you inherent protection against incoming critical hits? For example, when wearing Heavy Armor, critical hit confirmation rolls have Disadvantage (roll D20 twice, take lowest result).

That could provide a nice bonus for Heavy Armor wearers.

 

[Sergiu64]

Sergiu64
No it isn't. An attack either penetrates or it doesn't. Energy can transfer through (which a system could solve with a secondary system), but armor's primary function is stopping attacks, not reducing their effectiveness.

If it didn't penetrate you still got hit with the force of the weapon. In these video games dudes can hit a guy in full plate as easily with a rapier or a dagger as with a mace - the attack bonus does not change between the weapons. How realistic is that?

Best system was probably in Darklands where non penetrating hits would do one eighth of the damage, partial penetration
was one third. Each armor and weapon had its default penetration.

But that type of realism isn't very balanced.

 

[deuxhero]

I never said the early D&D's system of each weapon working better or worse against certain armor was a bad idea, just that making armor DR is a bad idea. In fact, making armor DR would make light, anti-armor weapons worse against armor.

 

[Sergiu64]

Depends on how you do it. Say you have a high damage but a low penetration weapon like Scimitar. Say it does 10 damage when it penetrates but 1 damage when it does not. Now compare it to a poignard which does 6 damage when it penetrates and 1 damage when it does not. Now use both on something that Scimitar can't penetrate but poignard can like Scalemail - suddenly the weapon that was almost twice as good is six times worse.

 

[Cael]

Just go Fallout way and have both DR and DT and AC. It is a very neat way of making various types of armour useful, but is best in a cRPG and not a PnP one.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, I thought the original Fallouts had the best armor system ever.
Just the crit's penetration was maybe a tad too strong sometimes.