Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[whocares]

I will not eat the bugs. I will not live in a pod. I will not use 2FA.

 

[Shadenuat]

What's even Eldritch Knight's thing in this game? Compared to cheating all-in-one-package Magus.

I was very disappointed when I found out Magus just lol ignores armor penalty as he goes through levels and ends up in full plate no problem; it defeats my personal ideas on what fighter/mages should be going around with spells.

 

[vazha]

That sounds really neat, the walking circus.

Meanwhile I abandoned all hopes of roleplaying an Ahmed and am presently having an absolute blast with my Pal 2 / Scaled Fist 1/ Eldritch Scion 2 Aasimar abomination. Next step - Dragon discipling and then I;ll have to decide between another five levels of Eldritch scion v.s 5 lvls of Eldritch Knight or a two-hander specialist for some neat bonuses in power attack mode. Happy in my own skin.

Dragon Disciple suuuucks

Just continue the Scion levels

Hm. Why is that? I plan to reap all the benefits from it: stat bonuses, powers, resistances and then gracefully abuse the transformation spell. What's the chink in my armour?

If you go DD your net spellcasting progression is at -6, so you'll be a 14th level Scion. You won't even get Transformation

Also, 'chink'? Plz don't be racist

Chink - An narrow opening and vunerable area in one's armor that the opponent will usually aim for. This term relies on "chink" in the sense of "a crack or gap," a meaning dating from about 1400 and used figuratively since the mid-1600s.

As for the rest of your arguments
How on earth will I be a lvl 14 spellcaster? 1 scion spellcasting (second lvl) + 9 DD + 5 lvls of ES or EK. this makes 15 lvls. To cast transfomation I need to be what, lvl 12 spellcaster, no?
As for the rest:
"BAB loss" - First of all, even if I were to continue ES, I d still get medium BABs, second - transformation and other transmutation spells will come to my rescue.
"Spellcasting loss" - only spellcasting I need with this build (I'm wielding twohanders) is a couple of good touch spells for melee opponents (more susceptible to spells than a duelling mage would be) and couple of transmutation cantrips.
"Int and Con useless to Scion" - And? I have minimum int and wisdom and 10 con. So far so good. Pal charisma saves help.
AC doesn't stack with Draconic bloodline AC (or shouldn't) - it does stack alright, and I don't see a reason why it shouldn't - one bonus comes from bloodline, another from being a disciple to a dragon, no? :armenian accent:
"Useless Kn. Arcana requirements" - that much is true. although so far the only useful skill for my dude has been persuasion. happy with that.
"Loss of Scion ability progression" (this alone is huge) - I had a look at those and think there is not much to write home about. by far the most important ability - cast spell & melee hit you get on lvl second and there is no progression for that one. sure, upgrading your weapon is nice but there are other ways of doing that.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

myself i plan on doing enchantment caster with some light crossbow splash. Archeologist from the look of it is better at rogueing than rogue (with exception of sneak, i cant remember what was the issue with that one.). He get bonuses to search like rogue, but then extra to trickery.


I did in fact play around a bit but im shelving my experience until proper documentation. I plan to have archeologist and another regular bard in party. I think of my PC as cc caster/skill monkey first, some dmg later. With all the temporary bonuses I expect to be able to contribute to dmg against tought bosses in short bursts.

Archeologist brings nothing terribly useful to the table, sacrifices one of the Bard's best abilities, and isn't particularly good at Persuasion. "lockpicking, trapfinding and stealth" can be done by any class.

Thank you very much for answers & information, seems there a things that should be considered.

 

[Yosharian]

Chink - An narrow opening and vunerable area in one's armor that the opponent will usually aim for. This term relies on "chink" in the sense of "a crack or gap," a meaning dating from about 1400 and used figuratively since the mid-1600s.

As for the rest of your arguments
How on earth will I be a lvl 14 spellcaster? 1 scion spellcasting (second lvl) + 9 DD + 5 lvls of ES or EK. this makes 15 lvls. To cast transfomation I need to be what, lvl 12 spellcaster, no?
As for the rest:
"BAB loss" - First of all, even if I were to continue ES, I d still get medium BABs, second - transformation and other transmutation spells will come to my rescue.
"Spellcasting loss" - only spellcasting I need with this build (I'm wielding twohanders) is a couple of good touch spells for melee opponents (more susceptible to spells than a duelling mage would be) and couple of transmutation cantrips.
"Int and Con useless to Scion" - And? I have minimum int and wisdom and 10 con. So far so good. Pal charisma saves help.
AC doesn't stack with Draconic bloodline AC (or shouldn't) - it does stack alright, and I don't see a reason why it shouldn't - one bonus comes from bloodline, another from being a disciple to a dragon, no? :armenian accent:
"Useless Kn. Arcana requirements" - that much is true. although so far the only useful skill for my dude has been persuasion. happy with that.
"Loss of Scion ability progression" (this alone is huge) - I had a look at those and think there is not much to write home about. by far the most important ability - cast spell & melee hit you get on lvl second and there is no progression for that one. sure, upgrading your weapon is nice but there are other ways of doing that.

Dude it was a joke...



2 scion levels, 7 spellcasting levels from DD, 5 levels of scion, that's 14th level scion. You don't get access to Transformation until 16th level of scion. EK would be even worse.

Yes it's the same BAB as Magus, my point is, that's not better.

Actually, you could be right. They might stack. I have to check that.

Losing Arcana progression and bonus feats is terrible in my opinion, but oh well. Also Arcane Pool does scale with scion level.

The loss of spellcasting levels is by far the worst thing about DD. It's almost never worth it for that reason. EK is a little better, but you said yourself that you don't need BAB that badly. It's far better to finish out the Scion levels.

 

[Jarpie]

Oh btw. Inquisitor archetype Tactical Leader gets nice bonus for persuasion checks, so it would suit well for dialogues.

Edit: Derp, they get for diplomacy checks, other inquisitor archetypes get bonus for intimidation.

 

[vazha]

2 scion levels, 7 spellcasting levels from DD, 5 levels of scion, that's 14th level scion. You don't get access to Transformation until 16th level of scion. EK would be even worse.

Yes it's the same BAB as Magus, my point is, that's not better.

Actually, you could be right. They might stack. I have to check that.

Losing Arcana progression and bonus feats is terrible in my opinion, but oh well. Also Arcane Pool does scale with scion level.

Ow, DD gives only 7 Spellcasting levels? Damn. Damn damn damn damn. In that case I better restart with an abyssal ES and have Transformation at lvl 13 of scion (+2 pal, 1 monk lvls, so effectively I'd get it at 16th lvl) +6 strength and some nifty resistances and free feats as well. Thanks for pointing this out <3
My biggest beef with Arcane pool is that its best ability (adding cha modifier to attacks) only lasts 1 turn. 1 freaking turn, Carl! Whatever am I supposed to do with one turn attack?
Re: EK, doesn't it add spell progression to whatever spellcasting class you'd have?

 

[Yosharian]

Ow, DD gives only 7 Spellcasting levels? Damn. Damn damn damn damn. In that case I better restart with an abyssal ES and have Transformation at lvl 13 of scion (+2 pal, 1 monk lvls, so effectively I'd get it at 16th lvl) +6 strength and some nifty resistances and free feats as well. Thanks for pointing this out <3
My biggest beef with Arcane pool is that its best ability (adding cha modifier to attacks) only lasts 1 turn. 1 freaking turn, Carl! Whatever am I supposed to do with one turn attack?
Re: EK, doesn't it add spell progression to whatever spellcasting class you'd have?

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, that Transformation bonus is positioned based on Sorcerer spellcasting progression. You get the spell, but you can't use it until 16th level scion. Believe me, I had the same idea.

Yes the one turn thing sucks, but it's ok if you only use it on bosses I guess.

Don't forget that you can use Enduring Blade to make the base enchanting ability last 1min/level, and you can add Keen, elemental damage, Holy, Bane, Lawful... or get a +5 weapon.... It's 100% customizable.

EK loses that one level of progression. You save 3 points of BAB vs Scion, and you get that spell critical thing. Not good in my opinion.

 

[vazha]

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, that Transformation bonus is positioned based on Sorcerer spellcasting progression. You get the spell, but you can't use it until 16th level scion. Believe me, I had the same idea.

.

What you're saying is that if I were to add my 2 lvls of pally earlier in the game I'd get the transformation thingie at freaking 18 lvl? that's not cool at all. In fact, very uncool.

 

[Yosharian]

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, that Transformation bonus is positioned based on Sorcerer spellcasting progression. You get the spell, but you can't use it until 16th level scion. Believe me, I had the same idea.

.

What you're saying is that if I were to add my 2 lvls of pally earlier in the game I'd get the transformation thingie at freaking 18 lvl? that's not cool at all. In fact, very uncool.

That's exactly correct. If you want to use Transformation, ditch Scion completely and go for Sorcerer. There's a build in my sig.

 

[vazha]

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, that Transformation bonus is positioned based on Sorcerer spellcasting progression. You get the spell, but you can't use it until 16th level scion. Believe me, I had the same idea.

.

What you're saying is that if I were to add my 2 lvls of pally earlier in the game I'd get the transformation thingie at freaking 18 lvl? that's not cool at all. In fact, very uncool.

That's exactly correct. If you want to use Transformation, ditch Scion completely and go for Sorcerer. There's a build in my sig.

But I do want to use scion it seems such a cool class

 

[Shadenuat]

Then use him, you don't need optimal builds to enjoy the game.

 

[Yosharian]

Then use him, you don't need optimal builds to enjoy the game.

 

[vazha]

Another question: does spellstrike work with 2 handers?
And yet another one: does spellstrike synergize with crane wing? CW demands that I have one hand free, is the hand that I'm casting spells with considered free for that purpose?

 

[Frusciante]

Guys a stupid question perhaps, but why does my ranger get 9hp per level up? I have 12 constitutions so shouldn't I be getting 11hp per level up?

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Another question: does spellstrike work with 2 handers?
And yet another one: does spellstrike synergize with crane wing? CW demands that I have one hand free, is the hand that I'm casting spells with considered free for that purpose?

No, only one handed weapons. As for crane wing, I’m not sure. Spell combat counts as an empty hand for weapon finesse and fencing grace, though.

 

[vazha]

Another question: does spellstrike work with 2 handers?
And yet another one: does spellstrike synergize with crane wing? CW demands that I have one hand free, is the hand that I'm casting spells with considered free for that purpose?

No, only one handed weapons. QUOTE]

Are you sure? I'm not talking about spell combat, I'm talking about the 2nd lvl ability, the touch spell one.

 

[Yosharian]

Another question: does spellstrike work with 2 handers?
And yet another one: does spellstrike synergize with crane wing? CW demands that I have one hand free, is the hand that I'm casting spells with considered free for that purpose?

Yes per PnP, but depends how they coded it.

Yes to 2nd Q.

 

[Yosharian]

Guys a stupid question perhaps, but why does my ranger get 9hp per level up? I have 12 constitutions so shouldn't I be getting 11hp per level up?

The game treats your hitpoint die roll as something like 3/4 of the die, instead of rolling.

So d10 gives something like 7, I think.

You add your Con modifier as normal to every hit die.

 

[vazha]

Another question: does spellstrike work with 2 handers?
And yet another one: does spellstrike synergize with crane wing? CW demands that I have one hand free, is the hand that I'm casting spells with considered free for that purpose?

Yes per PnP, but depends how they coded it.

Yes to 2nd Q.

Thats quite a game-changer though, isn't it? important one.
Also, hilariously, I managed Jamandi and her priestly dude to get killed in the prologue fight. She dropped some super nice gear but now I dont have anybody to report to

 

[Yosharian]

Another question: does spellstrike work with 2 handers?
And yet another one: does spellstrike synergize with crane wing? CW demands that I have one hand free, is the hand that I'm casting spells with considered free for that purpose?

Yes per PnP, but depends how they coded it.

Yes to 2nd Q.

Thats quite a game-changer though, isn't it? important one.
Also, hilariously, I managed Jamandi and her priestly dude to get killed in the prologue fight. She dropped some super nice gear but now I dont have anybody to report to

Hmm. Yes, I suppose it could be. I hadn't thought of it that way.

 

[Yosharian]

Thats quite a game-changer though, isn't it? important one.
Also, hilariously, I managed Jamandi and her priestly dude to get killed in the prologue fight. She dropped some super nice gear but now I dont have anybody to report to

Ok so yes, you could do this, but:

Spell combat is what allows you to cast and do a full attack.

If you use a 2H, you get to cast the spell and make a free weapon attack containing the spell, but you don't get to cast AND full attack in the same round.

The difference between one and the other is, well here's an example:

If you have 3 iterative attacks, and you're hasted, and cast a touch spell, you get to do your touch spell weapon attack, plus your 4 weapon attacks as your full attack.

The same situation without spell combat results in the touch spell weapon attack only, since you cannot combine a spell cast and a full attack without spell combat.

 

[vazha]

Thats quite a game-changer though, isn't it? important one.
Also, hilariously, I managed Jamandi and her priestly dude to get killed in the prologue fight. She dropped some super nice gear but now I dont have anybody to report to

Ok so yes, you could do this, but:

Spell combat is what allows you to cast and do a full attack.

If you use a 2H, you get to cast the spell and make a free weapon attack containing the spell, but you don't get to cast AND full attack in the same round.

The difference between one and the other is, well here's an example:

If you have 3 iterative attacks, and you're hasted, and cast a touch spell, you get to do your touch spell weapon attack, plus your 4 weapon attacks as your full attack.

The same situation without spell combat results in the touch spell weapon attack only, since you cannot combine a spell cast and a full attack without spell combat.

You're full of uncool news-es!!! Everything I come up with you destroy! For shame!

 

[Yosharian]

Thats quite a game-changer though, isn't it? important one.
Also, hilariously, I managed Jamandi and her priestly dude to get killed in the prologue fight. She dropped some super nice gear but now I dont have anybody to report to

Ok so yes, you could do this, but:

Spell combat is what allows you to cast and do a full attack.

If you use a 2H, you get to cast the spell and make a free weapon attack containing the spell, but you don't get to cast AND full attack in the same round.

The difference between one and the other is, well here's an example:

If you have 3 iterative attacks, and you're hasted, and cast a touch spell, you get to do your touch spell weapon attack, plus your 4 weapon attacks as your full attack.

The same situation without spell combat results in the touch spell weapon attack only, since you cannot combine a spell cast and a full attack without spell combat.

You're full of uncool news-es!!! Everything I come up with you destroy! For shame!

Heh. My bad.

 

[Yosharian]

Mercenaries only get 20 to spend on their point-buy...