Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Lagole Gon]

I wonder if there's a way to make Linzi useful.

In b4 replace her with a different companion.

 

[deuxhero]

The companions have 32 point buy and they STILL have shit distribution? WTF?

 

[Cael]

The companions have 32 point buy and they STILL have shit distribution? WTF?

Depends on your definition of "shit". 3.5 was aimed at a base stat distribution of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. This is the so-called "elite array" in the game, and is a 25-point buy. Bear in mind that a human with base stats of 10 across the board (the "average" human) is a 12-point buy.

The problem most players these day have is that they are used to 30+point buys, and so anything with less than two 16s is "shit"...

 

[Cael]

The companions have 32 point buy and they STILL have shit distribution? WTF?

Depends on your definition of "shit". 3.5 was aimed at a base stat distribution of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. This is the so-called "elite array" in the game, and is a 25-point buy. Bear in mind that a human with base stats of 10 across the board (the "average" human) is a 12-point buy.

The problem most players these day have is that they are used to 30+point buys, and so anything with less than two 16s is "shit"...

true.

The way to beat the system is to not choose MAD classes like Monks and Rangers. There are only two stats that really should be your focus, CON and one stat that completely governs your abilities. This is why the Druid is so dreaded. He can focus on WIS and forget everything else which he can get from Wild shape.

Note that Natural Spells is not a 3.0 feat. It was added in 3.5, which I believe to be a major mistake. Take that one feat out and the entire power dynamics change.

Natural Spells is one of the reasons why I laugh at DMs who foam at the mouth about splatbooks and only allow core books in their games because "splatbooks are broken". Every spell, ability or item that is commonly abused is from the core books. One of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, weapon in the game is in the bloody DMG!

 

[Andnjord]

Another question: does spellstrike work with 2 handers?
And yet another one: does spellstrike synergize with crane wing? CW demands that I have one hand free, is the hand that I'm casting spells with considered free for that purpose?

Yes per PnP, but depends how they coded it.

Yes to 2nd Q.

Thats quite a game-changer though, isn't it? important one.

I can confirm that yes, you can use Crane Wing with spell strike no problem in game. That's actually how you make a Sword Saint halfling tank, one level of monk allows him 45 AC at lvl10 with self buffing mirror image, concealment, stoneskin for example :D

It makes for a beautiful unarmored tiny little thing you can barely click on that tanks the most monstrous creatures.

 

[Reinhardt]

Should i start as paladin and go monk after two levels or start as monk and grab two paladin levels later?

 

[Gorn]

How do Perception checks work? Do all party members get to roll vs. a difficulty to find something hidden, or is it only the person with the highest bonus, or the closest person? Do you get to re-roll if you fail if with someone and then come back with someone else or having boosted your Perception score with level-up points or items?

 

[Yosharian]

Should i start as paladin and go monk after two levels or start as monk and grab two paladin levels later?

Makes no difference

 

[hell bovine]

The companions have 32 point buy and they STILL have shit distribution? WTF?

That's actually not such a bad design idea, considering there is no proper manual and the game doesn't explain the mechanics well. A lot of players (myself included) are not familiar with the system, so it's easy to make a suboptimal character on your first try, especially with all the bugs. But even then, my poor alchemist doesn't stand out in the misfits party, precisely because the companions are not so good either. It's not like they are non-useable; they are good enough for challenging difficulty, and there is always the option to build your own hirelings.

 

[vazha]

Another question: does spellstrike work with 2 handers?
And yet another one: does spellstrike synergize with crane wing? CW demands that I have one hand free, is the hand that I'm casting spells with considered free for that purpose?

Yes per PnP, but depends how they coded it.

Yes to 2nd Q.

Thats quite a game-changer though, isn't it? important one.

I can confirm that yes, you can use Crane Wing with spell strike no problem in game. That's actually how you make a Sword Saint halfling tank, one level of monk allows him 45 AC at lvl10 with self buffing mirror image, concealment, stoneskin for example :D

It makes for a beautiful unarmored tiny little thing you can barely click on that tanks the most monstrous creatures.

Would I be correct in my assumption that it's not merely a tank but also a rather reliable damage dealer if you'll go weapon finesse route?

 

[Yosharian]

How do Perception checks work? Do all party members get to roll vs. a difficulty to find something hidden, or is it only the person with the highest bonus, or the closest person? Do you get to re-roll if you fail if with someone and then come back with someone else or having boosted your Perception score with level-up points or items?

Perception, I think everyone gets a roll, but I'm not sure if they're staggered

It's worth getting Perception on a few characters I think

 

[J1M]

That sounds really neat, the walking circus.

Meanwhile I abandoned all hopes of roleplaying an Ahmed and am presently having an absolute blast with my Pal 2 / Scaled Fist 1/ Eldritch Scion 2 Aasimar abomination. Next step - Dragon discipling and then I;ll have to decide between another five levels of Eldritch scion v.s 5 lvls of Eldritch Knight or a two-hander specialist for some neat bonuses in power attack mode. Happy in my own skin.

Dragon Disciple suuuucks

Just continue the Scion levels

Hm. Why is that? I plan to reap all the benefits from it: stat bonuses, powers, resistances and then gracefully abuse the transformation spell. What's the chink in my armour?

Basically because this isn't Neverwinter Nights, and the dragon disciple bonuses are largely baked into the sorcerer class as minor attributes.

 

[J1M]

I see a lot of people mentioning Cornugon Smash for damage dealers to debuff a little. It sounds good, assuming that most enemies aren't immune to those effects.

What would be a recommended combat ability for a tank? I've never made a character that went the defender prestige class route and it seems like you'd want something for them to do in addition to being sturdy. (ie. Trip, Grapple, Taunt, etc.)

 

[Lawntoilet]

I see a lot of people mentioning Cornugon Smash for damage dealers to debuff a little. It sounds good, assuming that most enemies aren't immune to those effects.

What would be a recommended combat ability for a tank? I've never made a character that went the defender prestige class route and it seems like you'd want something for them to do in addition to being sturdy. (ie. Trip, Grapple, Taunt, etc.)

Improved Bull Rush is good because it provokes AoOs. Sunder Armor is decent for when you actually fight armored enemies but that's not that common so far.

I gave Cornugon Smash to Valerie and it doesn't seem like there are a ton of immune enemies. It's been quite good so far.

 

[Incendax]

How do Perception checks work? Do all party members get to roll vs. a difficulty to find something hidden, or is it only the person with the highest bonus, or the closest person? Do you get to re-roll if you fail if with someone and then come back with someone else or having boosted your Perception score with level-up points or items?

Every party member gets to roll, including animal companions.

But you only roll once per level. If you miss it the first time, you miss it even if you buff up and wander around searching for it. Unless you save scum or level up and come back. So basically the same as locks.

 

[Andnjord]

Would I be correct in my assumption that it's not merely a tank but also a rather reliable damage dealer if you'll go weapon finesse route?

Yeah, it's pretty decent. You also have a caster sitting right in the middle of the melee, so it makes it rather easy to fling a few AOE in there if you can spare the slots or are using wands of course. But melee dmage won't be as big as a dedicated Fighter type as you're pumping Intelligence rather than Strength (or Dexterity in your case) on level-ups and items stat booster.

 

[J1M]

I see a lot of people mentioning Cornugon Smash for damage dealers to debuff a little. It sounds good, assuming that most enemies aren't immune to those effects.

What would be a recommended combat ability for a tank? I've never made a character that went the defender prestige class route and it seems like you'd want something for them to do in addition to being sturdy. (ie. Trip, Grapple, Taunt, etc.)

Improved Bull Rush is good because it provokes AoOs. Sunder Armor is decent for when you actually fight armored enemies but that's not that common so far.

I gave Cornugon Smash to Valerie and it doesn't seem like there are a ton of immune enemies. It's been quite good so far.

Any reason to avoid trip?

 

[Luckmann]

What do you make of this Linzi build? https://fextralife.com/pathfinder-kingmaker-builds-linzi-the-bard/

I make of it that if you're going to follow a build made by someone else, you should stop playing Pathfinder.

 

[vazha]

Would I be correct in my assumption that it's not merely a tank but also a rather reliable damage dealer if you'll go weapon finesse route?

Yeah, it's pretty decent. You also have a caster sitting right in the middle of the melee, so it makes it rather easy to fling a few AOE in there if you can spare the slots or are using wands of course. But melee dmage won't be as big as a dedicated Fighter type as you're pumping Intelligence rather than Strength (or Dexterity in your case) on level-ups and items stat booster.

what I was thinking is some massive kiting thanks to sky-high mobility skills & charging straight up to enemy squishies and showing them what's what with my trusty estoc & frigid touch (what's with that name, lol) while their fighter types fail to hack me into pieces despite their best efforts. Would something along these lines doable with a dex Sword Saint?
Also why a hobbit and not an angel with wings at lvl 10?

 

[J1M]

I've always wanted to have a character in a game like this that used two shields. Does anyone know if the armor bonuses from two shields would stack? I feel like they should, but wouldn't.

Never mind, you can't even equip two bucklers.

 

[Andnjord]

what I was thinking is some massive kiting thanks to sky-high mobility skills & charging straight up to enemy squishies and showing them what's what with my trusty estoc & frigid touch (what's with that name, lol) while their fighter types fail to hack me into pieces despite their best efforts. Would something along these lines doable with a dex Sword Saint?

Sure, that should work. You also get that teleportation spell, dimension door for that purpose.

Also why a hobbit and not an angel with wings at lvl 10?

• Because lvl10 is far and takes a long time to get there
• Because I already had three asimaars in my party. Everytime they step foot in a dark dungeon it feels like my party is a mobile teenager bedroom what with all the fairy lights light auras.

 

[Lawntoilet]

I see a lot of people mentioning Cornugon Smash for damage dealers to debuff a little. It sounds good, assuming that most enemies aren't immune to those effects.

What would be a recommended combat ability for a tank? I've never made a character that went the defender prestige class route and it seems like you'd want something for them to do in addition to being sturdy. (ie. Trip, Grapple, Taunt, etc.)

Improved Bull Rush is good because it provokes AoOs. Sunder Armor is decent for when you actually fight armored enemies but that's not that common so far.

I gave Cornugon Smash to Valerie and it doesn't seem like there are a ton of immune enemies. It's been quite good so far.

Any reason to avoid trip?

Oh I misread that, Trip is quite good actually. You can sort of get it with Amiri if you take the Rage power that gives her a bite attack and then have her wear the Winter Wolf cloak.

 

[Haplo]

I wonder about using an Alchemist with Feral Mutagen with the cloak. Does anyone know if the trip triggered by the cloak will use all your feat bonuses (Greater Trip, Fury's Fall, Tandem Trip)?

Kinda sucks that you need to basically hug an enemy in order to bite him (makes sense, but doesn't work that well with an enlarged polearm cleave user).
Although I guess you could make some sacrifices when there's an enemy you actually want to trip a lot.

 

[Haplo]

So about Feral Mutagen being a bad idea due to mundane damage....
I'm in Chapter 1 and found an amulat which provides a +1 enchantment to unarmed and natural attacks...

I'm more and more tempted to go this way... particularly having read about the cloak that provides free trips on bite attack.

 

[aweigh]

You can dual-wield shields in elminage. It's also a really good loadout for caster-types in the post-game of elminage: gothic but you gotta get creative with the enchantment ores and cursed shields in order to find two good ones that you can un-curse and enchant for the character's class and race usage.