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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
Nope, wizords are best

And sorcerers are fairytail anime trash
lol look at me 20 subclasses I can have claws ears tails and wings
my mother was a drow and my father was werewolf
hurr
 
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Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,515
Location
Grand Chien
Nope, wizords are best

And sorcerers are fairytail anime trash
lol look at me 20 subclasses I can have claws ears tails and wings
hurr
Wizard: I have 200 spells in my spellbook, most of them are useless and I don't have the right one memorized for this situation that I couldn't predict would happen

Sorcerer: I picked all the best spells from every level and I have more of them per day, and I get to apply metamagic on the fly
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
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Location
Grand Chien
Lol, "best spells"
You play MMO or something :M
Nani

There's clearly good and bad spells

Anyway with the limited spell count that the game has Sorc is even better than it normally is

I mean, there's like 5 level 9 spells to choose from and half of them are bad
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,764
Lol, "best spells"
You play MMO or something :M
Nani

There's clearly good and bad spells

Anyway with the limited spell count that the game has Sorc is even better than it normally is

I mean, there's like 5 level 9 spells to choose from and half of them are bad
Good enough that you'd make an arcane trickster with a sorc template? The Rogue1/Wizard19 route looks pretty good.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,515
Location
Grand Chien
Lol, "best spells"
You play MMO or something :M
Nani

There's clearly good and bad spells

Anyway with the limited spell count that the game has Sorc is even better than it normally is

I mean, there's like 5 level 9 spells to choose from and half of them are bad
Good enough that you'd make an arcane trickster with a sorc template? The Rogue1/Wizard19 route looks pretty good.
Arcane Trickster?

Hmmm. Maybe. But probably not, Rogue gets nothing from Charisma.
 

Urthor

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
1,880
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I mean if you are on your third playthrough and you know *exactly* which of the spells you want to pick for Sorcerer then sorcerer is probably slightly better than wizard.


Considering this game leaves out a bunch of spells from tabletop, some skills are dramatically more or less useful or different (Stoneskin for example is 10x as good because there's way more gold per level to fund diamond dusts) doing a utility sorceror (blaster sorc is diff) on your first playthrough sounds rubbsih.
 

Ruchy

Scholar
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Messages
202
Location
Australia
Is a two weapon Paladin worth it? or should they either be sword and board or two handers
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
Nope, wizords are best

And sorcerers are fairytail anime trash
lol look at me 20 subclasses I can have claws ears tails and wings
hurr
I don't have the right one memorized for this situation that I couldn't predict would happen
To be fair, playing early game I haven't had this happen with Octavia, leveling is slow enough that you notice when spells become obsolete as you go. Blasting at low levels seemed inefficient compared to alchemist's aoe spam anyway.

What was problematic was scroll availability, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was yet again content to be "patched in". That, and the bugs, especially in some sorcerer bloodlines.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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Staff Member
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Deutschland
Good enough that you'd make an arcane trickster with a sorc template? The Rogue1/Wizard19 route looks pretty good.
I only played over the weekend (finished ch1 with a 2h fighter) but from what I've seen so far - if you want to make a "pure" wizard who will not only buff/summon but also nuke stuff without having to go "nova" and then rest afterwards I'd do the following:
Lvl 1 alchemist, vivisectionist
You gain: free +4dex, +2dodge AC mutagen for 10min, both effects stack with everything else and 1d6 sneak dice, take accomplished sneakattacker for another 1d6 and you have enough sneak dice to qualify for Arcane Trickster, add to that a bunch of lvl1 spell slots where you can shove some stuff where caster level doesn't matter like True Strike for instance. Then take 5 Wizard levels until you qualify for AT.

You end up with plenty of sneak dice that you can apply per ray of frost cantrip all day long, when you need bigger cannons, scorching ray, empowered scorching ray, hellfire ray etc (basically every spell with touch attack) can apply sneak dice and deal additional damages to vital organs, Sense Vitals lvl2 spell can add another 5d6 sneak eventually. As far as I can tell you can sneak attack even Undead in this game.
The first feats should be Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot to make your rays hit.

As far as sorcerers go, I assume a similar strategy can work with Sorcs too, although vivisectionist synergizes better with INT based casters (though there is a INT based Sorc too). One level of Vivisectionist gives you better things than 1 lvl of Rogue imo.
I guess draconic bloodlines offer some good bonuses so even a CHA based Sorc can work well, either take INT 11 or 12 or ignore INT for you don't need those alchemist spells anyway.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
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Messages
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Grand Chien
Good enough that you'd make an arcane trickster with a sorc template? The Rogue1/Wizard19 route looks pretty good.
I only played over the weekend (finished ch1 with a 2h fighter) but from what I've seen so far - if you want to make a "pure" wizard who will not only buff/summon but also nuke stuff without having to go "nova" and then rest afterwards I'd do the following:
Lvl 1 alchemist, vivisectionist
You gain: free +4dex, +2dodge AC mutagen for 10min, both effects stack with everything else and 1d6 sneak dice, take accomplished sneakattacker for another 1d6 and you have enough sneak dice to qualify for Arcane Trickster, add to that a bunch of lvl1 spell slots where you can shove some stuff where caster level doesn't matter like True Strike for instance. Then take 5 Wizard levels until you qualify for AT.

You end up with plenty of sneak dice that you can apply per ray of frost cantrip all day long, when you need bigger cannons, scorching ray, empowered scorching ray, hellfire ray etc (basically every spell with touch attack) can apply sneak dice and deal additional damages to vital organs, Sense Vitals lvl2 spell can add another 5d6 sneak eventually. As far as I can tell you can sneak attack even Undead in this game.
The first feats should be Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot to make your rays hit.

As far as sorcerers go, I assume a similar strategy can work with Sorcs too, although vivisectionist synergizes better with INT based casters (though there is a INT based Sorc too). One level of Vivisectionist gives you better things than 1 lvl of Rogue imo.
I guess draconic bloodlines offer some good bonuses so even a CHA based Sorc can work well, either take INT 11 or 12 or ignore INT for you don't need those alchemist spells anyway.
Bear in mind that the Natural AC bonus you get from Mutagen isn't supposed to stack with other Natural AC bonuses you can get from spells. It is stacking right now, though.

Also a level 1 Alchemist's Mutagen only last ten minutes. Meh. Also, the ability score penalty from Mutagen interferes with your casting, if it reduces your main casting score.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
except that +4 dex mutagen lowers your WIS

you going to beat those 3 assassins in prologue soon? :shittydog:
 
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VentilatorOfDoom

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Also a level 1 Alchemist's Mutagen only last ten minutes. Meh.
10 min is a plenty for any boss fight or for a number of difficult encounters. And it's still better than anything the first level of Rogue gives you unless you require Weapon Finesse for a melee char.
1 level vivisectionist seems to me like a no-brainer class dip for pretty much any melee char or ranged char who doesn't require WIS, especially at low levels that buff is huge.

Also, the ability score penalty from Mutagen interferes with your casting, if it reduces your main casting score.
The DEX mutagen doesn't reduce your casting stat which is INT.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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you going to beat those 3 assassins in prologue soon?
Any tips for making it thru the prologue with a wizard featuring the FULL POWER of the 3 spells you got memorized?
2h fighter was not an issue because typically I just clicked on something and one Great Cleve later they were all dead.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
I was actually asking our lovely theorycrafter there

I would actually say as a spellcaster it is a lot easier, because you do not depend on RNG. At least for me on Hard it felt simplier, as our trio of master Daze'rs of me, Linzi and purple toad could reliably turn off multiple enemies, and magic missiles/force missiles (Evoker gets what, 8 of them?) do not depend on RNG/armor class.

I have a separate Unfair playthrough as paladin dwarf just for when I want to actually feel miserable (fucking Smite, does it ever work? even banditos are all NOT evil); on the other hand Wizard (especially Controller) is a god early game.

FULL POWER of the 3 spells
pick Bonded Object for +1 spell.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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pick Bonded Object for +1 spell.
You think bonded object is better than familiar in the long run? Yeah, changing your spellbook and immediately recalling the new spell, or recalling any valuable high level spell seems to get more and more worthwhile the higher level you become.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
I like it more for sure.

Also, it effectively means every spell you memorize has a copy. You did not memorize fireball and confusion, you memorized possible 2 fireballs and 1 confusion, or 1 fireball and 2 confusions.

I find it just very handy.
 

Smashing Axe

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,835
Divinity: Original Sin
Bear in mind that the Natural AC bonus you get from Mutagen isn't supposed to stack with other Natural AC bonuses you can get from spells. It is stacking right now, though.
Actually, if you go by PnP rules, the alchemist's natural armour bonus does stack with the natural AC bonuses you receive from spells and items. The distinction is that spells and items give a natural armour enhancement bonus, where the alchemist's mutagen ability just gives a natural armour bonus.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Nope, wizords are best

And sorcerers are fairytail anime trash
lol look at me 20 subclasses I can have claws ears tails and wings
hurr
Wizard: I have 200 spells in my spellbook, most of them are useless and I don't have the right one memorized for this situation that I couldn't predict would happen

Sorcerer: I picked all the best spells from every level and I have more of them per day, and I get to apply metamagic on the fly

Wizard: I can change whenever I want and can highly specialize for encounters in ways Sorcerers can only dream of.

Sorcerer: Damn half of the enemies are resistant or immune to my shit, wish I could change my spell selection.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Can anyone suggest a good build for a character idea I have:
Angelic Celestial Eldritch Scion.

Angelic Asimaar and an Eldrich Scion with a Celestial heritage.

Basically an arcane alternative to the Paladin.

Any ideas off the top of your heads as to stats/feats/spell selection?
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
32,389
Maybe i should grab save editor from nexus and make 32 points monk character to mess with the game while waiting for patches...
 

Andnjord

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
3,558
Location
The Eye of Terror
Wizard: I can change whenever I want and can highly specialize for encounters in ways Sorcerers can only dream of.

Sorcerer: Damn half of the enemies are resistant or immune to my shit, wish I could change my spell selection.
Don't know man, I like having a sorcerer in my party as buffer-in-chief. Having tons of Heroism, Haste, Displacement or Stoneskin on tap is pretty damn convenient.
 

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