Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

playing on unfair and having a blast with... save/load button.

unfair would probably be a lot more fun if it didn't take 3 minutes to load my game later on.

this is why I am sticking with modified normal for now.

 

[Sykar]

Good enough that you'd make an arcane trickster with a sorc template? The Rogue1/Wizard19 route looks pretty good.

I only played over the weekend (finished ch1 with a 2h fighter) but from what I've seen so far - if you want to make a "pure" wizard who will not only buff/summon but also nuke stuff without having to go "nova" and then rest afterwards I'd do the following:
Lvl 1 alchemist, vivisectionist
You gain: free +4dex, +2dodge AC mutagen for 10min, both effects stack with everything else and 1d6 sneak dice, take accomplished sneakattacker for another 1d6 and you have enough sneak dice to qualify for Arcane Trickster, add to that a bunch of lvl1 spell slots where you can shove some stuff where caster level doesn't matter like True Strike for instance. Then take 5 Wizard levels until you qualify for AT.

You end up with plenty of sneak dice that you can apply per ray of frost cantrip all day long, when you need bigger cannons, scorching ray, empowered scorching ray, hellfire ray etc (basically every spell with touch attack) can apply sneak dice and deal additional damages to vital organs, Sense Vitals lvl2 spell can add another 5d6 sneak eventually. As far as I can tell you can sneak attack even Undead in this game.
The first feats should be Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot to make your rays hit.

As far as sorcerers go, I assume a similar strategy can work with Sorcs too, although vivisectionist synergizes better with INT based casters (though there is a INT based Sorc too). One level of Vivisectionist gives you better things than 1 lvl of Rogue imo.
I guess draconic bloodlines offer some good bonuses so even a CHA based Sorc can work well, either take INT 11 or 12 or ignore INT for you don't need those alchemist spells anyway.

Bear in mind that the Natural AC bonus you get from Mutagen isn't supposed to stack with other Natural AC bonuses you can get from spells. It is stacking right now, though.

Also a level 1 Alchemist's Mutagen only last ten minutes. Meh. Also, the ability score penalty from Mutagen interferes with your casting, if it reduces your main casting score.

I am fairly certain that natural armor bonus was one of the few which was supposed to actually stack at least in 3.5.

Edit: Or rather Barkskin at the least stacked with natural armor bonus.

 

[vazha]

Btw, Yosharian, if this is to be believed, Dragon Disciple's spell progression is the same as sorcerers, and not, as you suggested, a 7 spellcasting out of 10, so that would make DD still a viable class if you wanted 13 lvl from abyssal bloodline and 1 ac +2 str for two lvls of DD I guess.
Please come and ruin all my plans as always.

 

[Reinhardt]

Seriously - fuck this cheat engine thing. I'm tired just from leveling up lvl 1 character...

Owlcat, y u no patch ur gaem so i can stop?!!1

 

[Yosharian]

Btw, Yosharian, if this is to be believed, Dragon Disciple's spell progression is the same as sorcerers, and not, as you suggested, a 7 spellcasting out of 10, so that would make DD still a viable class if you wanted 13 lvl from abyssal bloodline and 1 ac +2 str for two lvls of DD I guess.
Please come and ruin all my plans as always.

WHAT

Ok I must test this immediately

 

[Yosharian]

Btw, Yosharian, if this is to be believed, Dragon Disciple's spell progression is the same as sorcerers, and not, as you suggested, a 7 spellcasting out of 10, so that would make DD still a viable class if you wanted 13 lvl from abyssal bloodline and 1 ac +2 str for two lvls of DD I guess.
Please come and ruin all my plans as always.

Sorry to break it to you buddy but the page is wrong. Dragon Disciple has spellcasting progression according to the D20PFSRD, as per PnP.

 

[Incendax]

Please come and ruin all my plans as always.

Oh, I want to ruin plans also!

Abyssal Bloodline is not eligible for DD. Having a Draconic Bloodline is an unlisted requirement.

Fun fact: You can get into DD with Bard, but it sets your bloodline to draconic.

 

[Yosharian]

Good enough that you'd make an arcane trickster with a sorc template? The Rogue1/Wizard19 route looks pretty good.

I only played over the weekend (finished ch1 with a 2h fighter) but from what I've seen so far - if you want to make a "pure" wizard who will not only buff/summon but also nuke stuff without having to go "nova" and then rest afterwards I'd do the following:
Lvl 1 alchemist, vivisectionist
You gain: free +4dex, +2dodge AC mutagen for 10min, both effects stack with everything else and 1d6 sneak dice, take accomplished sneakattacker for another 1d6 and you have enough sneak dice to qualify for Arcane Trickster, add to that a bunch of lvl1 spell slots where you can shove some stuff where caster level doesn't matter like True Strike for instance. Then take 5 Wizard levels until you qualify for AT.

You end up with plenty of sneak dice that you can apply per ray of frost cantrip all day long, when you need bigger cannons, scorching ray, empowered scorching ray, hellfire ray etc (basically every spell with touch attack) can apply sneak dice and deal additional damages to vital organs, Sense Vitals lvl2 spell can add another 5d6 sneak eventually. As far as I can tell you can sneak attack even Undead in this game.
The first feats should be Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot to make your rays hit.

As far as sorcerers go, I assume a similar strategy can work with Sorcs too, although vivisectionist synergizes better with INT based casters (though there is a INT based Sorc too). One level of Vivisectionist gives you better things than 1 lvl of Rogue imo.
I guess draconic bloodlines offer some good bonuses so even a CHA based Sorc can work well, either take INT 11 or 12 or ignore INT for you don't need those alchemist spells anyway.

Bear in mind that the Natural AC bonus you get from Mutagen isn't supposed to stack with other Natural AC bonuses you can get from spells. It is stacking right now, though.

Also a level 1 Alchemist's Mutagen only last ten minutes. Meh. Also, the ability score penalty from Mutagen interferes with your casting, if it reduces your main casting score.

I am fairly certain that natural armor bonus was one of the few which was supposed to actually stack at least in 3.5.

Edit: Or rather Barkskin at the least stacked with natural armor bonus.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary/

A natural armor bonus improves armor class resulting from a creature’s naturally tough hide. Natural armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to armor class (even with armor bonuses) except other natural armor bonuses. Some magical effects (such as the barkskin spell) grant an enhancement bonus to the creature’s existing natural armor bonus, which has the effect of increasing the natural armor’s overall bonus to armor class. A natural armor bonus doesn’t apply against touch attacks.

Natural Armor bonuses don't stack with other Natural Armor bonuses. So for example, the Mutagen Natural Armor bonus doesn't stack with the Natural Armor bonus from the Transformation spell.

The bonus from Barkskin is Enhancement, so as you said, that does stack. However, it's the only spell I know of that grants an Enhancement to Natural Armor bonus.

The only exception to this rule is the Dragon Disciple Natural Armor bonus, which is worded as a natural armor increase and therefore probably stacks.

 

[vazha]

Btw, Yosharian, if this is to be believed, Dragon Disciple's spell progression is the same as sorcerers, and not, as you suggested, a 7 spellcasting out of 10, so that would make DD still a viable class if you wanted 13 lvl from abyssal bloodline and 1 ac +2 str for two lvls of DD I guess.
Please come and ruin all my plans as always.

Sorry to break it to you buddy but the page is wrong. Dragon Disciple has spellcasting progression according to the D20PFSRD, as per PnP.

Nooo... NOOOOOO!!!! This cannot beee!!!!! :plunges into the depths of insanity:

 

[vazha]

Please come and ruin all my plans as always.

Oh, I want to ruin plans also!

Abyssal Bloodline is not eligible for DD. Having a Draconic Bloodline is an unlisted requirement.

Fun fact: You can get into DD with Bard, but it sets your bloodline to draconic.

That much I did know. Fact is that DD itself also confers an additional ac increase on first lvl (and it goes up on later ones), nothwithstanding your bloodline. If you had Draconic one though you'd get 2 increases instead of one.

 

[aweigh]

what's a good build for Linzi, harram, amiri, valerie, jaentha and a fighter PC?

 

[vazha]

Whoever voiced Jubilost did a stellar job. Sounds exactly like my twat editor in chief :D

 

[Cael]

Btw, Yosharian, if this is to be believed, Dragon Disciple's spell progression is the same as sorcerers, and not, as you suggested, a 7 spellcasting out of 10, so that would make DD still a viable class if you wanted 13 lvl from abyssal bloodline and 1 ac +2 str for two lvls of DD I guess.
Please come and ruin all my plans as always.

Sorry to break it to you buddy but the page is wrong. Dragon Disciple has spellcasting progression according to the D20PFSRD, as per PnP.

DD should be the equivalent of a +3LA, which means you should lose 3 BAB (i.e., medium BAB) and 3 levels of spell progression. At least, that is how 3.5 did it except they messed up spell progression with spell slot...!

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Seriously - fuck this cheat engine thing. I'm tired just from leveling up lvl 1 character...

Owlcat, y u no patch ur gaem so i can stop?!!1

just wait until you realize that you can set individual class levels as well, letting you technically go over the level limit in classes.

oh and btw, if you take a class that has a bloodline like eldritch scion or sorcerer and select anything but draconic bloodlines and then take dragon disciple, you will gain a draconic bloodline in addition to your original bloodline.

 

[Cael]

The only exception to this rule is the Dragon Disciple Natural Armor bonus, which is worded as a natural armor increase and therefore probably stacks.

It is stated outright in the Half-Dragon template, where the whole idea of DD came from, that the +4 natural AC bonus stacks with any existing natural AC the base creature has. Given what DD is trying to achieve, the bonus from the class feature should stack.

 

[Yosharian]

The only exception to this rule is the Dragon Disciple Natural Armor bonus, which is worded as a natural armor increase and therefore probably stacks.

It is stated outright in the Half-Dragon template, where the whole idea of DD came from, that the +4 natural AC bonus stacks with any existing natural AC the base creature has. Given what DD is trying to achieve, the bonus from the class feature should stack.

Yeah it makes sense

 

[Background Character]

I play sorcerer because I want to use magic and have everybody like me unlike real life where I can't use magic and I have the charisma of fresh roadkill (and because the warlock is not in Pathfinder)

Where is my aberrant bloodline

 

[Jermu]

what's a good build for Linzi, harram, amiri, valerie, jaentha and a fighter PC?

These are my experiences been playing for around 130 hours (hard) and reached chapter 5 till progression is fucked:

Linzi: Utilizing high charisma made sense so I turned her into a (sylvan) sorceress. Pets are op as fuck and losing 1 level to bard is not a big deal. I tried to kill her after

Spoiler

She stole money from my barony + her quotes "APPLAUSE PLEASE" are so annoying

No idea how pure bards are but looked kinda boring / bad.

Harram: All in on cleric or druid. I tried him as a full cleric but low charisma really mess his aoe healing ability and is quite trash compared to Tristian's. Only custom npc I hired was a cleric because Tristian and I had some political differences and Harram was not good at healing.

Amiri: Mixing 2 handed fighter + rogue + barbarian works great she is quite squishy so enlarged person helps her reach.

Valerie: I made her into a full tank without utilizing her high charisma (probably a bad idea). She is one of the non annoying companions so Im sticking with her.

Jaentha: Nerd commando turned her into a mad dog which seems fine. I don't have experience with inquisitors except monster summoner which is really op.

Fighter PC: Pure or multiclass? Going 20 levels on 2 handed fighter seems like a best pure choice. If you are going to use amiri and Jaentha I would go for something else than melee fighter.

 

[Lawntoilet]

what's a good build for Linzi, harram, amiri, valerie, jaentha and a fighter PC?

I think you might want an arcane caster in there somewhere. However, some easy "lore-friendly" builds that work would be:

Valerie:
Fighter 7 / Stalwart Defender 3 or 5 / Fighter 13 or 15
Power Attack, Dazzling Display, Cornugon Smash, Outflank, Shatter Defenses, Bull Rush, Improved Bull Rush, Armor Focus (Heavy), Shield focus

Harrim:
Cleric 20
Extra Channel, Spell Focus (Enchantment), Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment), Outflank, Armor Focus (Heavy)

Linzi:
Bard 7 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Bard 10
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Lingering Performance, Deadly Aim, Arcane Strike

Amiri:
Barb 2 / 2-Handed Fighter 7 / Barb 13
Take Guarded Stance, and she's probably better off with a Reach weapon attacking from the second row. There are some really good Glaives so I'd recommend that.
Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Outflank, Combat Reflexes

I don't use Jaethal but you might want to build her as some kind of ranged character since your party is really melee-heavy. Her stats aren't spectacular for it, so maybe level her as an Empyreal Sorc since her Wis is good, then that will cover your Arcane caster deficiency?

If you're planning on making a melee fighter, give him Combat Reflexes when Val gets Improved Bull Rush to trigger more AoOs.

 

[Cael]

Any chance of a Dwarven Defender type build for DR stacking?

DD gives up to DR 6/- at level 10. Get adamantine armour that gives DR 3/- and mix in levels that give Dr x/- (e.g., Barb 7) and suddenly, you have a character that takes has DR 10+ vs anything including adamantine weapons. Make the guy a high AC tank, plonk him in a narrow corridor and let hilarity ensue.

...Now I am tempted to make one in NWN2... And throw in DD for the extra lulz.

 

[Fedora Master]

Call me a stupid but I don't really "get" the role of Jaethal. How do you actually build inquisitors?

 

[Cael]

Call me a stupid but I don't really "get" the role of Jaethal. How do you actually build inquisitors?

Well, first you need to move to Spain...

 

[Lawntoilet]

Any chance of a Dwarven Defender type build for DR stacking?

DD gives up to DR 6/- at level 10. Get adamantine armour that gives DR 3/- and mix in levels that give Dr x/- (e.g., Barb 7) and suddenly, you have a character that takes has DR 10+ vs anything including adamantine weapons. Make the guy a high AC tank, plonk him in a narrow corridor and let hilarity ensue.

...Now I am tempted to make one in NWN2... And throw in DD for the extra lulz.

Barb 9/Stalwart Def 10 will get you DR 7/-.

 

[vazha]

Barb 9/Stalwart Def 10 will get you DR 7/-.

You mean the invulnerable rager archetype, right?

 

[Cael]

Any chance of a Dwarven Defender type build for DR stacking?

DD gives up to DR 6/- at level 10. Get adamantine armour that gives DR 3/- and mix in levels that give Dr x/- (e.g., Barb 7) and suddenly, you have a character that takes has DR 10+ vs anything including adamantine weapons. Make the guy a high AC tank, plonk him in a narrow corridor and let hilarity ensue.

...Now I am tempted to make one in NWN2... And throw in DD for the extra lulz.

Barb 9/Stalwart Def 10 will get you DR 7/-.

Yeah. Looks like they basically copied the Dwarven Defender for that one.

It's Barb 10, by the way. That is when it gets DR 2/-.