Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Salvo]

This is gonna sound dumb but what kind of class/race main character would be good if I want to pass Persuasion/Intimidate checks in conversations at key moments? I'm not that interested in super broken builds since I play this game on normal anyway but I wouldn't like to be useless either

Good class for persuasion is Inquisitor, in particular built towards getting Cornugan Smash at +6 attack Bonus (free intimidate checks to demoralize whenever you hit an enemy). Inquisitor also adds half their level to persuasion checks, if I'm not mistaken. It's also good when built towards perception, though you may overlap with Jaethal (perception machine due to stacking bonuses) in that regard.

Otherwise literally any class that wants to stack Charisma. Your best bet is Sorcerer, Paladin and Bard, in that order. You already get a bard in the form of Linzi, and there are no Sorc or Paladin companions.

Final advice is stack Cha and go Sorc.

I wouldn't worry too much about Persuasion checks though, they're usually reasonable and if you get REALLY unlucky remember you can savescum. Decline, I know.

 

[Yosharian]

This is gonna sound dumb but what kind of class/race main character would be good if I want to pass Persuasion/Intimidate checks in conversations at key moments? I'm not that interested in super broken builds since I play this game on normal anyway but I wouldn't like to be useless either

I have a Persuasion-friendly build, check my sig. Bit Munchkin, though.

 

[Yosharian]

archeologist is the only way

Sorry for asking, but can you share build for archeologist?

What kind of details are you looking for?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

share a build of an archetype whose page is still just a stub on wiki? You will have to wait im afraid.

Oh, ok. i am sorry, I thought you already have character with this build and actually tested it, my mistake.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

What kind of details are you looking for?

Well I thought this archetype fits main character nice (since there was mentioned that some persuasion should be done alone) , but I want also that my character was not completely useless in combat and was curious about possibility for archeologist (at least partially) to replace rogue in terms of lockpicking, trapfinding and stealth. I mean, in tabletop version it some kind of bard/rogue hybrid, but I am not sure at all that this will work in cRPG version. So I wanted to know it's possible to build character who charismatic, but also do rogue stuff.

P.S. and some tips about weapon + stat distribution would be nice.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Yosharian]

I don't like Archeologist personally because Inspire Courage is one of the Bard's best abilities.

I wouldn't recommend one, but I can offer an example build if you're desperate to make one.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Yosharian]

as someone without expertise in this title...

Spell Focus Enchantment is always nice to have

does it really make sense without high cha(this is where your spell dc comes from)? Additionally enchantment school is usually suspect to spell penetration. Not only you wont have room to spell pen, but also lose each time you splash(spell penetration is based on your caster lvl)

If you're hoping for your enchantment spells to work on the enemy, you need 17-19 Cha and the Spell Focus feats. Even then, they might fail frequently.

 

[Yosharian]

What kind of details are you looking for?

Well I thought this archetype fits main character nice (since there was mentioned that some persuasion should be done alone) , but I want also that my character was not completely useless in combat and was curious about possibility for archeologist (at least partially) to replace rogue in terms of lockpicking, trapfinding and stealth. I mean, in tabletop version it some kind of bard/rogue hybrid, but I am not sure at all that this will work in cRPG version. So I wanted to know it's possible to build character who charismatic, but also do rogue stuff.

P.S. and some tips about weapon + stat distribution would be nice.

Archeologist brings nothing terribly useful to the table, sacrifices one of the Bard's best abilities, and isn't particularly good at Persuasion. "lockpicking, trapfinding and stealth" can be done by any class.

 

[razvedchiki]

Does dual wield offer anything besides dmg?like the off hand weapon having special stuff like + strength?

 

[archaen]

I am having a hilariously easy time with my almost all animal companion party:
Herald Caller with Animal Domain
Sylvan Sorceress
Ranger
Druid
Inquisitor with Animal Domain
Bard - to buff all the kitties

Does make it hard to walk around or exit maps with 5 large creatures jostling each other.

 

[Yosharian]

Does dual wield offer anything besides dmg?like the off hand weapon having special stuff like + strength?

Potentially. Not a given.

 

[vazha]

That sounds really neat, the walking circus.

Meanwhile I abandoned all hopes of roleplaying an Ahmed and am presently having an absolute blast with my Pal 2 / Scaled Fist 1/ Eldritch Scion 2 Aasimar abomination. Next step - Dragon discipling and then I;ll have to decide between another five levels of Eldritch scion v.s 5 lvls of Eldritch Knight or a two-hander specialist for some neat bonuses in power attack mode. Happy in my own skin.

 

[Yosharian]

does it really make sense without high cha(this is where your spell dc comes from)? Additionally enchantment school is usually suspect to spell penetration. Not only you wont have room to spell pen, but also lose each time you splash(spell penetration is based on your caster lvl)

Unless I'm reading it wrong, Duelist actually keeps your caster level progression in this one, so I was thinking it wouldn't matter much if at all. May be wrong, dunno.

If you're hoping for your enchantment spells to work on the enemy, you need 17-19 Cha and the Spell Focus feats. Even then, they might fail frequently.

I see. I'm fully aware of the other archaeologist drawbacks just thought it could be a reasonably decent build. So without going too detailed, I can figure out the specifics on my own, what would you recommend for a Combat Maneuver warrior with a trip focus (a gish would be nice but I'm not married to it) instead, or alternatively how would you build a melee bard in this one?

Duelist doesn't have spell progression.

Melee bard isn't the best cos they don't have the Shield spell, they need high Cha to make the most of their skillset, and they're not multiclass friendly.

If I was to make a bard I'd go ranged without question. I'd use a build similar to the Eldritch Archer build in my sig, except taking Enchantment, not Evocation, obviously.

Trip focus: maybe a Vivisectionist? High Str, decent Dex, 16 Int, dump Wis/Cha, plenty of skills, Mutagen + Enhancement bonuses to Str/Dex are gonna give ridiculous bonuses to trip with Fury's Fall. Probably go with TWF but there might be some benefit to 2H, I'd have to peruse the feat list.

 

[Yosharian]

That sounds really neat, the walking circus.

Meanwhile I abandoned all hopes of roleplaying an Ahmed and am presently having an absolute blast with my Pal 2 / Scaled Fist 1/ Eldritch Scion 2 Aasimar abomination. Next step - Dragon discipling and then I;ll have to decide between another five levels of Eldritch scion v.s 5 lvls of Eldritch Knight or a two-hander specialist for some neat bonuses in power attack mode. Happy in my own skin.

Dragon Disciple suuuucks

Just continue the Scion levels

 

[vazha]

That sounds really neat, the walking circus.

Meanwhile I abandoned all hopes of roleplaying an Ahmed and am presently having an absolute blast with my Pal 2 / Scaled Fist 1/ Eldritch Scion 2 Aasimar abomination. Next step - Dragon discipling and then I;ll have to decide between another five levels of Eldritch scion v.s 5 lvls of Eldritch Knight or a two-hander specialist for some neat bonuses in power attack mode. Happy in my own skin.

Dragon Disciple suuuucks

Just continue the Scion levels

Hm. Why is that? I plan to reap all the benefits from it: stat bonuses, powers, resistances and then gracefully abuse the transformation spell. What's the chink in my armour?

 

[Yosharian]

snip

Elf
Str 16
Dex 19
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 7
Cha 7

This could work... unless you hate elves

Straight into TWF + trip, put one point into dex and the rest into str

Be aware there's a bug at the moment where your Mutagen prevents you from casting your high level extracts, hopefully they'll fix it

 

[Yosharian]

That sounds really neat, the walking circus.

Meanwhile I abandoned all hopes of roleplaying an Ahmed and am presently having an absolute blast with my Pal 2 / Scaled Fist 1/ Eldritch Scion 2 Aasimar abomination. Next step - Dragon discipling and then I;ll have to decide between another five levels of Eldritch scion v.s 5 lvls of Eldritch Knight or a two-hander specialist for some neat bonuses in power attack mode. Happy in my own skin.

Dragon Disciple suuuucks

Just continue the Scion levels

Hm. Why is that? I plan to reap all the benefits from it: stat bonuses, powers, resistances and then gracefully abuse the transformation spell. What's the chink in my armour?

BAB loss
Spellcasting loss
Int and Con useless to Scion
AC doesn't stack with Draconic bloodline AC (or shouldn't)
Useless Kn. Arcana requirements
Loss of Scion ability progression (this alone is huge)

Dragon Disciple is awful

 

[Yosharian]

This could work... unless you hate elves

Well I do hate elves, but I love the idea of a Dr. Heckyll and mr. Jive type character. Sounds great. Thanks.

Well any race can work, but Elves get some useful weapon proficiencies and a bonus to two key stats.

But to be fair, you'll probably want to get Martial Proficiency anyway.

If you go with another race, go with less Dex and use a belt to get 19 Dex instead. Assuming you want TWF, otherwise just leave Dex at 14 and pump Strength.

 

[Yosharian]

That sounds really neat, the walking circus.

Meanwhile I abandoned all hopes of roleplaying an Ahmed and am presently having an absolute blast with my Pal 2 / Scaled Fist 1/ Eldritch Scion 2 Aasimar abomination. Next step - Dragon discipling and then I;ll have to decide between another five levels of Eldritch scion v.s 5 lvls of Eldritch Knight or a two-hander specialist for some neat bonuses in power attack mode. Happy in my own skin.

Dragon Disciple suuuucks

Just continue the Scion levels

Hm. Why is that? I plan to reap all the benefits from it: stat bonuses, powers, resistances and then gracefully abuse the transformation spell. What's the chink in my armour?

If you go DD your net spellcasting progression is at -6, so you'll be a 14th level Scion. You won't even get Transformation

Also, 'chink'? Plz don't be racist

 

[Shadenuat]

What's even Eldritch Knight's thing in this game? Compared to cheating all-in-one-package Magus.

I was very disappointed when I found out Magus just lol ignores armor penalty as he goes through levels and ends up in full plate no problem; it defeats my personal ideas on what fighter/mages should be going around with spells.

 

[vazha]

That sounds really neat, the walking circus.

Meanwhile I abandoned all hopes of roleplaying an Ahmed and am presently having an absolute blast with my Pal 2 / Scaled Fist 1/ Eldritch Scion 2 Aasimar abomination. Next step - Dragon discipling and then I;ll have to decide between another five levels of Eldritch scion v.s 5 lvls of Eldritch Knight or a two-hander specialist for some neat bonuses in power attack mode. Happy in my own skin.

Dragon Disciple suuuucks

Just continue the Scion levels

Hm. Why is that? I plan to reap all the benefits from it: stat bonuses, powers, resistances and then gracefully abuse the transformation spell. What's the chink in my armour?

If you go DD your net spellcasting progression is at -6, so you'll be a 14th level Scion. You won't even get Transformation

Also, 'chink'? Plz don't be racist

Chink - An narrow opening and vunerable area in one's armor that the opponent will usually aim for. This term relies on "chink" in the sense of "a crack or gap," a meaning dating from about 1400 and used figuratively since the mid-1600s.

As for the rest of your arguments
How on earth will I be a lvl 14 spellcaster? 1 scion spellcasting (second lvl) + 9 DD + 5 lvls of ES or EK. this makes 15 lvls. To cast transfomation I need to be what, lvl 12 spellcaster, no?
As for the rest:
"BAB loss" - First of all, even if I were to continue ES, I d still get medium BABs, second - transformation and other transmutation spells will come to my rescue.
"Spellcasting loss" - only spellcasting I need with this build (I'm wielding twohanders) is a couple of good touch spells for melee opponents (more susceptible to spells than a duelling mage would be) and couple of transmutation cantrips.
"Int and Con useless to Scion" - And? I have minimum int and wisdom and 10 con. So far so good. Pal charisma saves help.
AC doesn't stack with Draconic bloodline AC (or shouldn't) - it does stack alright, and I don't see a reason why it shouldn't - one bonus comes from bloodline, another from being a disciple to a dragon, no? :armenian accent:
"Useless Kn. Arcana requirements" - that much is true. although so far the only useful skill for my dude has been persuasion. happy with that.
"Loss of Scion ability progression" (this alone is huge) - I had a look at those and think there is not much to write home about. by far the most important ability - cast spell & melee hit you get on lvl second and there is no progression for that one. sure, upgrading your weapon is nice but there are other ways of doing that.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

myself i plan on doing enchantment caster with some light crossbow splash. Archeologist from the look of it is better at rogueing than rogue (with exception of sneak, i cant remember what was the issue with that one.). He get bonuses to search like rogue, but then extra to trickery.


I did in fact play around a bit but im shelving my experience until proper documentation. I plan to have archeologist and another regular bard in party. I think of my PC as cc caster/skill monkey first, some dmg later. With all the temporary bonuses I expect to be able to contribute to dmg against tought bosses in short bursts.

Archeologist brings nothing terribly useful to the table, sacrifices one of the Bard's best abilities, and isn't particularly good at Persuasion. "lockpicking, trapfinding and stealth" can be done by any class.

Thank you very much for answers & information, seems there a things that should be considered.