Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[oldmanpaco]

Goddamnit CotW mod nerfs bards hard. Takes away five (5!) feats and replaces them with shitty skill bonuses. What the hell. Now I need to rethink my whole party.

edit: It also "fixes" lingering performance.

edit2: Well going to try a dirge bard. See if crap like Cacophonous Call or Confusion really effect the undead.

 

[Desiderius]

Goddamnit CotW mod nerfs bards hard. Takes away five (5!) feats and replaces them with shitty skill bonuses. What the hell. Now I need to rethink my whole party.

edit: It also "fixes" lingering performance.

edit2: Well going to try a dirge bard. See if crap like Cacophonous Call or Confusion really effect the undead.

Not just skill bonuses (they're far from shitty), masterpieces. Mass Longstrider (Triple Step) is one of the most powerful things you can do and you get it really early where it matters. Jesus, you people have no imagination.

But yeah, try out dirge for us. Arrowsong is cool too.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Not just skill bonuses (they're far from shitty), masterpieces. Mass Longstrider (Triple Step) is one of the most powerful things you can do and you get it really early where it matters.

Eh maybe. Didn't level up or anything or really look at the masterpieces. Just saw that all the rouge tricks had been replaced with skills bonuses.

Anyway just mercs so maybe I'll go back and try the standard bard if dirge sucks.

edit: Just leveled up a merc and realized it would have been nice if the tool tips or class description had mentioned masterpieces. All it shows is versatile performance which just increases your skills (yes significantly but still). Have to click the show unavailable feats when selecting the first versatile performance at lvl 2 to even realize you can get masterpieces at lvl 6. And yes longstrider is pretty good. Feels like I'm forever coming up just a few feet of being able to move and attack in the opening round of combat. Also has masterpieces for haste and something to apply shaken to undead.

All of this is hidden behind the need to get to lvl 6 in a mod with no documentation. Fucking modders.

 

[Desiderius]

Rogue stuff of course is great (although CotW also fixed the Combat Feat spam, only allowed one of those under Rogue Talents), but there you're playing a hybrid Bard/Rogue instead this way you're either focused on dominating on skills (including Persuasion to really beef up your Dazzling Display) or being a super Bard. The other Masterpieces looked a little clunky but never got a chance to try them. Of course Arrowsong and Dirge give you your own things to focus on.

 

[Desiderius]

Not just skill bonuses (they're far from shitty), masterpieces. Mass Longstrider (Triple Step) is one of the most powerful things you can do and you get it really early where it matters.

Eh maybe. Didn't level up or anything or really look at the masterpieces. Just saw that all the rouge tricks had been replaced with skills bonuses.

Anyway just mercs so maybe I'll go back and try the standard bard if dirge sucks.

edit: Just leveled up a merc and realized it would have been nice if the tool tips or class description had mentioned masterpieces. All it shows is versatile performance which just increases your skills (yes significantly but still). Have to click the show unavailable feats when selecting the first versatile performance at lvl 2 to even realize you can get masterpieces at lvl 6. And yes longstrider is pretty good. Feels like I'm forever coming up just a few feet of being able to move and attack in the opening round of combat. Also has masterpieces for haste and something to apply shaken to undead.

All of this is hidden behind the need to get to lvl 6 in a mod with no documentation. Fucking modders.

Pretty sure you get Triple Step at lvl 2.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Not just skill bonuses (they're far from shitty), masterpieces. Mass Longstrider (Triple Step) is one of the most powerful things you can do and you get it really early where it matters.

Eh maybe. Didn't level up or anything or really look at the masterpieces. Just saw that all the rouge tricks had been replaced with skills bonuses.

Anyway just mercs so maybe I'll go back and try the standard bard if dirge sucks.

edit: Just leveled up a merc and realized it would have been nice if the tool tips or class description had mentioned masterpieces. All it shows is versatile performance which just increases your skills (yes significantly but still). Have to click the show unavailable feats when selecting the first versatile performance at lvl 2 to even realize you can get masterpieces at lvl 6. And yes longstrider is pretty good. Feels like I'm forever coming up just a few feet of being able to move and attack in the opening round of combat. Also has masterpieces for haste and something to apply shaken to undead.

All of this is hidden behind the need to get to lvl 6 in a mod with no documentation. Fucking modders.

Pretty sure you get Triple Step at lvl 2.

No all you get at lvl 2 are the skill options. You can't even see that masterpieces are part of the versatile performance options unless you click the show all feats and even then you cannot see what feats are under masterpieces until you hit lvl 6. The required lvl is either bard 3 or 4 but since you only get the options to pick them at 2 , 6, 10 ect, that's what you need to wait for. Unless you can pick them as a regular feat and not through versatile performance but that seems wasteful.

 

[Desiderius]

BTW, always click show all feats to plan ahead.

I’ll check tonight. I know I had it in ch 1.

 

[oldmanpaco]

BTW, always click show all feats to plan ahead.

I’ll check tonight. I know I had it in ch 1.

Yeah I know. Was just irritated in not getting rouge tricks at lvl 2 so I quit the lvl up to see what was going on.

You can get to lvl 6 in chapter 1 right?

 

[oldmanpaco]

I’ll check tonight. I know I had it in ch 1.

Just checked and you can take the longstrider masterpieces as a regular feat at lvl 3. But then you are giving up a regular feat and using two versatile performance options for skill points unless you want that defensive fighting masterpiece at lvl 6 for a melee bard.

Anyway that Clamor of Heaven masterpiece you get at 10 look like an adequate replacement for dirge that works on evil and undead. But fay are neutral and they are the biggest pain in the ass so IDK how useful in practice.

 

[Desiderius]

I’ll check tonight. I know I had it in ch 1.

Just checked and you can take the longstrider masterpieces as a regular feat at lvl 3. But then you are giving up a regular feat and using two versatile performance options for skill points unless you want that defensive fighting masterpiece at lvl 6 for a melee bard.

Anyway that Clamor of Heaven masterpiece you get at 10 look like an adequate replacement for dirge that works on evil and undead. But fay are neutral and they are the biggest pain in the ass so IDK how useful in practice.

Fey aren’t immune to fear and have lowish Fort saves so are less of a concern. Just need a plan for gaze attax.

 

[Desiderius]

The skill boosts are very good as well if you compare to equivalent feats.

 

[oldmanpaco]

The skill boosts are very good as well if you compare to equivalent feats.

Yeah but I'd rather take something like Rapid Shot over boosting Trickery. Its a 6 person party and there is no reason you need one character to master every skill.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I'm getting ready to pick-up Ekundayo to complete my party line-up on this play through. I want to use him as an archer, but I don't really want to mess around with a pet. I'm probably going to retrain him as a fighter, but I'm also considering slayer so he can stack sneak attacks on flat-footed enemies. Menace feats will be prominent in my party as well. Anyone care to share their thoughts?

 

[oldmanpaco]

I'm getting ready to pick-up Ekundayo to complete my party line-up on this play through. I want to use him as an archer, but I don't really want to mess around with a pet. I'm probably going to retrain him as a fighter, but I'm also considering slayer so he can stack sneak attacks on flat-footed enemies. Menace feats will be prominent in my party as well. Anyone care to share their thoughts?

He's a good dog.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

Anybody tried Deliverer\Two handed fighter? I am no sure its survivable but I wanted something Paladinesque but without dip into Paladin. I might just say whatever and go full Pally or Wizard.

 

[Desiderius]

THF splash doesn’t buy you much. Deliverer doesn’t add that much over regular Slayer either.

Straight-up classes are stronger in Pathfinder than D&D 3.5 and Slayer is very good. Vanguard gives you Uncanny Dodge and some group buffs, but base class is very solid.

Full BAB + strong Advanced Rogue Talents + Studied Target + Combat Style Feats + some Sneak dice.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

THF splash doesn’t buy you much. Deliverer doesn’t add that much over regular Slayer either.

Straight-up classes are stronger in Pathfinder than D&D 3.5 and Slayer is very good. Vanguard gives you Uncanny Dodge and some group buffs, but base class is very solid.

Full BAB + strong Advanced Rogue Talents + Studied Target + Combat Style Feats + some Sneak dice.

Mainly for Deliverer sneaks and Anathema, and then level 7 THF. I might see the damage being good but lose all the utility and party wrecking shit like mark of justice on a single pally.

 

[Desiderius]

THF splash doesn’t buy you much. Deliverer doesn’t add that much over regular Slayer either.

Straight-up classes are stronger in Pathfinder than D&D 3.5 and Slayer is very good. Vanguard gives you Uncanny Dodge and some group buffs, but base class is very solid.

Full BAB + strong Advanced Rogue Talents + Studied Target + Combat Style Feats + some Sneak dice.

Mainly for Deliverer sneaks and Anathema, and then level 7 THF. I might see the damage being good but lose all the utility and party wrecking shit like mark of justice on a single pally.

Mark of Justice is win more. Pallys own evil foes by themselves. Deliverer abilities are overrated and can sometimes get you killed. 2d6 looks like a lot but doesn’t end up being much.

My Slayer playthrough I did Two-weapon ranged.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

Very well. My MO since Baldurs Gate is Evil Wizard run, Pally Good run so okay.

 

[Desiderius]

Very well. My MO since Baldurs Gate is Evil Wizard run, Pally Good run so okay.

Straight up Pally is very solid. I used Hospitaler so I didn’t have to have Cleric past midgame and was very satisfied. Divine Weapon Bond becomes a monster.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Anybody tried Psychic from CotW?
Hows the spell list? Does it get mirror image, displacement and those great survivability buffs?

 

[RK47]

Can someone list some buff spells that will affect Animate dead skeletons if the Sorcerer caster takes up Undead Bloodline?
I'm trying to choose between Jaethal Herald Caller or Sorcerer (Undead Bloodline)

Which one do you think has better potential?

 

[gurugeorge]

OK, I've played enough with the game as-is (+QOL mods), I've bitten the bullet and gotten CoTW and Proper Flanking 2 installed, as well as Favoured Class and holic's AI mod. I temporarily installed an earlier version of CoTW a while back and had a bit of fun with a witch merc, and I'm now curious about the incredible amount of choices this combo makes available. I'd love to have some of the stuff from Eldritch Arcana too (I seem to remember it had some neat things), but it doesn't play with CoTW any more (and Favoured class does a lot of the same things re. extra Traits anyway, which was one of the best things about EA).

(Btw, my thoughts on Owlcat's TB implementation - very nice, more polished and "solid"-feeling than hsinyucuan's in terms of graphics and audio fx, and certainly functional. It's missing a lot of niceties that hsinyucuan's mod had, but I never used them so I'm not missing them, meanwhile it adds a dotted "path," which is actually very useful, especially for setting up proper flanking.)

ATM just playing around with a Sensei main - great class for a main btw, especially if you're sick to death of Linzi's piping voice But even just the flanking mod and the AI mod together make the game feel quite different (the AI mod makes a bee line for your caster/cleric/bard quite often, without it being so often that it's irritating). Quite a bit richer tactically, which goes well with turn-based shenanigans (and ofc total camera control from Bag of Tricks).

But I haven't yet started a specific CoTW character.

Any favourite CoTW builds out there?

 

[LannTheStupid]

Modding is cheating.

Even "QoL" modding is cheating to some extent. I know only one QoL mod that could be considered as some kind of rebalance.

 

[NJClaw]

Modding is cheating.

Even "QoL" modding is cheating to some extent. I know only one QoL mod that could be considered as some kind of rebalance.