Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Trashos]

Well, as I see it, a pure caster has to beat saves and, as such, solve the encounters. So what an EK is going to do: try to replace AT (Octavia) while keeping the damage potential of AT? Is it possible?

I am replacing Octavia, but I am hopefully getting an additional worthy off-tank for what I am losing.

The group is going to be Jaethal(TSS tank), Okbo(tank), Reggie/NokNok (off tank), Harrim (priest/off-tank), Jubilost in the role of Jubilost, Ekun (archer), EK (wizard/off-tank). I am not comfortable with having too many characters who cannot off-tank at all (and this group already has Ekun and Jubilost who cannot off tank), and I believe that this is going to be a mighty group that has not much to fear.

Seriously, respec an old save and try the double Swords. I don't think you'll like it and you really don't have the feats to blow for two-weapon. Just go Elven Curve Blade or STR-based two-hander Human reach.

I haven't actually started the EK playthrough, I am still in theorycrafting! I am playing a Sword Saint currently.

No, I prefer DEX characters to STR, even though I know that most people here prefer STR due to Legendary Proportions (but Legendary Proportions comes about at around Ch5!). The weapon is up to debate, but there is an awesome +5 Dueling Sword one can get in Ch3, so...

The dual wielding thing is certainly an experiment, I will see how it goes.

 

[bec de corbin]

Doesn't the Aldori prestige class give you feats related to Dueling swords for free? I forget exactly what it does because I never take it.

 

[Desiderius]

No, STR-based is good right away because of the way it works with two-handed. Enlarge + Reach and you're good. By the time you get 1.5 Power Attack midgame you're good. It's what I use with Tristian and he starts with 9-STR.

You're mixing up tank and melee, you've already got enough melee with the pet (and maybe too much in tight spaces), and EK does nothing to make you more survivable in combat in any case. EK ranged is fine but you don't have sneaks or weapon training or studied target so you're sort of a wash with AT in that case.

Sounds like what you'd really enjoy is ES. I had a ball with my MC ES.

 

[LannTheStupid]

The group is going to be Jaethal(TSS tank), Okbo(tank), Reggie/NokNok (off tank), Harrim (priest/off-tank), Jubilost in the role of Jubilost, Ekun (archer), EK (wizard/off-tank).

In Pink Eye monk videos (which, I hope, still are on youtube) 2 tanks are enough to keep the backline safe in most of the ancounters at least in Chapter 1. He used Valerie and multiclassed Linzi. On Unfair. So... may be add more damage or CC instead of more protection?

 

[Trashos]

Doesn't the Aldori prestige class give you feats related to Dueling swords for free? I forget exactly what it does because I never take it.

Aldori Defender lets you take Weapon Focus(Dueling Sword) from lvl1 without wasting a feat on Proficiency.

Sounds like what you'd really enjoy is ES. I had a ball with my MC ES.

ES is already covered by Reggie, so I do not see the point of doing the same with the MC. I agree that it is a good class.

You're mixing up tank and melee, you've already got enough melee with the pet (and maybe too much in tight spaces), and EK does nothing to make you more survivable in combat in any case. EK ranged is fine but you don't have sneaks or weapon training or studied target so you're sort of a wash with AT in that case.

I do not really use Harrim as an off-tank in general, he is there with a xbow and he just tanks if someone goes for my backline (so his job is protecting Ekun and Jubilost). Harrim is the backline off-tank, so to speak.

Afaic, one of the main dangers in Kingmaker is when the backline is attacked. This doesn't happen all the time, but it happens frequently enough to be important, especially on Hard and above. There are also several occasions in the game where the party is surrounded and attacked from all sides.

Right, in tight places the EK will stay back and blink-blink with his cantrips. EK will be survivable due to mirror image, blur, greater invisibility etc.

 

[Trashos]

n Pink Eye monk videos (which, I hope, still are on youtube) 2 tanks are enough to keep the backline safe in most of the ancounters at least in Chapter 1. He used Valerie and multiclassed Linzi. On Unfair. So... may be add more damage or CC instead of more protection?

I do not need more damage. CC is always nice of course, but I believe that I have it covered with main, Harrim, and optionally Jubilost (he has a lot of CC bombs, although it is generally more efficient to use his damaging bombs).

Not sure right now if 2 tanks are enough in Ch1 (I think you need more in the early temple with Tartuccio, for example, or each time a tank falls). But see my answer above for the general usefulness of off-tanks.

 

[Trashos]

No, STR-based is good right away because of the way it works with two-handed. Enlarge + Reach and you're good. By the time you get 1.5 Power Attack midgame you're good. It's what I use with Tristian and he starts with 9-STR.

I can see the occasional usefulness of 2-handed weapons, but 2 handed fighters are not very survivable in occasions where you do not control the battlefield. Which is a big thing for me. I can see it for Tristian, but I generally do not use 2 handed fighters. (Amiri, as a barbarian, can dish out a lot of damage, for example, but if she is directly attacked she is toast).

But for Tristian it can be OK in certain situations, I am OK with that.

 

[Desiderius]

No, STR-based is good right away because of the way it works with two-handed. Enlarge + Reach and you're good. By the time you get 1.5 Power Attack midgame you're good. It's what I use with Tristian and he starts with 9-STR.

I can see the occasional usefulness of 2-handed weapons, but 2 handed fighters are not very survivable in occasions where you do not control the battlefield. Which is a big thing for me. I can see it for Tristian, but I generally do not use 2 handed fighters. (Amiri, as a barbarian, can dish out a lot of damage, for example, but if she is directly attacked she is toast).

But for Tristian it can be OK in certain situations, I am OK with that.

Dude, you’ve got Mirror Image. The perfect solution to that exact problem. Cast/Demoralize/Dazzle first round then wade in. You’ll rarely be attacked let alone hit.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

I'm starting to Varnhold DLC for the first time and decided to create an unholy lawful evil eccleiuesurerergee (I don't care how it's spelled) mercenary nuker, any advices? I think fire domain is a must but I'm clueless about the other domain, also I want to use negative channel.

I’ve played an Asmodeus ~Ecclesitheurge~ with Fire primary and Trickery secondary and it’s fun. Fireballs for days and trickery has the poverty mirror image and a group invis.

 

[Desiderius]

ES = Eldritch Scoundrel

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Fireball has really satisfying haptics in this game. The bass, the pinch of screen shake, the screams and burnt corpses *kisses fingertips*

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

In Pink Eye monk videos (which, I hope, still are on youtube) 2 tanks are enough to keep the backline safe in most of the ancounters at least in Chapter 1. He used Valerie and multiclassed Linzi. On Unfair. So... may be add more damage or CC instead of more protection?

For me, 2 tank bros outflanking each other and then another who can charge (ideally pounce) a caster or whatever is a pretty good take all comers load out.

If the two tanks have mirror image, then most fights start with them closing their eyes and walking out into the middle of the fray lol

 

[Trashos]

Dude, you’ve got Mirror Image. The perfect solution to that exact problem. Cast/Demoralize/Dazzle first round then wade in. You’ll rarely be attacked let alone hit.

Well, I lose some survivability though, to gain what? Damage? Damage is the only thing that I do not need. I really do not know why everyone is so obsessed with damage in this game. An average party (just do not screw it up royally) has tons of damage.

ES = Eldritch Scoundrel

Ah, I see. I do not know much about EScoundrel, tbh. I am reading that he only has a Magus spell progression, which is what I am trying to upgrade.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Re: caster chat, I full respecced Kanerah into a V1/W3 Arcane Trickster and I think she is my most fun character now. Something exciting about sneak attacking with quickened and empowered rays and battering people into walls. I picked a pupu platter of evocations rather than all of just one spell, so it feels creative occasionally trying to pick amongst fireball/shout/ray etc. Crimson Counselor for 3 more rays or 2 more fireballs cast at her level.

This all just sounds like Octavia AT, and well, it pretty much is, but the cool part is Kanerah can just go off and then when she's drained I switch to Kalikke (water/air kin) as sort of switching to the gas power generator when the lights go out. Kalikke basically does the same or more destruction but without the special sauce. She can even keep haste up at the end of a long dungeon haul.

This is kind of cheatery since I used the full respec mod to do it, but honestly I'm probably gimping myself because just using them both as deadly earth kineticists is way more OP

Edit: I think I'm going to spec Octavia into some sort of martial caster.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

ES = Eldritch Scoundrel

What's the pitch for ES over AT? I've thought about making Octavia one.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Aldori Defender lets you take Weapon Focus(Dueling Sword) from lvl1 without wasting a feat on Proficiency.

Afaic, one of the main dangers in Kingmaker is when the backline is attacked. This doesn't happen all the time, but it happens frequently enough to be important, especially on Hard and above. There are also several occasions in the game where the party is surrounded and attacked from all sides.

In my experience on hard, summons work even better as screeners for these types of encounters. Jaethal's skeleton harem or a druid spontaneous casting a bunch of animals will buy you a couple rounds to kill whatever and change formation.

 

[Desiderius]

ES = Eldritch Scoundrel

What's the pitch for ES over AT? I've thought about making Octavia one.

You can’t. She has a Rogue level.

It just has absolutely everything. Don’t sleep on Trapfinding. Double Debilitation may be the strongest ability in the game.

 

[Desiderius]

Aldori Defender lets you take Weapon Focus(Dueling Sword) from lvl1 without wasting a feat on Proficiency.

Afaic, one of the main dangers in Kingmaker is when the backline is attacked. This doesn't happen all the time, but it happens frequently enough to be important, especially on Hard and above. There are also several occasions in the game where the party is surrounded and attacked from all sides.

In my experience on hard, summons work even better as screeners for these types of encounters. Jaethal's skeleton harem or a druid spontaneous casting a bunch of animals will buy you a couple rounds to kill whatever and change formation.

He’s not killing things in a timely fashion.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Sorry for googling the thread, but about how many feats does a good shield twf need? Curious if a shield twf gish is practical.

 

[Desiderius]

Sorry for googling the thread, but about how many feats does a good shield twf need? Curious if a shield twf gish is practical.

It’s practical but unspectacular because it isn’t that well supported on the item side. There’s a bashing shield but they messed up the design.

You can get there via Fighter, Combat Style Feats (Ranger/Slayer) or Crusader.

I prefer Crusader for the fast spell progression and the nice self buffs. Inquisitor might work too but feats are tight.

 

[Trashos]

In my experience on hard, summons work even better as screeners for these types of encounters. Jaethal's skeleton harem or a druid spontaneous casting a bunch of animals will buy you a couple rounds to kill whatever and change formation.

I do not use summons. I accept their existence because other people like them, but I do not use them myself (and neither did I in the Baldur's Gates).

I already kinda feel like a cheat for using Ekun's pet.

He’s not killing things in a timely fashion.

Too much RNG to depend on that.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Self-deprecation leads to weird builds.

I need to fast some days and make Psychokineticist Jaethal.

 

[Desiderius]

That would be busted in half.

Now base Kineticist would be something.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

I do not use summons. I accept their existence because other people like them, but I do not use them myself (and neither did I in the Baldur's Gates).

I see. Well, my plan B after summons is an arcane caster with mirror image up and a quickened displacement. I feel like this makes a better off-tank than Harrim and the likes absorbing critical hits, even with their armor. The nice thing about an AT as off-tank is they probably have really high dex, too, so practically speaking they are close to being armored anyways. False life and Aid if you can afford the slots can lower the odds of getting chunked with a lucky roll. I'm a cheesy power gamer and so I'm running an AT and a cleric of asmodeus with trickery, so between the two I have two robii who can summon up a mirror image, become invisible, etc in a pinch.

For situations where I'm surrounded, having feather step (mass) up and then using a difficult terrain spell can buy a lot of time and it doesn't have a save so that can be a nice oh shit button.

Sometimes I have dimension door memorized for getting past locked doors and I suppose that could be a plan C but it's never really come to that.

Anyways, I respect self-imposed constraints but I think there are a lot of options in this game for passive crowd control.

 

[Desiderius]

In my experience on hard, summons work even better as screeners for these types of encounters. Jaethal's skeleton harem or a druid spontaneous casting a bunch of animals will buy you a couple rounds to kill whatever and change formation.

I do not use summons. I accept their existence because other people like them, but I do not use them myself (and neither did I in the Baldur's Gates).

I already kinda feel like a cheat for using Ekun's pet.

He’s not killing things in a timely fashion.

Too much RNG to depend on that.

Summons and pets (outside of Smilodon) are well balanced. The opportunity costs are non-neglible.

Giving a xbow to an 8 DEX toon has a way of bringing the RNG into play where it need not be.