Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Zboj Lamignat]

How shit would Octavia be as an eldritch archer? Do her wiz/at spells even work with magi ranged spellstrike?

 

[bec de corbin]

How shit would Octavia be as an eldritch archer? Do her wiz/at spells even work with magi ranged spellstrike?

I haven't tried that, but considering a lot of damage spells are already ranged touch, I'm not sure you'll really be better off with that than just doing regular eldritch trickster with her. Remember, flanking is pretty much constant so the bonus sneak attack damage on your spells is basically always going to trigger.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

OK, to specify, I meant EA + AT. Mostly 2lvls of EA for ranged spellstrike and being able to spam acid splash with bow during trash fights.

 

[oldmanpaco]

So R1/EA2/W7/AT10? I'm sure you can squeeze another class in there! Maybe a monk splash? Everyone loves monk splashes.

 

[Desiderius]

How shit would Octavia be as an eldritch archer? Do her wiz/at spells even work with magi ranged spellstrike?

She’s a lot better Sword Saint, EK, or Aldori Defender/Swordlord/Duelist. R4 are the best levels in the game for a melee toon and are wasted at range. Splashes hurt a lot less if you’re not worried about beating saves.

Even if you get non-Magi spells into your Magi spellbook via MT you still can’t spell strike with them.

 

[Haplo]

OK, to specify, I meant EA + AT. Mostly 2lvls of EA for ranged spellstrike and being able to spam acid splash with bow during trash fights.

Ranged Spellstrike isn't cool, as you're downgrading highly accurate ranged touch attacks into far less accurate regular ranged attacks (and the spell is lost if you miss).

 

[Desiderius]

OK, to specify, I meant EA + AT. Mostly 2lvls of EA for ranged spellstrike and being able to spam acid splash with bow during trash fights.

I’ve done it. Probably not worth it since it makes all your attax -2 AB and is kind of clunky. You really don’t want to hurt your caster level if you’re trying to penetrate resistances and beat saves.

 

[Desiderius]

OK, to specify, I meant EA + AT. Mostly 2lvls of EA for ranged spellstrike and being able to spam acid splash with bow during trash fights.

Ranged Spellstrike isn't cool, as you're downgrading highly accurate ranged touch attacks into far less accurate regular ranged attacks (and the spell is lost if you miss).

You do get iteratives though. Spellstrike just gives you another one.

If you play her straight up EA 18 she’ll do fine, the class is just poorly implemented.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

The Eldritch Scoundrel intrigues me, but it's hard to pick over Arcane Trickster, especially when they have Accomplished Sneak Attacker cheese. I can see some appeal to an ES/SS hybrid, but the reduced (half) volume of Rogue Talents, and half sneak attack really hurts. There are way better options to gish, skill monkey, spellcast, or even just be a generalist.

 

[Desiderius]

Eldritch Scoundrel straight up ends up being a beast, but it isn’t available to Octavia.

ES is what EK wants to be. Accomplished Sneak Attacker isn't cheese, it sucks. By midgame Sense Vitals does three times as much damage. Feats are worth way more than 3.5 situational damage that doesn’t multiply on crits.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

It's cheese because it allows you to avoid two levels of Rogue tax on your way to Arcane Trickster. An AT is almost a strict upgrade to a single class wizard.

 

[Desiderius]

Not really. I thought that until I played pure Wiz. Damage is easy, beating saves nd filling out your spell book is hard. Don’t sleep on those bonus feats.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

You lose 2 feats, which can amount to 2 DC. With the amount of bloat in this game, one could argue either the necessity or pointlessness of eking out every point. Some class features might be diluted, but most are very meh--especially with the easy access to relatively abundant metamagic rods in this game. Instead you get tons of skill points, nice sneak attack damage, a nice improved invisibility ability, and the almighty surprise spells. It's really a no brainier.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

OK, to specify, I meant EA + AT. Mostly 2lvls of EA for ranged spellstrike and being able to spam acid splash with bow during trash fights.

Ranged Spellstrike isn't cool, as you're downgrading highly accurate ranged touch attacks into far less accurate regular ranged attacks (and the spell is lost if you miss).

Well, yeah, but you get the extra attacks and bonus from weapon enchantment (plus magus is kinda good at boosting ab). What I really want to know is if I get just 2 EA levels, will all the wiz/at spells actually work with ranged spellstrike.

 

[gurugeorge]

I love the EA, the sheer volume of fire + the enchantment bonuses (acc and damage types) is relentless. You almost feel sorry for the mobs

 

[Desiderius]

You lose 2 feats, which can amount to 2 DC. With the amount of bloat in this game, one could argue either the necessity or pointlessness of eking out every point. Some class features might be diluted, but most are very meh--especially with the easy access to relatively abundant metamagic rods in this game. Instead you get tons of skill points, nice sneak attack damage, a nice improved invisibility ability, and the almighty surprise spells. It's really a no brainier.

I'm just saying you're playing the whole game a level ahead with all those extra spells, easier time with spell pen, half of the time you've got spells that the AT doesn't, and not just any spells but the most powerful. Skills Points? You're an INT class you've got those out the wazoo.

Even with Sneaks attached Rays spells are just a waste of time in almost all cases. I'm outdamaging those on other toons with regular attax. Just chuck a bunch of nukes and disable shit.

 

[Desiderius]

Metamagic Rods are a royal pain in the ass.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Applying sneak attack damage to each ray in a single round is a big deal. Adding the sneak damage to an AoE keeps them and your lower levels spell slots relevant mid-late game. This additional damage nearly compensates for all of the HP increase D&D systems experienced when moving from 2E to 3E. Surprise Spells makes blasting great again. While I prefer CC, I like being able to do both. Beyond that, Rods are just gravy. They are certainly not to be written off at the very least. I don't really have a problem with fiddling with metamagic rods, as wizards in Kingmaker function like potions--nice to have when you need them, but mostly get carried around. I obviated the 1 level of caster class lag by periodically turning on "skill user gets the XP", which kept him ahead of the curve. If you're playing with mods that offer Magical Knack, you don't even lose that caster level. The Invisible Thief ability is better than any feat you'll get, not just for setting up surprise spells, but is a panic button against most of the game's enemies should they get too close.

If PF was based on D&D 3E where (Greater) Spell Focuses granted +2 DC each, you'd be correct. But as it is, the AT class features are very much worth the 1 spellcaster level and 2 feats (3 if you count Accomplished Sneak Attacker) trade off.

 

[Desiderius]

I use the rods, but they’re still a pain. But seriously if you don’t need to attack touch and I usually don’t most of my ranged companions are out damaging Ray + sneak right now on regular attax. The numbers just aren’t there.

The numbers (and timeliness) are there on maxed nukes to the point where tacking sneaks onto them (which you don’t get to do until late anyway) is just gravy. I’m getting Spell Pen and Greater Spell Pen (and maybe allied spellcaster) before looking at focuses but on pure wiz even focus can reduce save chance by 20-50% if you’re high enough and making them save twice.

 

[Desiderius]

Speaking builds, is there a forum on here where you can get a recommendation for a gaming rig?

I just want low maintenance and to run shit for the next ten years.

 

[Delterius]

Are yall playing on latest patch or did you freeze your versions to the Pre-TB patch? I want to go back and finish this thing.

 

[Desiderius]

Latest patch.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I'm still playing 2.0.8, but going to update. May be it will kill my saves, and I will start anew!

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Thinking about respeccing my 2H Paladin MC to try something new. He's been fine, wrecks shit when he can smite, a place to put those fancy suits of armor to use, and like a potion rack of heals and bless weapon spells. But in fights where he doesn't get to smite, he's mostly a plain martial character but with less feats and tricks. I'm also starting to come around to the drawbacks of slower moving melee characters while everyone else is constantly applying threats at range. Finally, the difference in melee squishiness between a character who can cast mirror image vs single image plebs is so huge in this game. Paladin starts ugly crying when he runs across the screen to miss his one attack and ekundayo kills 4 different guys with his ranged sneak attacks including one I forgot was even there



A fast moving multi-image pouncing melee character would be godlike. I'm guessing that is something like a feyspeaker shifter or a barb with a dip in something? And a monk gish I suppose? Monks only get their pounce if they are unarmed though, I think. Haste is such an easy to come by huge melee boost.

A sword saint with vital strike and no armor penalties probably more than makes up for it, though, and has some neat tricks.

I might spec Harrim into a barbarian for a spin and to punish him for being eeyore.

 

[bec de corbin]

If you want a spellcasting melee guy you could just make a magus, I guess?