Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Trashos]

and my personal favourites, bastard swords

I know, Haplo. We all know.

Thanks for the response, but several things do not make sense to me.

Given that I am, indeed, DEX, I didn't have many choices for weapons. Rapier and Dueling Sword both fit and have a decent/great progression throughout the game, so my choice was limited.

A Sword Saint does not wear armor, why would I not go DEX? Yes, I can get all the buffs and the bracers, but I get those while DEX too. I am not sure yet how the rest of the game goes in terms of AC (this is my 1st playthrough with SS), but at least the early game would have been a nightmare if I had gone STR.

My stat points have gone to DEX and secondarily to INT (for the sword saint bonuses and spells) and CHA (for the Persuasion bonuses). Some CON in there too for robustness. No points left for WIS.

At the level I am at, my Sword Saint can indeed tank. But this is the main character, too dangerous to be the front tank. Jaethal and Okbo do not even die, they are much better tanks than anyone else. That's why my SS is the off-tank (although when I face touch attacks, he naturally steps upfront).

In my mind, what happens at lvl19 is largely irrelevant. That's the endgame lvl. The trouble is getting there.

 

[Haplo]

Well, you basically did the AC ramp, Trashos - you dipped SF (and took Crane Style!). That is generally enough on a Sword Saint to soft cap AC, even on Unfair difficulty, even when focusing on Str (with a healthy Dex, like 14). You should have well surpassed this game's tanking AC curve. I once made an exercise to see how far I could go AC wise with my Str build (with monk dip)if I optimize for it (including bards Inspire Heroics song, using an amulet that other characters usually need more and such). Well, it was around 87 AC, so...

My experience was that early game certainly wasn't a nightmare (on Hard). Till level 5 I did tend to offtank and let Valerie go first. That changed pretty fast once I got Mirror Image and a few more AC/stat boosters (Octavia to cast Mage Armor for example).
Initially the "main tank" capacity was quite limited in time due to buffs expiring (or Images being destroyed), but that changed pretty fast with 2-3 copies of each key buff (Shield and Mirror Image, mostly - plus Enlarge, but that's not for AC) and a lesser Extend Rod.

And regarding available weaponry, the way Kingmaker works, you could indeed Dex wield a longsword or a falcata (with Slashing Grace). Estocs are fine weapons also, though their progression could be better.

 

[NJClaw]

A Sword Saint does not wear armor, why would I not go DEX?

To deal more damage. I know it's a trite saying, but "the best defense is a good offense" is particularly true in this game, and usually it's easier to deal more damage with Strength than Dexterity.

QUESTION: If I want to play a fighter/mage with emphasis on mage, what class should I be looking at?

Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Wizard +4 gets BAB +15 and 9th level spells, losing 2 caster levels.
Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Wizard +5 gets the same BAB, but is only 1 caster level behind a pure Wizard (however, you have to take the Martial Weapons Proficiency feat).

You can drop a Monk level in there if you want to boost your AC, or 2 Paladin levels to get a way to ignore damage reduction and boost your saves. You can also use the Sorcerer instead of the Wizard to get a character based on Charisma, but than you get a slower spells progression.

 

[Haplo]

Well, sorc delayed progression is a pain. But its not so bad here where taking Martial Proficiency grants access to all martial weapons and fulfills EK requirement.
On the other hand, the Bloodline bonuses can be handy for an EK.

 

[NJClaw]

Well, sorc delayed progression is a pain. But its not so bad here where taking Martial Proficiency grants access to all martial weapons and fulfills EK requirement.
On the other hand, the Bloodline bonuses can be handy for an EK.

But whenever I play a Sorcerer/EK my mind constantly tells me to add at least Paladin 2/Monk 1 so the progression slows even more, it's like an involuntary response at this point.

 

[Yosharian]

STR does better than DEX in terms of damage because of Legendary Proportions and Power Attack. That's why you go STR. Otherwise you would stick with DEX probably, the weapon choices alone wouldn't be enough of a factor in my opinion.

Of course there's an AC trade-off for that, arguably you should have enough AC from other sources but it's still a factor to be taken into account.

You ought to be getting at least a +6 bonus from CHA-to-AC by endgame.

 

[Utgard-Loki]

any way to make dragon kind useful instead of a detriment with a eldritch scion?

 

[Trashos]

Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Wizard +4 gets BAB +15 and 9th level spells, losing 2 caster levels.
Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Wizard +5 gets the same BAB, but is only 1 caster level behind a pure Wizard (however, you have to take the Martial Weapons Proficiency feat).

You can drop a Monk level in there if you want to boost your AC, or 2 Paladin levels to get a way to ignore damage reduction and boost your saves. You can also use the Sorcerer instead of the Wizard to get a character based on Charisma, but than you get a slower spells progression.

Thanks, that kind of suggestion is exactly what I was looking for!

How good would you say will that be in terms of melee fighting (which is the secondary role, mage being the main role)? Is it:
a) somebody reached my back rank, but this guy can tank for a few rounds until help comes?
b) casual off-tanking?
c) somewhere in between? something else entirely?

Playing on Hard with no summons btw (house rules).

A Sword Saint does not wear armor, why would I not go DEX?

To deal more damage. I know it's a trite saying, but "the best defense is a good offense" is particularly true in this game, and usually it's easier to deal more damage with Strength than Dexterity.

I know what you are saying, but the question is whether the SS needs more damage or more tanking ability. My main goal is not to reach best damage possible, my main goal is to have the party operate in the most efficient and flexible way possible for everything the game throws at me.

For example, I am finishing Vordakai's tomb now (lvl 13), and I have had zero battle-related reloads after reaching lvl 4 (the earlier game had blood, sweat, and tears, as traditionally happens in Kingmaker). Would I have done this well with a STR SS? Maybe, but I have a hard time believing it.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

From a combat perspective, sorcerers are a far better choice for Eldritch Knight. Worrying about access to tip-top spell tiers for a gish is a mistake.

 

[Trashos]

From a combat perspective, sorcerers are a far better choice for Eldritch Knight. Worrying about access to tip-top spell tiers for a gish is a mistake.

Why though? In what way do you find the sorcerer a better fit?

 

[Shadenuat]

Ok why is wild shape useful for druids? Seems very underwhelming.

For example, immunity to crits. Druid is one of the classes that can be a tank with just a little bit of investment while remaining basically full caster.
While having another tank as pet.
(also shambler form is p op early)

 

[Desiderius]

Wild shape is better than it looks because you get all of your attax up front (don’t have to wait for iteratives to kick in) and all attacks are at full BAB. It’s relatively stronger for a Feyspeaker (1/2 BAB) than other Druids (3/4 BAB) because the latter suck less at fighting in regular form.

Regrettably you’ll underperform your pet in raw power since they get very strong inherent bonuses.

 

[Desiderius]

From a combat perspective, sorcerers are a far better choice for Eldritch Knight. Worrying about access to tip-top spell tiers for a gish is a mistake.

Why though? In what way do you find the sorcerer a better fit?

You’re envisioning being primarily a caster, while he’s thinking you’ll mostly be attacking.

 

[RK47]

Yeah, I was looking at pet stats and find them crazy strong at a lower level when your characters only get 1 attack per round.
Anyway, I'm thinking of making Valerie into one scary bitch:

L1 - Tower Shield Specialist
L2 - Freebooter
L3 - Freebooter - Dazzling Display
L4 - Thug - Fearsome
L5 - Vivisectionist - +1d6 Sneak Attack +4 STR Mutagen and +2 AC
L6 - Vivisectionist - Feral Mutagen

Add Intimidating Prowess somewhere. I forgot.
Should I fill in feats with those Persuade Bonus or something else?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

From a combat perspective, sorcerers are a far better choice for Eldritch Knight. Worrying about access to tip-top spell tiers for a gish is a mistake.

Why though? In what way do you find the sorcerer a better fit?

Desiderius is correct. You're going to be attacking while buffed almost always. Spells fill in when you need some CC. Sorcerer gives you extra spells, flexibility you need when choosing what to cast, and CHA mixes with splashes far better than INT.

 

[gurugeorge]

Yeah, I was looking at pet stats and find them crazy strong at a lower level when your characters only get 1 attack per round.
Anyway, I'm thinking of making Valerie into one scary bitch:

L1 - Tower Shield Specialist
L2 - Freebooter
L3 - Freebooter - Dazzling Display
L4 - Thug - Fearsome
L5 - Vivisectionist - +1d6 Sneak Attack +4 STR Mutagen and +2 AC
L6 - Vivisectionist - Feral Mutagen

Add Intimidating Prowess somewhere. I forgot.
Should I fill in feats with those Persuade Bonus or something else?

Yeah quite a few Valerie builds are similar to that - e.g. Roahin, Nerd Commando.

 

[NJClaw]

Thanks, that kind of suggestion is exactly what I was looking for!

How good would you say will that be in terms of melee fighting (which is the secondary role, mage being the main role)? Is it:
a) somebody reached my back rank, but this guy can tank for a few rounds until help comes?
b) casual off-tanking?
c) somewhere in between? something else entirely?

Playing on Hard with no summons btw (house rules).

With buffs and magic items you can easily reach very high levels of AC, but you might need to rely on spells known by other characters (Barkskin from a Druid/Alchemist/Ranger/Cleric, and Magic Vestment and Shield of Faith from a Cleric). You have also access to Mirror Image and Displacement, so you can efficiently be a full-time tank. With a Monk 1/Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Sorcerer +3, you can just be on the frontline all the time.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah, I was looking at pet stats and find them crazy strong at a lower level when your characters only get 1 attack per round.
Anyway, I'm thinking of making Valerie into one scary bitch:

L1 - Tower Shield Specialist
L2 - Freebooter
L3 - Freebooter - Dazzling Display
L4 - Thug - Fearsome
L5 - Vivisectionist - +1d6 Sneak Attack +4 STR Mutagen and +2 AC
L6 - Vivisectionist - Feral Mutagen

Add Intimidating Prowess somewhere. I forgot.
Should I fill in feats with those Persuade Bonus or something else?

Yeah quite a few Valerie builds are similar to that - e.g. Roahin, Nerd Commando.

Those are... not good.

 

[bec de corbin]

Dazzling thug Valerie works fine at scaring everything if that's what you really want to do with her, I guess. I don't know why you're mixing so many classes like that though.

 

[Desiderius]

The main benefit of EK is fast spell progression so I feel like you want to be a caster?

This question is why I never really wanted to play it. Looks great on paper - ZOMG, full BAB AND fast spell progression! But you run into the bottleneck of action economy and you trade away the unique abilities and effects of other classes that make you good at one or the other.

Reminds me of Crusader a little bit there but at least Crusader had the unique Cleric self-buffs (the same ones making Ranged Jae so good).

 

[Desiderius]

So here’s the deal with full Inq: Judgements give you Sacred bonus, and the Divine spells give you Luck. These are both unique categories that it is hard for anyone else to hit before endgame. Add Greater Bane Weapon, WIS to Initiative, and Solo Tactics and the class is off the chain.

It’s malpractice to play her any other way.

 

[LannTheStupid]

How does full Inquisitor Jaethal survive first 4 levels if she is not ranged?

 

[Shadenuat]

she's immortal?
that's best part of tank-jaethal.
she can use longspears and longbows.

idk what is ppl problem with her, good companion.

Anyway, I'm thinking of making Valerie into one scary bitch

Valerie has a stat spread for any charisma caster, like scion, bard, and for kineticist. Building her just to wave stick around is kinda meh. you can do it as a bonus.

 

[Desiderius]

How does full Inquisitor Jaethal survive first 4 levels if she is not ranged?

Use your other companions. That is how the game is designed. I only started using her at lvl 13 for her Perception. Octavia gets Surprise Spells next lvl so will be replacing her soon.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Use your other companions.

But i like Jaethal and want her in the party from the start...

Well, I can always roll a Good/Animal cleric and a Sylvan Sorcerer as mercs.