Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Speaking builds, is there a forum on here where you can get a recommendation for a gaming rig?

I just want low maintenance and to run shit for the next ten years.

I built a new one in July after a motherboard death. Prices and parts availability are challenging because of geopolitical circumstances. I'm still happy with what I put together, it just took effort to source parts without tossing money around. I think the "Science" forum here is where people talk shop about their PCs.

 

[Desiderius]

I’m thinking about a pounce Barbarian with either Eldritch scoundrel or vivi to get some sneak attack dice and possibly mirror image. Or maybe crusader or inquis levels with trickery domain to get poverty mirror image. It’s weird but maybe it’s not bad, I don’t know.

Pounce is just so fun for melee

MI is obviously excellent but if you're not married to it, Slayer would give you Sneak Attack (and other good stuff) without losing BAB.

Sneaks are more for soloing. In a good team you’ll do plenty of damage without them. Barb especially all your stances (and your AC from Animal Totem on way to Pounce) tick up by level. Barb 10 is a nice package for Inspiring Ferocity + 3 for the team but no reason not to keep going to hit +4 at 12 and get more rage.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Yeah, I'm back at the drawing board. Was thinking of either:
- Mad Doge to at least 12 for pounce, 3 levels of Sacred Huntmeister for the feats. Sabretoothed tiger and i charge and trip things and get a lot of AOPs?
- Vanilla Barbarian to 20
- Barbarian to 10 for Pounce and some other martial. Vivi seems clunky. ES gets me sense vitals and mirror image but after a bunch of levels, not sure if that's really buying me much. Slayer might be cool to get the studied on sneak and TWF and just feats and BABs. Freebooter for buffs maybe. Maybe a cheeky Inquisitor bane and self buffs. I'm not sure if these will pay off over the later Barbarian perks though.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

I think it is probably down to either:

Barb 16+ for bonus crit multiplier and various other doodads
Mad Doge 14 Sacred Huntmeister 3 for pounce bros, trips and AOPs

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Ooo, pack tactics and outflank stack, giving you a total of 6 AB for flanking with your pet. I think the big question would be if we could both charge the same thing and chunk them. Maybe if the Barb has both enlarge and a reach weapon?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

If you're trying to capitalize on AoO, a reach weapon is the way to go. Since you're going to be in the thick of it with your pet, it will matter less though. There are many good 2-handed weapons that you can get early and switch around with. I'd avoid specializing in a reach weapon until you get one that you're sold on.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Ooo, pack tactics and outflank stack, giving you a total of 6 AB for flanking with your pet. I think the big question would be if we could both charge the same thing and chunk them. Maybe if the Barb has both enlarge and a reach weapon?

Actually, with some empirical testing, it doesn't look like it stacks so either they patched that or the people saying it stacked were not checking the logs.

The pet trip ability for Mad Doge is kind of silly for anything but one of the pets that has an intrinsic trip, since otherwise you have to forfeit your full attacks and do the trip as a standard action.

Semi-related, bites from barbarian and tiefling stack (lol). The trip from the winter cloak basically never will succeed without the supporting feats, so it ends up being about an extra ~15 damage a pop at a -5 AB.

 

[Haplo]

Ooo, pack tactics and outflank stack, giving you a total of 6 AB for flanking with your pet. I think the big question would be if we could both charge the same thing and chunk them. Maybe if the Barb has both enlarge and a reach weapon?

Actually, with some empirical testing, it doesn't look like it stacks so either they patched that or the people saying it stacked were not checking the logs.

The pet trip ability for Mad Doge is kind of silly for anything but one of the pets that has an intrinsic trip, since otherwise you have to forfeit your full attacks and do the trip as a standard action.

Semi-related, bites from barbarian and tiefling stack (lol). The trip from the winter cloak basically never will succeed without the supporting feats, so it ends up being about an extra ~15 damage a pop at a -5 AB.

Well, it also stacks with Vivi level 2 Feral Mutagen. And Dragon Disciple level 2 Dragon Bite. And Aspect of the Wolf spell. Collecting all 5 Bites might be a bit much, though.
Three is plenty:



Btw. if you like tripping (or other Combat Maneuvers), I strongly advise the Mastery fauchard. +5 CMB and gives you a free bonus attack whenever you land a CM (plus some extras, such as Freedom and CM immunity).

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Yeah, I played around a bit with a trip barbarian running around in the fields of barbarians vs brevoy and it felt very swingy. I had also brought Nok Nok and while I was taking my chances with trips he was just exploding things, heh.

I will give it another go when that fauchard becomes available, for sure.

Anyways Nok-Nok inspired me so I made the MC a Slayer 10 / Monk 1 / Thug 1 (4 eventually). Rogue for the uncanny dodge, debilitating, and keeping up the sneak attacks. TWF with menacing. Tiefling for a bite and to look goony. It’s kind of one note but it’s a lot of big numbers without using resources. The dreadful carnage procs are neat.


Question, do Outflank and Seize the Moment stack? A blender of Outflank, Seize, and Opportunist would be fun.

 

[Üstad]

Is seize the moment working properly at the moment? I'm considering to give it to my all front liners but I have it on 2 guys it seems it doesnt work, they only make attack of opportunity once.

 

[NJClaw]

Question, do Outflank and Seize the Moment stack? A blender of Outflank, Seize, and Opportunist would be fun.

Is seize the moment working properly at the moment? I'm considering to give it to my all front liners but I have it on 2 guys it seems it doesnt work, they only make attack of opportunity once.

Outflank and Seize the Moment simply don't "stack", meaning that you don't get 2 attacks of opportunity if you have both of them.

This is how it works in Kingmaker, and the general consensus is that it's working as intended.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Outflank and Seize the Moment simply don't "stack", meaning that you don't get 2 attacks of opportunity if you have both of them.

This is how it works in Kingmaker, and the general consensus is that it's working as intended.

So I had seen a screen shot with two instances of the "attack of opportunity" text and wanted to test it just to be sure. Here's what I found:

When you have both feats, and you crit, you will see two "Attack of Opportunity" texts pop up in game and in the log.

*dabbing forehead*

However, after the two consecutive AOP text lines in the log, you will only make one attack roll

*all sweat, emotions and souls leave body*

I tested it with 3 characters, 2 with both outflank and seize (and reflexes) and one with just outflank and reflexes. The characters with both feats got the two AOP texts but only one attack, the character with just outflank got just the one AOP text and one attack.

tl;dr is it doesn't work although it could look as if it were if you aren't reading the log

 

[Desiderius]

[Btw. if you like tripping (or other Combat Maneuvers), I strongly advise the Mastery fauchard. +5 CMB and gives you a free bonus attack whenever you land a CM (plus some extras, such as Freedom and CM immunity).

Wrath has second level spell Animal Aspect where one of the options is +4CMB. Eldritch Scoundrel definitely gets it.

 

[Desiderius]

Outflank is only triggered by the guy you're flanking with, Seize is anybody including Range.

 

[Desiderius]

Is seize the moment working properly at the moment? I'm considering to give it to my all front liners but I have it on 2 guys it seems it doesnt work, they only make attack of opportunity once.

If you want to use it get one of the teamwork sharing classes. It's not worth burning two feats and not everybody wants Combat Reflexes.

 

[Desiderius]

Barb10/Booter10 Cleaver/Pouncer is very solid.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Seems like it could have decent action economy on surprise turns by doing one of its move actions and then charging the next turn, too.

I have Amiri as a Freebooter 10/Barb x but I might swap things, especially since I’m getting close to 14.

 

[Üstad]

Question, do Outflank and Seize the Moment stack? A blender of Outflank, Seize, and Opportunist would be fun.

Is seize the moment working properly at the moment? I'm considering to give it to my all front liners but I have it on 2 guys it seems it doesnt work, they only make attack of opportunity once.

Outflank and Seize the Moment simply don't "stack", meaning that you don't get 2 attacks of opportunity if you have both of them.

This is how it works in Kingmaker, and the general consensus is that it's working as intended.

So what is the reason I should take seize the moment alongside with combat reflexes, if I wont make more than 1 AoO?

 

[Haplo]

Different/easier trigger conditions. More important if you play with proper flanking rules.

 

[NJClaw]

So what is the reason I should take seize the moment alongside with combat reflexes, if I wont make more than 1 AoO?

There are fringe cases where you might benefit from Seize the Moment, but I don't think it's worth to waste an entire feat on them.

Outflank only gives an AoO when two characters are flanking an enemy and one of them scores a critical hit. Seize the Moment doesn't care about flanking: if a ranged Ranger with a bow scores a critical hit against an enemy, with Seize the Moment a character that threatens that same enemy gets an AoO (provided that he also has that teamwork feat).

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

What do you have your bards do besides songs? Melee or ranged feats? Right now, I have her as an melee outflank character with spell focus enchant and she's pretty decent in low will situations but in many other cases I feel like I could be getting a little more. She is basically a tar pit but I would like to see if I could a little more out of her actions. Ideas are maybe to build her ranged, or focus on a combat maneuver, or switch her to freebooter at 11 (which would kind of be thematic, too).

Edit: Playing along the combat maneuver theme, something like Thug 4 for debilitating injury and brutal attack might be interesting. I think if her damage still wasn't great but she applied debuffs with her attacks that might be an optimization.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

This is probably really bad, but what about some sort of bard / scaled fist pummeling style freak.

 

[bec de corbin]

Ooo, pack tactics and outflank stack, giving you a total of 6 AB for flanking with your pet. I think the big question would be if we could both charge the same thing and chunk them. Maybe if the Barb has both enlarge and a reach weapon?

Actually, with some empirical testing, it doesn't look like it stacks so either they patched that or the people saying it stacked were not checking the logs.

The pet trip ability for Mad Doge is kind of silly for anything but one of the pets that has an intrinsic trip, since otherwise you have to forfeit your full attacks and do the trip as a standard action.

Semi-related, bites from barbarian and tiefling stack (lol). The trip from the winter cloak basically never will succeed without the supporting feats, so it ends up being about an extra ~15 damage a pop at a -5 AB.

You could always grab tandem trip too if you're going to splash huntsmaster.

 

[oldmanpaco]

This is probably really bad, but what about some sort of bard / scaled fist pummeling style freak.

You're overthinking it. Bard 20 ranged cc/buff/skill bot.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Ok, so what about something like:
Scaled Fist 1?
Archaeologist X
Dragon Disciple 4

If you go pummeling style, you get a trip from that and then a trip from the dragon bite and wolf cloak. You get uncanny dodge and advanced rogue feats from the archaeologist. Your damage is going to be super bad but if you can hit things you will get a couple trip attempts.

If you go SF 1, DD 4, you get all of the luck bonuses except the final one archaeologist would get at level 17. If you skip the DD you would get that, too. If you go DD you are -2 caster levels, if not you are -1.

One possibility is to go deeper into scaled fist for another trip but that requires going to 5. I guess you can go to 6 to get improved trip "for free." I don't know if this is worth all the lost caster levels and slower bard song progression. Probably want to skip DD although you could technically fit the +3 and all this crap at level 20 [/InEffect]. Perhaps if you do this you get leg sweep though and don't even try unarmed.

Might not be worth all the trouble and just getting bites -> trips from some other means.