Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Desiderius]

I answered the question.

Lazy people who fall for memes phrase things that way. Not how this game works.

You already know the pros and cons, you can read as well as anyone. What makes you think Motherless is best? You might be right.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I answered the question.

:authoritative:

 

[Desiderius]

You’re already down a skill on Human then the -2 INT really rubs it in. Not good for a MC.

 

[Testownia]

You’re already down a skill on Human then the -2 INT really rubs it in. Not good for a MC.

Thanks, Lilura.

 

[Desiderius]

Don’t mention it. You already have enough attacks. You have a pet. What’s the plan for connecting/doing damage with the ones you have?

Extra attacks are best for classes that are good at that.

 

[Desiderius]

I will concede somewhat. Empower is a good secondary choice to Heighten. I would end it there though. While I normally love Extend Spell, metamagic rods for that are everywhere. Maximize and Quicken are traps in any game. There are some cool things that can be done by layering metamagics, but after a certain point, it's better to just using a higher level spell. I can't say I needed to eek out any kind of strategy that required layering metamagics. The particular problem with layer metamagics, is that most foes which would merrit such contrived tactics will either be immune or have saves high enough to make the DC spread risky. Casters also suffer for lack of feats, and the ability to lean on rods in order to use those feats on other things is an opportunity I take advantage of.

That's the way I've always played casters with a lot of situational spells and buffs supplemented by decent action economy if I'm not.

But what if you want to cast a Fireball every turn on the game? By level eleven you can have 6 regulars, 5 Reach, 4 Empowered, and 3 Maximized or whatever to use for different fights that require different approaches, supplemented by rods to mix and max. Totally different way to play but can't say it isn't effective.

 

[Testownia]

Don’t mention it. You already have enough attacks. You have a pet. What’s the plan for connecting/doing damage with the ones you have?

Extra attacks are best for classes that are good at that.

No, I was just curious. My specialisation is squeezing every drop of value out of Mystic Theurge builds. Thanks to Holic implementing the Theurgy feat you can go MT as early as Thassilonian Specialist 3/Feyspeaker 1.

 

[Desiderius]

Reg Scion/Feyspeaker/MT is the hotness. There's only one small problem, but it is surmountable. This was also fun:

 

[Testownia]

Reg Scion/Feyspeaker/MT is the hotness. There's only one small problem, but it is surmountable. This was also fun:

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I'd rather go Thassilonian Specialist/Feyspeaker/Mystic Theurge, since then you get to Level 8 spells in both arcane and divine, and also get 3 spell slots in both - so we're not talking about barely scraping by. Also, thanks to the Animal Ally feat, you can also have a fully levelled Leopard companion.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Has anyone tried to efficiently build Shaman? Maybe it's just me, but shaman is MADdest of all MADs, to have versatile spell selection with arcane enlightenment AND use hexes efficiently - he has to have high INT, WIS, CHAR! And bonuses from gear does not count, only raw increase (and from one of lore spirit hexes) Now I started to think is it worth a hassle or not, considering that Arcane enlightenment is permanent ability and spells can be selected only once. At least that how I understood differences from pnp. I just trying to come up with replacement to my witch, since the only way she contributed was spamming hexes and her spell list lacks some useful buffs so I thought: "Maybe there better alternative?"

Several hours later I starting to have doubts.

 

[Desiderius]

The Weapon enhancement on the Shaman in Wrath makes things a lot easier. I feel like the Arcane Enlightenment is just a bridge too far on Shaman. I liked it better with Oracle where your spell selection was much more limited.

Spamming Hexes on Witch is pretty good action economy since she gets Major and Grand Hexes and they all bypass SR and help lower Saves for everyone's spells etc... But on Shaman you've got Medium armor proficiency and full Barkskin so maybe you're more buff and bash with passive Hexes as additional buffs. Fast Spell Progression means getting to Legendary and Frightful and really wrecking house.

 

[Desiderius]

I'd rather go Thassilonian Specialist/Feyspeaker/Mystic Theurge, since then you get to Level 8 spells in both arcane and divine, and also get 3 spell slots in both - so we're not talking about barely scraping by. Also, thanks to the Animal Ally feat, you can also have a fully levelled Leopard companion.

That's two different caster stats. Animal Ally isn't in unmodded and takes at least two extra feats to get fully leveled.

 

[Testownia]

I'd rather go Thassilonian Specialist/Feyspeaker/Mystic Theurge, since then you get to Level 8 spells in both arcane and divine, and also get 3 spell slots in both - so we're not talking about barely scraping by. Also, thanks to the Animal Ally feat, you can have a fully levelled Leopard companion.

That's two different caster stats. Animal Ally isn't unmodded and takes at least two extra feats to get fully levelled.

I see no reason to play unmodded. I'm not even sure anyone still does who's really into the game. As to the feats, other than the ones related to summoning/conjuration, this build doesn't "require" any other as a "must-have".

 

[Alrik]

How crucial are DD/Shatter Defences? At Sword Saint5 now and Cleave+Cleaving Finish looks a lot more tempting than something like DD+Cleave/Blind Fight. Since DD is a standard action you'll lose first round momentum so even with SD it doesn't seem like an action that should be performed by the SS and I won't be able to get SD on him until lv9 due to BAB progression.

Also, to add fuel to the Monk dip on SS fire: If you dip at lv5 you get Outflank two levels earlier since pure SS can't take it until lv7 because Kingmaker Monk is full BAB for some reason (3/4 in PnP). I think you'll also be +1 BAB after the dip due to this, so you get extra attacks a level earlier. Dipping before 4 would've been crippling on this playthrough though, would not have been able to do Boggard cave without Perfect Strike/Perfect Critical/Mirror Image.

I'm personally not dipping because I hate the concept of dips, Monk as a class, playing Lawful characters and playing defensively. But if you're hellbent on it I'd say lv5 would be where to do it, though you push the elemental/keen Arcane Weapon enhancements one level down the road (as well as everything after it).

Oh and for those who like exploits; you can use Perfect Strike without spending arcane points in TB mode. If it is active at the start of your round and you unselect it before your attack it will still be active but not consume a point. You can then activate it before you end your turn (free action) and repeat the process the next round. Perfect Critical might be the same but I haven't seen it happen. This is not in the BG2 6xSunfire realm of brokenness, but it is definitely pretty far up the scale.

So currently at:

SS1 Focus: Bastard Sword, Arcane Strike
SS2
SS3 Power Attack
SS4
SS5 Cleave, Cleaving Finish

After Outflank at 7 I might pick up DD, SD and Blind Fight at 9 and 11 unless I see something more intriguing. From what I've read Blind Fight can be put off for a while.

 

[NJClaw]

How crucial are DD/Shatter Defences? At Sword Saint5 now and Cleave+Cleaving Finish looks a lot more tempting than something like DD+Cleave/Blind Fight. Since DD is a standard action you'll lose first round momentum so even with SD it doesn't seem like an action that should be performed by the SS and I won't be able to get SD on him until lv9 due to BAB progression.

Shatter Defenses is not mandatory to finish the game, but it makes hitting things so much easier that with it you're basically lowering the difficulty by one step. You're not supposed to use Dazzling Display with a character that should spend his time dishing out damage. Your best option is to rely on a Bard's Dirge of Doom, but a fire Kineticist with Dreadful Carnage works too. Otherwise, I usually use a backline caster as a Dazzling Display machine, since they won't be casting spells every single round and a cantrip/crossbow shot isn't going to win the encounter.

Kingmaker Monk is full BAB for some reason (3/4 in PnP).

Kingmaker uses the Unchained Monk as its standard Monk, while the Traditional Monk archetype is the original one.

 

[Alrik]

How crucial are DD/Shatter Defences? At Sword Saint5 now and Cleave+Cleaving Finish looks a lot more tempting than something like DD+Cleave/Blind Fight. Since DD is a standard action you'll lose first round momentum so even with SD it doesn't seem like an action that should be performed by the SS and I won't be able to get SD on him until lv9 due to BAB progression.

Shatter Defenses is not mandatory to finish the game, but it makes hitting things so much easier that with it you're basically lowering the difficulty by one step. You're not supposed to use Dazzling Display with a character that should spend his time dishing out damage. Your best option is to rely on a Bard's Dirge of Doom, but a fire Kineticist with Dreadful Carnage works too. Otherwise, I usually use a backline caster as a Dazzling Display machine, since they won't be casting spells every single round and a cantrip/crossbow shot isn't going to win the encounter.

Yeah I figured, though is it worth the 2x feat investment (Focus+DD) for a caster? Sounds like non-DD induction of fear-related status is superior. Still feels like taking a useless feat at lv5 to get a powerful one at lv9 is counterintuitive compared to having useful feats (esp for a 3/4 class) but getting SD two levels later. Lv11 where you get 2 feats at the same level sounds like a good place to pick them both up in one fell swoop.

 

[Desiderius]

The whole point of Magi is getting an extra attack a round with Spellstrike. If you're Cleaving you're not full attacking. Haplo goes two-handed late for Vital Strikes but seems like it violates the spirit of the class to not use Spellstrike at all.

Saints aren't casters. In general, if you've got interatives to land and you already have Weapon Focus then Shatter is a no brainer. Just getting things Shaken is underrated itself since it's -2 Saves and attacks.

Arcane Strike is garbage, and especially for Saints who have other things to do with their Swift actions. You need to think another order of magnitude damage-wise if this looks good to you. Looks like there's five or six good Feats you're overlooking. This isn't a game where one or two Feats are good and the rest aren't worth looking at.

 

[Apostle Hand]

So far I've been playing Mad dog3/thug2

I like to have in my party valerie, linzi, amiri, regongar and octavia

but now I reached lvl 6.

19
14
16
8
10
12

race tiefling motherless heritage

weapon focus glaive

dazzling display

skill bonus stealth

chapter 2 start bought ring of beast lord

what would you recommend me pick for level 6? (so far didn't bought mercenaries)(also didn't use character retrain)

also my leopard have decreased dexterity but it doesn't offer explanation other than 'other'
What does it mean?
it has no penalty on icon bar

playing on challenging mode

here are some screenshots :

 

[Yosharian]

Animal companions lose DEX and gain STR as they become larger. Think of it as they are becoming 'adult' animals. They become less nimble but stronger.

 

[Yosharian]

There's a dedicated thread for build discussion, no need to start your own.

 

[Alrik]

The whole point of Magi is getting an extra attack a round with Spellstrike. If you're Cleaving you're not full attacking. Haplo goes two-handed late for Vital Strikes but seems like it violates the spirit of the class to not use Spellstrike at all.

Saints aren't casters. In general, if you've got interatives to land and you already have Weapon Focus then Shatter is a no brainer. Just getting things Shaken is underrated itself since it's -2 Saves and attacks.

Arcane Strike is garbage, and especially for Saints who have other things to do with their Swift actions. You need to think another order of magnitude damage-wise if this looks good to you. Looks like there's five or six good Feats you're overlooking. This isn't a game where one or two Feats are good and the rest aren't worth looking at.

Not casting anything but MI, Shield, Shocking Grasp and endless amounts of ToF.

I prioritized Cleaving Finish since it triggers regardless of which attack you make as long as you kill, a SS needs any type of extra attacks they can get with their shitty BAB. Regular Cleave still has use whenever you have to move and attack (and can't charge) on a turn (until I get my 2nd attack on lv8). On the whole I'd say that at most 50-60% of my attacks are full playing on TB since enemies are likely more spread out than on RtwP and you need to move+attack often (CC contributes to this as well), though post-attack 5ft steps can sometimes bring you in range for the next attack. Often the three rounds are; charge (or cleave if the opportunity presents itself, 2x attacks is better than a charge at this point), full attack (with Spell Combat for the extra), move+attack, combat over.

In retrospect Arcane Strike may have been a malinvestment, probably should've picked Power Attack there already and had better feat progression. Might spend some money on a respec at lv9 (could get SD then switching out AS for DD), since most of the interesting feats I'd rather have won't be available to me now anyway.

Will Imp. Critical be worth it down the line or am I being retarded? It doesn't stack with Arcane Weapon - Keen, but it does free up that slot for for other effects (the in-game text promises speed at some point, which is supposed to be +1 APR).

 

[Desiderius]

You don’t have shitty BAB with Shatter, that’s the whole point. Frigid Touch is a really good spell against foes with a lot of attacks. There’s no save.

Cleave isn’t that good without Reach. Are you saying Finish is trigger even when you don’t Cleave? I guess first turn you move + Cleave, then next turn you full attack but I prefer just using Charge.

Other great Feats are Improved Initiative, Shake it Off, and a Metamagic to give you something good to cast in level five.

 

[Alrik]

You don’t have shitty BAB with Shatter, that’s the whole point. Frigid Touch is a really good spell against foes with a lot of attacks. There’s no save.

Cleave isn’t that good without Reach. Are you saying Finish is trigger even when you don’t Cleave? I guess first turn you move + Cleave, then next turn you full attack but I prefer just using Charge.

Other great Feats are Improved Initiative, Shake it Off, and a Metamagic to give you something good to cast in level five.

Yes, Finishing Cleave always activates. I'd post a screenshot but I don't have enough KKK's to upload images to a post.

I had completely disregarded metamagic since Intensify isn't in without mods and I don't consider the SS a caster at all, but that's an interesting proposition if lv5 is useless. I picked Shake it Off on Jaethal since she didn't qualify for Outflank on her first TW feat, so that's a good option since it's already in the party. II has been great on Linzi for early CC but I felt it might be overkill on a SS that already gets INT-to-initiative on lv7.

Re BAB I'm talking about progression, you lack total attacks per round - not actual attack bonus, so anything that gives extra attacks is good. My actual AB is higher than full BAB Amiri and can easily become stratospheric with Arcane Accuracy.

 

[Desiderius]

By not a caster I mean not having to beat saves not casting in combat. You’ve still got a wide selection of buffs, and you can be your party’s Haster (Speed doesn’t stack with Haste).

There’s a couple Weapon Enhancements you want to buy with Arcana (like Bane) but I usually just get Keen with Enhancement (take Enduring at six) and skip Improved Crit.

 

[Desiderius]

Spellstrike gives you an extra already at level two. Don’t get me wrong, big fan of AoOs since they get full AB, but SS gets enough attacks that stuff is usually dead before they’d miss another.

Haplo is the master. You should be talking to him.