Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Desiderius]

Are you gentlemen familiar with OnlyFans? Popular music?

Female charisma is a whole different dynamic.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius care to elaborate ? I dont remember showing you a lack of respect lately , so i would expect likewise.

Don’t take it personally. We all say stupid shit from time to time.

 

[Mortmal]

Desiderius care to elaborate ? I dont remember showing you a lack of respect lately , so i would expect likewise.

Don’t take it personally. We all say stupid shit from time to time.

Well i dont play wotr yet, although backed it, just reading things left and right and try to theory crafting things . So what is so wrong in the build i mentioned ?

 

[Desiderius]

The fun is in finding out!

 

[Mortmal]

The fun is in finding out!

the fun is in sperging and theory crafting, then only instagibbing things in game.

 

[Mortmal]

Desiderius come on, you know you want to , tell us about those absurdly broken builds.

 

[Desiderius]

Game's not about builds, it's about putting together the right team for the job and attacking weaknesses instead of strengths.

Here's some fooling around with an Unfair Wurm:

Spoiler

Eats Regill's Hellhound for an appetizer and swallows Regill whole

Regill's not going anywhere

Seelah not sure what to do against a foe who isn't evil and isn't easily intimidated. Not doing much damage even when she hits since DR bypass is designed for DR/Good.

Lann can use his little True Strike thingie but also not doing much (he shld be in melee to turn on his flanking and AoOs tho)

I have Spell Specialization Hellfire Ray to get the third ray and... figured out that I'd forgotten to learn the spell (usually using Angel spells vs all the Evil shit). Umbral is fine but I have no Focus in Necromancy and Fortitude is it's strong save.

Why isn't this thing just destroying my team? Oh yeah supertank Kitsune Bard

Found the chink finally. Playing kind of half-assed here but even on top of my game wasn't really easily ganking this thing. Was always about getting the DC up to a decent level and hitting the weak save.

And here we go - first of many casts. Angel exclusive suckaz!

 

[LannTheStupid]

Valerie is dumber than Nok-Nok. What do you expect from her?

 

[Desiderius]

Builds above: Pal14, ZA14, Cleric14, Oracle14, Bard14

Seelah has the Mounted Combat Feats and Mobility in high 30s so would be interesting to go all out on her tankiness with Mount. So much obvious goodness for Pal in this setting.

Lann will get to the point where he can hit almost anything. Not there yet obviously but missing half my buffs above too. Right now he teleports next to casters and lights them up with Snap Shot AoOs to interrupt casts. Just picked up Ki Shout so that will be interesting variant. Probably going Inq for Wis to Init now? ZA high end very meh.

Sos is whacking shit with his Glaive and buffing in and out of combat.

Bard uses a lot of Fascinate just picked up Fear. Dirge Bard gets intimidation bonus so has Mythic Dazzling. High DCs vs Will, can also bash/bite/tank. Gets pounce next level.

MC has too many spells can just cast whatever. High caster level means even stupider Cleric buffs. Angel buffs are even better/gamebreaking but also much needed convenience. Throws Axe which would be good if procs were working.

 

[Desiderius]

I don't know if pets hold their power late game but early they are totally beasts on their own.

They do but require some buffing in P:K. They get some equipment and Feats in Wrath.

 

[Mortmal]

Builds above: Pal14, ZA14, Cleric14, Oracle14, Bard14

Seelah has the Mounted Combat Feats and Mobility in high 30s so would be interesting to go all out on her tankiness with Mount. So much obvious goodness for Pal in this setting.

Lann will get to the point where he can hit almost anything. Not there yet obviously but missing half my buffs above too. Right now he teleports next to casters and lights them up with Snap Shot AoOs to interrupt casts. Just picked up Ki Shout so that will be interesting variant. Probably going Inq for Wis to Init now? ZA high end very meh.

Sos is whacking shit with his Glaive and buffing in and out of combat.

Bard uses a lot of Fascinate just picked up Fear. Dirge Bard gets intimidation bonus so has Mythic Dazzling. High DCs vs Will, can also bash/bite/tank. Gets pounce next level.

MC has too many spells can just cast whatever. High caster level means even stupider Cleric buffs. Angel buffs are even better/gamebreaking but also much needed convenience. Throws Axe which would be good if procs were working.

Not multiclassing ? that seems a bit tame, having pathfinder , all those options and not using them... Well might as well use 5E.

 

[Desiderius]

Tame lol.

You have no idea.

 

[LannTheStupid]

As I understand Mr. Desiderius motto, he does not believe that Pathfinder system is made for multiclassing. And it seems that the designers of this system agree with him (or vice versa).

 

[Mortmal]

Full class indeed works, but min maxing you multiclass. It's ok to have a more laid back casual approach of rpgs, but i expected more in depth builds knowledge here.

 

[Desiderius]

There are narrow cases where multiclassing (or prestigeclassing) adds value. But not many.

It’s so cute when they try to mog you with the obsolete P:K release day meme takes.

You shall see, young Jedi.

 

[Xamenos]

After playing kingmaker i remember lot of stuff not landing in end game,spells , abilities and even my slayer study enemy wasnt working, so does such strategy even work ? May very well end up with enemies immune too.

Full class indeed works, but min maxing you multiclass. It's ok to have a more laid back casual approach of rpgs, but i expected more in depth builds knowledge here.

The above quotes are very much related. I'm genuinely not sure if you're trolling or if you just don't know what you're talking about, but you should really consider listening to Desiderius instead of digging your heels in. He does know what he's talking about.

 

[Mortmal]

After playing kingmaker i remember lot of stuff not landing in end game,spells , abilities and even my slayer study enemy wasnt working, so does such strategy even work ? May very well end up with enemies immune too.

Full class indeed works, but min maxing you multiclass. It's ok to have a more laid back casual approach of rpgs, but i expected more in depth builds knowledge here.

The above quotes are very much related. I'm genuinely not sure if you're trolling or if you just don't know what you're talking about, but you should really consider listening to Desiderius instead of digging your heels in. He does know what he's talking about.

He does certainly know about pathfinder, but seriously i am afraid not so much . I agree the group compostion matters most, however if you can min max each of the components its even better.
I kindly asked about the lich build, just throwing a theory , and received no serious answers , just discarded like that and made fun at, no discussion ,nothing . Yet i am pretty sure you dont have to striclty play a high level caster only with save or die spell . The build focusing on multihitting spells, may work , magic missile get countered by shield but theres other spells, the amount of spell could turn it into some sort of stat decay machine gun.
But no, no one explaining why its a bad idea, i am in all honesty , without trolling, disapointed by you guys.

 

[Xamenos]

He does certainly know about pathfinder, but seriously i am afraid not so much . I agree the group compostion matters most, however if you can min max each of the components its even better.
I kindly asked about the lich build, just throwing a theory , and received no serious answers , just discarded like that and made fun at, no discussion ,nothing . Yet i am pretty sure you dont have to striclty play a high level caster only with save or die spell . The build focusing on multihitting spells, may work , magic missile get countered by shield but theres other spells, the amount of spell could turn it into some sort of stat decay machine gun.
But no, no one explaining why its a bad idea, i am in all honesty , without trolling, disapointed by you guys.

You asked for advice. You got some advice: Do not multiclass. This is not what the system encourages. It is more min than maxing unless you know exactly what you're doing, and you have no idea what you're doing.

You did not like that advice. You did not consider the possibility that you might, in fact, be wrong, and that the reason you saw "lot of stuff not landing in end game", was BECAUSE you multiclassed. You could have used that as an opportunity to reexamine your assumptions, learn and maybe grow better. But you preferred to dig your heels in and start behaving like a hurt little bitch with your passive aggressiveness.

At this point, it's pretty clear you don't really want to learn what your betters would like to teach you. You're not interested in advice that works. You're only interested in advice that fits your retarded preconceptions. And as long as this remains the case, no one can help with your problem of "lot of stuff not landing in end game".

 

[Mortmal]

He does certainly know about pathfinder, but seriously i am afraid not so much . I agree the group compostion matters most, however if you can min max each of the components its even better.
I kindly asked about the lich build, just throwing a theory , and received no serious answers , just discarded like that and made fun at, no discussion ,nothing . Yet i am pretty sure you dont have to striclty play a high level caster only with save or die spell . The build focusing on multihitting spells, may work , magic missile get countered by shield but theres other spells, the amount of spell could turn it into some sort of stat decay machine gun.
But no, no one explaining why its a bad idea, i am in all honesty , without trolling, disapointed by you guys.

You asked for advice. You got some advice: Do not multiclass. This is not what the system encourages. It is more min than maxing unless you know exactly what you're doing, and you have no idea what you're doing.

You did not like that advice. You did not consider the possibility that you might, in fact, be wrong, and that the reason you saw "lot of stuff not landing in end game", was BECAUSE you multiclassed. You could have used that as an opportunity to reexamine your assumptions, learn and maybe grow better. But you preferred to dig your heels in and start behaving like a hurt little bitch with your passive aggressiveness.

At this point, it's pretty clear you don't really want to learn what your betters would like to teach you. You're not interested in advice that works. You're only interested in advice that fits your retarded preconceptions. And as long as this remains the case, no one can help with your problem of "lot of stuff not landing in end game".

There's no a single thing informative nor helpful in your post. No knowledge of anything, no explanation about the weakness of my theory build , just some rage and ill placed arrogance . No the reason the study enemy wasnt landing was not due to multiclassing, when cast on the wriggling man, i was surprised to read on the log the swift action study enemy wasnt working there,immune, just like that no reason given, the slayer had true seeing , buffed etc .So i am wondering if bosses in wotr could not just be immune to stat damage just like that as well, they are likely immune to level drain and similar.
But anyway what's the point to even post here, you dont want to explain things or you more likely dont know shit.

 

[Desiderius]

I’ve never seen Studied Target (Swift) not work, sounds like a bug for that specific mob. Then again d20 says you have to see the target and you sound like you might just be retarded enough to neglect Perception on your Slayer so maybe that’s causing it. Maybe you’ve been relying on your Sneaks to trigger it and Wriggling Man is immune to Precision Damage? That’s a rare enough immunity in P:K that it could also be turning off Study.

I can’t give you Lich advice because RPing Evil is ghey and Liches are Evil.

You keep whining about no specific advice but keeping talking in generalities yourself. You bragged about those characters being tame but made no argument for what splashes or dips would improve them.

 

[Mortmal]

I’ve never seen Studied Target (Swift) not work, sounds like a bug for that specific mob. Then again d20 says you have to see the target and you sound like you might just be retarded enough to neglect Perception on your Slayer so maybe that’s causing it. Maybe you’ve been relying on your Sneaks to trigger it and Wriggling Man is immune to Precision Damage? That’s a rare enough immunity in P:K that it could also be turning off Study.

I can’t give you Lich advice because RPing Evil is ghey and Liches are Evil.

You keep whining about no specific advice but keeping talking in generalities yourself. You bragged about those characters being tame but made no argument for what splashes or dips would improve them.

No need to be an arrogant cunt, perception is maxed, whatever it was it was clearly written immune .
You could simply said from the beggining you dont know shit about the lich...

 

[Delterius]

I read you can make a mystic theurge combo with a rank 3 ability of the lich giving stat damage by hit.

Negative stats with magic missile is an old meme. It is icing on the cake, not really powerful and its not really a special combo for mystic theurge. That said if all you want is casting power then you don't want to mystic theurge at all. At least not with lich. Lich gets to spellbook merge with arcane casters, which means you get higher CL and faster spell progression. IE Wizard 9 Lich 3 casts as a Wizard 12. It is arguably broken in a bad way but I don't think anyone but really anal people even give a fuck at this point. A mystic theurge build even with spellbook merging is going to net you a CL 18, CL 22 caster. By just not merging you'll be CL 20 / CL 20, and by merging you can be CL 30. It's just not worth it unless you're doing a fun build of 'oh look, I am feyspeaker/thassilonian conjurer/mystic theurge/angel and can cast every spell ever'.

 

[Desiderius]

So lets look at some specific cases:

Spoiler

Here's what my single class MC just picked up at level 14. Pls do enlighten me on all the awesome benefits your splashes and dips would provide that Ninth Level spells don't.

Min/max lol. BTW, Wrath is probably the fourth most broken spell on that page.

I think I'll live without the Vivi splash or whatever. Let's look at the other characters:

HK9 is where HK finally starts getting a payoff. His one hour summon even turns into a Hell Hound. 5 + 9 = you guessed it, 14.

All of Sosiel's awesome, unique Domain abilities scale on "level in the class that gave you access to this domain." Whenever you see that it means "don't splash." Of course as a caster he already wants to stay single class to get to his spells and beat SR. Next level he finally gets Frightful Aspect and will completely own.

Since he starts with Selective Channel you're also kind of priced in to single-classing to make that viable as well.

Left out the part where his Arrows get bigger as you level in this class like a Monk's fist, but you can see it in that 2d6. Single Class Ember just learned Legendary Proportions, Bows have a x3 Crit multiplier, etc

Now I will almost certainly multi-class Lann soon because the scaling benefits here are modest and since the Ki abilities don't bypass SR like Bombs and Arcanist Rays do they're of limited utility.

ZA really lays the wood when played well but I'll probably end up making him a Hunter or Druid most of the time since I hate Camellia. Depends if I'm planning to use Aru or not.

Bard was the class that first got me thinking about the single vs multiclass issue after InEffective gave an abomination of a Bard build to a little kid that I knew couldn't be right.

If you can read I think it's clear why you'd have no interest in splashes here. Especially with Slow Spell progression:

Very nice spellbook, but only way I got even to here is to stick with Bard. I'll be using the Mythic ability that lets you copy all abilities from one school to another to copy all the Enchantment boosts to Evocation.

Now I am building Nenio as SS10/Arcane Enforcer1/EK9 because the second half of SS is so underwhelming and she comes with a bite and can get Pounce at lvl 15 that way, Transformation, etc... Arcane Enforcer is a Slayer Archetype that gets an Arcanist Exploit at level 1 so you can take the Move Action Teleportation with is awesome with Nenio.

 

[Desiderius]

No need to be an arrogant cunt

Indeed there wasn't.

Don't start swinging your dick around if you can't handle the sight of a bigger one, my man.

It's even worse when you're swinging someone else's dick around and haven't bothered to test their assumptions.

 

[Desiderius]

Here's a decent Unfair fight where I was trying a little harder:

Spoiler

Modest AC but you don't see 64 WIS everyday. With Magic Weapon, Greater stacking unfortunately the double DR/Adamantine doesn't do much. At least they've now capped it at +5 total.

Notice all the prebuffs. This is progress.

Greater Angelic should have given +4 Resist but whatever. 50 DC naice, naice. Angel buffs are absurd (Immune to Disease and Ability Drain Communal is lvl 7 so you get it right after becoming Angel). Since the spells are the main threat here just a matter of ganking this guy before he gets down to attacking.

64 WIS = whatever you were planning to do with Intimidate isn't happening.

Likewise Dispels need help if they're going to do anything in general. Think I'll try to take Spell Focus Abjuration at some point for Dismissal then take Spell Specialization to boost Dispel maybe. The Feats that trigger on successful Dispels also makes this look like a fruitful avenue to explore.

MC Angel had a little better luck.

Whatever that mystery Dispel was it shaved 8 AC off which made all the difference. That (Holy) damage MC is doing after Seelah hits is from 7th level Angel buff Sun-Marked. It's min/lvl. Busted. Avenger's Blessing is rnd/lvl.

Evidently also Dispelled Mark of Justice, which shouldn't happen.

Mark of Justice going from winmore to very much needed for Unfair makes me think I'll either keep Seelah a Pal or play MC Pal (maybe with Martyr) and let Seelah go Dirge Bard.

Regill clearing out the chaff. That extra packet of (Holy) damage from the Insane Half-Elf at bottom is from Regill's Leading Strike which will only get better and better. He doesn't even have Improved Two-Weapon yet. Should be playing Ember because she's good but Regill too much fun.

Seelah's Mount doing OK here. Looks like a Smilodon but only has two attax with no iteratives. Don't even have access to Animal Growth in this party so definitely underutilized.

Didn't plan to do much attacking so not fully buffed. Kit Bard does get bite + Pounce at 15 so can be built for attacking, but this one more for casting.

Sosiel on the other hand is already doing good work attacking and will only get better. Sorcerous Reflex lets him fire off a Prayer or Divine Power as a Swift action then smash.

Untyped AC always better than it looks.