Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Ramnozack]

What stat is better for Magus, strength or dex? I'm having trouble deciding which to choose for my build. I want to use a longsword even though I know it is not optimal because of the 19-20 crit range (is it really that big of a difference compared to a 18-20 weapon such as the scimitar?) but I'm worried about feat starvation with the dex build where as the str build looks more flexible.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

What stat is better for Magus, strength or dex? I'm having trouble deciding which to choose for my build. I want to use a longsword even though I know it is not optimal because of the 19-20 crit range (is it really that big of a difference compared to a 18-20 weapon such as the scimitar?) but I'm worried about feat starvation with the dex build where as the str build looks more flexible.

You can’t do a good DEX build with a longsword because it doesn’t work with weapon finesse. The reason people prefer scimitars and rapiers and estocs for Magus is that they’re finessable so you can use DEX instead of STR on your chance to hit.

 

[deuxhero]

The game doesn't have Dervish Dance, so you're stuck with Fencing Grace/Slashing Grace if you go dex, which means you need to spend 3 feats, though you don't exactly have a large list to choose from in this game. This also means you can't use a scimitar which is the ideal Magus weapon, though kukri and rapier aren't too far behind.

Even if you go dex, you'll want a non-awful strength so you can actually carry your gear. I don't think the game keeps track of misc items like water, bedrolls and backpacks that every hero carries (this comes out to 31 pounds+weight of water with suggested kit, though rope and pots make up 15 of it) or the weight of your spellbook (3 pounds) so you may be able to go as low as 10 (in PNP you'd want 12+).

 

[Lawntoilet]

What stat is better for Magus, strength or dex? I'm having trouble deciding which to choose for my build. I want to use a longsword even though I know it is not optimal because of the 19-20 crit range (is it really that big of a difference compared to a 18-20 weapon such as the scimitar?) but I'm worried about feat starvation with the dex build where as the str build looks more flexible.

You can’t do a good DEX build with a longsword because it doesn’t work with weapon finesse. The reason people prefer scimitars and rapiers and estocs for Magus is that they’re finessable so you can use DEX instead of STR on your chance to hit.

A longsword is just as finessable as a scimitar, you just need Slashing Grace.
People are using estocs, scimitar, or rapier because your spells have the same crit range as your weapon, so you get more Shocking Grasp crits with those swords.

 

[deuxhero]

Does slashing grace actually let you use weapon finesse in this game?

 

[Lawntoilet]

The game doesn't have Dervish Dance, so you're stuck with Fencing Grace/Slashing Grace if you go dex, which means you need to spend 3 feats, though you don't exactly have a large list to choose from in this game. This also means you can't use a scimitar which is the ideal Magus weapon, though kukri and rapier aren't too far behind.

Even if you go dex, you'll want a non-awful strength so you can actually carry your gear. I don't think the game keeps track of misc items like water, bedrolls and backpacks that every hero carries (this comes out to 31 pounds+weight of water with suggested kit, though rope and pots make up 15 of it) or the weight of your spellbook (3 pounds) so you may be able to go as low as 10 (in PNP you'd want 12+).

Slashing Grace works with a scimitar so you can use one.
Camping supplies + rations are a bundle of 10lb, they're usually the bulk of weight in your party stash, but your overall party strength is accounted for. 12-14 Str is nice for personal encumbrance though so you can actually wear armor and a couple weapon sets.

Does slashing grace actually let you use weapon finesse in this game?

Yes. Any 1-handed slashing weapon that you have Weapon Focus with gets +Dex to hit and to damage with Slashing Grace in the game, I'm playing a Dex Scimitar Magus currently.

 

[Serus]

In main thread people saying you finish game on lvl 15-16, so don't go overboard with late bloomers.

Also i need help. I want pure support arcane caster - buffs, summons, bit of cc. What is the best choice for this job?

Sylvan sorcerer, comes with a pet. Or rather should I say, take a pet that comes with a pure support arcane caster attached, a sylvan sorcerer.
Seriously though, not sure myself but that's who I plan to take when I will play with a fully customized party.

 

[Ramnozack]

What stat is better for Magus, strength or dex? I'm having trouble deciding which to choose for my build. I want to use a longsword even though I know it is not optimal because of the 19-20 crit range (is it really that big of a difference compared to a 18-20 weapon such as the scimitar?) but I'm worried about feat starvation with the dex build where as the str build looks more flexible.

You can’t do a good DEX build with a longsword because it doesn’t work with weapon finesse. The reason people prefer scimitars and rapiers and estocs for Magus is that they’re finessable so you can use DEX instead of STR on your chance to hit.

A longsword is just as finessable as a scimitar, you just need Slashing Grace.
People are using estocs, scimitar, or rapier because your spells have the same crit range as your weapon, so you get more Shocking Grasp crits with those swords.

So what happens if you use a weapon with a different crit range than your spells, like a longsword? Does it reduce the chance for your touch spells to crit to 19-20 or does the spell still have a 18-20 crit chance and you just crit less with the actual weapon strike?

Also, what are you opinions on the magus strength build? I would assume the damage would be somewhat stronger since you could use power attack and 2h your weapon for the 1.5x bonus.

 

[Zero Credibility]

So what happens if you use a weapon with a different crit range than your spells, like a longsword? Does it reduce the chance for your touch spells to crit to 19-20 or does the spell still have a 18-20 crit chance and you just crit less with the actual weapon strike?

Also, what are you opinions on the magus strength build? I would assume the damage would be somewhat stronger since you could use power attack and 2h your weapon for the 1.5x bonus.

Spellstrike uses weapon crit range, yes. Which is a good thing since normal touch spells only crit on 20 anyway. Strength build magus can work, but you start with light armor only till you hit level 7. And you can't use 2h weapons or two hand a 1h weapon if you wish to use spellcombat.

 

[Lawntoilet]

What stat is better for Magus, strength or dex? I'm having trouble deciding which to choose for my build. I want to use a longsword even though I know it is not optimal because of the 19-20 crit range (is it really that big of a difference compared to a 18-20 weapon such as the scimitar?) but I'm worried about feat starvation with the dex build where as the str build looks more flexible.

You can’t do a good DEX build with a longsword because it doesn’t work with weapon finesse. The reason people prefer scimitars and rapiers and estocs for Magus is that they’re finessable so you can use DEX instead of STR on your chance to hit.

A longsword is just as finessable as a scimitar, you just need Slashing Grace.
People are using estocs, scimitar, or rapier because your spells have the same crit range as your weapon, so you get more Shocking Grasp crits with those swords.

So what happens if you use a weapon with a different crit range than your spells, like a longsword? Does it reduce the chance for your touch spells to crit to 19-20 or does the spell still have a 18-20 crit chance and you just crit less with the actual weapon strike?

Also, what are you opinions on the magus strength build? I would assume the damage would be somewhat stronger since you could use power attack and 2h your weapon for the 1.5x bonus.

Your spell crit range is identical to whatever weapon you're using at the time.
You can get Piranha Strike for Dex builds which operates the same as Power Attack, but doesn't qualify you for all the feats that Power Attack does.
You don't want to 2-hand, going 1handed and spamming your Touch cantrip will get you an extra attack every round with a 1-handed weapon.

I do like Str builds though, they're probably a bit better late game but weaker early on when your AC is worse. You can mitigate it once you get Blur and Mirror Image though. It also gives you more room for feats since you don't need Finesse, Weapon Focus, Slashing/Fencing Grace (if you go Rapier you can delay Fencing Grace, there are a bunch of good Agile rapiers in the early/mid game but you probably want it eventually), and you won't be as locked in to one weapon.

 

[Yosharian]

In main thread people saying you finish game on lvl 15-16, so don't go overboard with late bloomers.

Also i need help. I want pure support arcane caster - buffs, summons, bit of cc. What is the best choice for this job?

But the game is supposed to get you all the way to 20... Are you certain?

 

[Lawntoilet]

In main thread people saying you finish game on lvl 15-16, so don't go overboard with late bloomers.

Also i need help. I want pure support arcane caster - buffs, summons, bit of cc. What is the best choice for this job?

But the game is supposed to get you all the way to 20... Are you certain?

You can probably get to 20 if you solo and turn off XP sharing. Maybe if you're a real completionist, too, but the other thread has people finishing at 15-16. Could be they're leaving room for DLCs without having to go into epic levels?

 

[Ramnozack]

What stat is better for Magus, strength or dex? I'm having trouble deciding which to choose for my build. I want to use a longsword even though I know it is not optimal because of the 19-20 crit range (is it really that big of a difference compared to a 18-20 weapon such as the scimitar?) but I'm worried about feat starvation with the dex build where as the str build looks more flexible.

You can’t do a good DEX build with a longsword because it doesn’t work with weapon finesse. The reason people prefer scimitars and rapiers and estocs for Magus is that they’re finessable so you can use DEX instead of STR on your chance to hit.

A longsword is just as finessable as a scimitar, you just need Slashing Grace.
People are using estocs, scimitar, or rapier because your spells have the same crit range as your weapon, so you get more Shocking Grasp crits with those swords.

So what happens if you use a weapon with a different crit range than your spells, like a longsword? Does it reduce the chance for your touch spells to crit to 19-20 or does the spell still have a 18-20 crit chance and you just crit less with the actual weapon strike?

Also, what are you opinions on the magus strength build? I would assume the damage would be somewhat stronger since you could use power attack and 2h your weapon for the 1.5x bonus.

Your spell crit range is identical to whatever weapon you're using at the time.
You can get Piranha Strike for Dex builds which operates the same as Power Attack, but doesn't qualify you for all the feats that Power Attack does.
You don't want to 2-hand, going 1handed and spamming your Touch cantrip will get you an extra attack every round with a 1-handed weapon.

I do like Str builds though, they're probably a bit better late game but weaker early on when your AC is worse. You can mitigate it once you get Blur and Mirror Image though. It also gives you more room for feats since you don't need Finesse, Weapon Focus, Slashing/Fencing Grace (if you go Rapier you can delay Fencing Grace, there are a bunch of good Agile rapiers in the early/mid game but you probably want it eventually), and you won't be as locked in to one weapon.

Could you not cast a spell using spell combat, switch to 2 handing your weapon and then use your full attack?

 

[Reinhardt]

Are you certain?

No. Very few finished the game and i'm not one of them. But i wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Lawntoilet]

What stat is better for Magus, strength or dex? I'm having trouble deciding which to choose for my build. I want to use a longsword even though I know it is not optimal because of the 19-20 crit range (is it really that big of a difference compared to a 18-20 weapon such as the scimitar?) but I'm worried about feat starvation with the dex build where as the str build looks more flexible.

You can’t do a good DEX build with a longsword because it doesn’t work with weapon finesse. The reason people prefer scimitars and rapiers and estocs for Magus is that they’re finessable so you can use DEX instead of STR on your chance to hit.

A longsword is just as finessable as a scimitar, you just need Slashing Grace.
People are using estocs, scimitar, or rapier because your spells have the same crit range as your weapon, so you get more Shocking Grasp crits with those swords.

So what happens if you use a weapon with a different crit range than your spells, like a longsword? Does it reduce the chance for your touch spells to crit to 19-20 or does the spell still have a 18-20 crit chance and you just crit less with the actual weapon strike?

Also, what are you opinions on the magus strength build? I would assume the damage would be somewhat stronger since you could use power attack and 2h your weapon for the 1.5x bonus.

Your spell crit range is identical to whatever weapon you're using at the time.
You can get Piranha Strike for Dex builds which operates the same as Power Attack, but doesn't qualify you for all the feats that Power Attack does.
You don't want to 2-hand, going 1handed and spamming your Touch cantrip will get you an extra attack every round with a 1-handed weapon.

I do like Str builds though, they're probably a bit better late game but weaker early on when your AC is worse. You can mitigate it once you get Blur and Mirror Image though. It also gives you more room for feats since you don't need Finesse, Weapon Focus, Slashing/Fencing Grace (if you go Rapier you can delay Fencing Grace, there are a bunch of good Agile rapiers in the early/mid game but you probably want it eventually), and you won't be as locked in to one weapon.

Could you not cast a spell using spell combat, switch to 2 handing your weapon and then use your full attack?

In PnP, probably. Admittedly I haven't tried it in the game but I don't think that's how it works.

 

[Zero Credibility]

You can't really do that in PnP either. Spellcombat is supposed to work like dual wielding - you attack with your main weapon while at the same time casting a spell with your free hand. If you don't have a free hand, it just does not work, unless you are using one of the archetypes that allow it.

 

[hell bovine]

In main thread people saying you finish game on lvl 15-16, so don't go overboard with late bloomers.

Also i need help. I want pure support arcane caster - buffs, summons, bit of cc. What is the best choice for this job?

There is only one option:

I've tinkered a bit with the serpentine sorcerer, their special bloodline ability - able to cast mind-affecting spells on some monsters as if they were human - seemed to be working, so that might be interesting for a cc mage. (seemed being the keyword, who knows with all the hotfixes)

 

[deuxhero]

The game doesn't have Dervish Dance, so you're stuck with Fencing Grace/Slashing Grace if you go dex, which means you need to spend 3 feats, though you don't exactly have a large list to choose from in this game. This also means you can't use a scimitar which is the ideal Magus weapon, though kukri and rapier aren't too far behind.

Even if you go dex, you'll want a non-awful strength so you can actually carry your gear. I don't think the game keeps track of misc items like water, bedrolls and backpacks that every hero carries (this comes out to 31 pounds+weight of water with suggested kit, though rope and pots make up 15 of it) or the weight of your spellbook (3 pounds) so you may be able to go as low as 10 (in PNP you'd want 12+).

Slashing Grace works with a scimitar so you can use one.
Camping supplies + rations are a bundle of 10lb, they're usually the bulk of weight in your party stash, but your overall party strength is accounted for. 12-14 Str is nice for personal encumbrance though so you can actually wear armor and a couple weapon sets.

Having the hulking barbarian account for the bulk of the party weight isn't too bad in a cRPG. It's mostly a bad idea in pnp because being dependent upon someone else carrying your personal gear makes no sense and screws you too if they die.

Good to know that *ing grace actually works in this game unlike pnp.

 

[Lawntoilet]

So if I'm reading Arcane Weapon Enhancement correctly, it only "tops up" your +bonus to +5, and additional effects like Keen reduce the +bonus, so with a +2 weapon and +5 Arcane Enhancement it would be like:
(Weapon +2, Enhance +5) = +5 total
(Weapon +2, Enhance +5, Keen -1, Flaming -1) = +5 total

Am I right or did I misread the ability?

 

[Yosharian]

This changes everything... gah. If max level is 16, I have to redo all my builds

 

[Yosharian]

So if I'm reading Arcane Weapon Enhancement correctly, it only "tops up" your +bonus to +5, and additional effects like Keen reduce the +bonus, so with a +2 weapon and +5 Arcane Enhancement it would be like:
(Weapon +2, Enhance +5) = +5 total
(Weapon +2, Enhance +5, Keen -1, Flaming -1) = +5 total

Am I right or did I misread the ability?

That's right, the stronger your weapon is, the more points you can divert to stuff like Flaming and Keen.

 

[toro]

This changes everything... gah. If max level is 16, I have to redo all my builds

It's at least 18. The guy with max level 16 was using Cheat Engine therefore he skipped quests (I assume).

 

[Vulpes]

Spell casting is kinda weird, I'm not sure it's supposed to apply but a 1 vivisectionist/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster using Scorching Ray does sneak attack on with each ray AND the bow attack.

 

[santino27]

Can anyone tell me how sneak attacks work in this game? Is flanking the only requirement? What if you're under the effect of greater invisibility? Do all attacks get the bonus damage or just the first one? What if you're a spellcaster? Does it apply to melee and ranged touch spells? If so, how do spells like Scorching Ray work? Do you get a sneak attack bonus on each ray or just the first one that hits?

Great Invis. allows you to sneak attack as long as it lasts, provided enemies don't have something like true sight.
All attacks get the sneak attack bonus including shield bash, nice when dual wielding.
Spell casting is kinda weird, I'm not sure it's supposed to apply but a 1 vivisectionist/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster using Scorching Ray does sneak attack on with each ray AND the bow attack. Dunno if AoE spells apply sneak attacks.

The game applies sneak attack for ranged touch spells, which is why it works for scorching ray. AOE spells will not get sneak attack.

 

[Yosharian]

This changes everything... gah. If max level is 16, I have to redo all my builds

It's at least 18. The guy with max level 16 was using Cheat Engine therefore he skipped quests (I assume).

Hmm. Ok.