Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Chaotic_Heretic]

guise what about this 2hander:
1 bard for dragon disciple
3 basic fighter.
1 sword saint for fauchard
10 levels of dragon disciple
rest fighter.

built around AoA and trips.

is this shit?

 

[Haplo]

inquisitor solo tactics + outflank -> do all nearby allies get free opportunity attack or not?
does seize the moment work at all?

Apart from that: what are good options of turning jaethal into main tank? Invulnerable rager would do or s&b is the only way

I suppose that should work. But why do you want to deny your other melees the +2 Outflank Attack Bonus for attacking the same target? I'd pick it on all melees always.

And I'd not rely on Invulnerable Rager for tanking. Even moreso on a character that is difficult to heal and has measly d8 for his hitdice. That IR DR is just a little bonus that will allow him to swing a bit longer with his monstrous health pool, not absorb attacks for the whole party.

 

[Haplo]

guise what about this 2hander:
1 bard for dragon disciple
3 basic fighter.
1 sword saint for fauchard
10 levels of dragon disciple
rest fighter.

built around AoA and trips.

is this shit?

You loose 5 BAB compared to pure martial classes (and don't get further big boosts from Weapon Training/Rage/Favored Enemies). Depending on when you pick the 5 fighter levels, you may not even get Weapon Training (to benefit from the awesome fighter bracers).
Instead you get what, 4 Str (2 AB), 2 Con, 2 Int and 3 Natural Armor. Also Wings (that you can get with an Aasimar anyway) and the ability to transform and fight with natural weapons => ergo: yep, its shit.

Dragon Disciple is a 4 level class at most, if that. Not worth sacrificing another class dip to qualify though, IMO.

 

[Haplo]

If you want something more complex then a cookie-cutter Fighter/Barb/Pally build, IMO try either a magus build or a strenght based vivisectionist. You end up sacrificing less for more.

 

[Yosharian]

guise what about this 2hander:
1 bard for dragon disciple
3 basic fighter.
1 sword saint for fauchard
10 levels of dragon disciple
rest fighter.

built around AoA and trips.

is this shit?

Or just Fighter 20

if you just want to smack fools with a 2-hander you really don't need to over-complicate things, plus Fighter gets an absurd amount of feats which is perfect for a Trip build

 

[Haplo]

Some Vivi dip for a little sneak damage and a little mutagen stat&armor boost could be nice. For example 4 levels and Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat for +3d6 sneak and 2x Preserve Organs Discoveries (at Vivi levels 2 and 4) for 50% crit & sneak immunity.
Loose 1 BAB but gain +4 Str +2 Natural Armor for 40 minutes/day.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[ArchAngel]

Yes.
Check out mods for the game on nexusmods.

 

[hell bovine]

i think i need to start over. Got some questions:
I want to maintain high enchantment dc but I might consider dropping 2cha. What Im thinking about doing is some sort of more str focused build with reach weapon, cornogun smash, dazzling performance... in general be intimidating powerhouse.

I've actually turned Regongar into a melee bard and it worked surprisingly well. He did respectable damage with that sneak attack spell, could sing & buff. On the downside he was more squishy if caught without buffs, so enlarge person and a long reach weapon was mandatory.

The question is whether you'll be using enchantment offensively later on as a melee bard. Because frankly, while laughter was great early on (and hold person, but I gave Tristian a level in serpentine sorcerer, which made it work on monsters), late game conjuration had far better disabling spells. And that job is best left to wizards & sorcerers.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Haplo]

So, once more I would like to write a praise about the Freebooter Ranger.
With 6 levels you get: party wide untyped bonuses of +2 flanking bonus (1 minute, unlimited use), +2 AB vs marked target. Also 2 Combat Style feats, which ignore requirements. For example Menacing Style lets you pick Shatter Defenses at level 6, without Dazzling Display and Weapon Focus (can pick Power Attack as level 2 bonus feat). Plus 2 casts of ranger spells, for example Lead Blades to increase weapon damage.

I've made my Amiri into one and she rocks (currently Barb level 2 / Freeboter level 6).

Shatter Defenses is worthy of its own discussion. It's very easy in Kingmaker to make most enemies shaken/terrified. Dazzling Display at combat start and enemies are debuffed with -2 AB and -2 all saves, which is very good on its own. Maybe add a level of Thug or 4 to also send the enemies running away for 1 round (and get lots of attacks of opportunity & ranged damage). Valerie (with a few feats) or Jaethal can be very effective at that. Or the PC, if he's a Paladin/Inquisitor/Bard/ES/EK Sorc type. Just make sure to hold position to avoid chaotic goose chases and exposing your squishies.

With Shatter Defenses on your melees this is even better. The shaken enemies are also considered flat-footed against attacks and that means most enemies become MUCH easier to hit (and you get free sneak attacks even without other flankers). You just melt enemy encounters with a strong melee core.

 

[ArchAngel]

No need. Just turn Valerie into Kinetic Knight at lvl 2 and keep leveling her as that. First element Earth, second Water (pick Cold damage version). After that she both tanks and does more damage than any other melee except rogues. You don't need to shatter or anything.
And since all the attacks are touch she almost never misses. And she can freely use a shield as her weapon is one handed.
At high levels you can also remove the shield and use water shield instead.
So far this is the most broken shit I've seen.

 

[Haplo]

Well, shattered, flat-footed enemies have almost no touch AC

As for more damage then any melee... 8d6+4 is average 32 damage per hit. Plus maybe a little Burn bonus. But with 20/x2 crits. I think plenty of melees can do much better. Of course, in any case its still very nice for a tank.

Although Empowered that would be about 46 on average, maybe 50 with Burn... that's even better.
I haven't played a Kineticist yet, can you perma-empower?

 

[Sykar]

What would happen if you combine druid and cleric with animal domain into mystic theurge? Would that character have two animal companions?

 

[Efe]

if you have animal companion 2nd class does not grant you one.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well, shattered, flat-footed enemies have almost no touch AC

As for more damage then any melee... 8d6+4 is average 32 damage per hit. Plus maybe a little Burn bonus. But with 20/x2 crits. I think plenty of melees can do much better. Of course, in any case its still very nice for a tank.

Although Empowered that would be about 46 on average, maybe 50 with Burn... that's even better.
I haven't played a Kineticist yet, can you perma-empower?

32 per hit is more than any non sneak attack character. And it is more than that as you are getting a boost from having burn.
And that is the basic attack of KK, it works 100% of time, it has no limits per day like Rage, Smite or Bard Song or limited spells of Magus. Also it does not lower your hit chance like power attack does.

And you do this damage from round 1, no need to spend actions to debuff enemies.
And this is a shield character. No other shield character comes close.

And you cannot empower unless you want to suffer burn per attack.

 

[M. AQVILA]

What's the best class for a summoner build? Monster Tactician or Herald Caller? Has anyone here tried those two classes?

 

[ArchAngel]

Tactician is better pure summoner but Herald Caller should be better caster.

 

[Lhynn]

Respecced kalikke Into sacred hunstman because she worships some good God and she likes range or whatever. So it fits her character!!!1!!

Healbot with a pet that gets all teamwork feats. There really should be a ranger equivalent.

 

[Incendax]

Well, shattered, flat-footed enemies have almost no touch AC

As for more damage then any melee... 8d6+4 is average 32 damage per hit. Plus maybe a little Burn bonus. But with 20/x2 crits. I think plenty of melees can do much better. Of course, in any case its still very nice for a tank.

Although Empowered that would be about 46 on average, maybe 50 with Burn... that's even better.
I haven't played a Kineticist yet, can you perma-empower?

It’s less damage than an optimized Nok-Nok, but it’s a great package deal. That damage is being dealt to everyone in an AOE, and checking for Trips or Pushes with every attack, which triggers AOO from allies (not you).

Kineticist can perma empower, and that’s why most people recommend going Kineticist over Kinetic Knight. Kineticist just has a very painful Level 1-4.

 

[Sykar]

What's the best class for a summoner build? Monster Tactician or Herald Caller? Has anyone here tried those two classes?

I prefer Sylvan Sorcerer and Druid over MT and HC purely on class preference.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well, shattered, flat-footed enemies have almost no touch AC

As for more damage then any melee... 8d6+4 is average 32 damage per hit. Plus maybe a little Burn bonus. But with 20/x2 crits. I think plenty of melees can do much better. Of course, in any case its still very nice for a tank.

Although Empowered that would be about 46 on average, maybe 50 with Burn... that's even better.
I haven't played a Kineticist yet, can you perma-empower?

It’s less damage than an optimized Nok-Nok, but it’s a great package deal. That damage is being dealt to everyone in an AOE, and checking for Trips or Pushes with every attack, which triggers AOO from allies (not you).

Kineticist can perma empower, and that’s why most people recommend going Kineticist over Kinetic Knight. Kineticist just has a very painful Level 1-4.

Kineticist cannot perma empower unless you use Gather Power which costs at least a move action every round. Also that trip only works with Earth Blast and Earth Blast is not a touch attack.

Kinetic Knight does non Empowered damage with every hit and he can have 3 attacks +1 from Haste.

 

[Incendax]

Kineticist cannot perma empower unless you use Gather Power which costs at least a move action every round. Also that trip only works with Earth Blast and Earth Blast is not a touch attack.

You can do a supercharged move action Gather Power every turn without negatively impacting your AOE. Trip is physical, but if your To Hit is good enough there is little reason not to use physical attacks since they do so much more damage.

 

[ArchAngel]

Kineticist cannot perma empower unless you use Gather Power which costs at least a move action every round. Also that trip only works with Earth Blast and Earth Blast is not a touch attack.

You can do a supercharged move action Gather Power every turn without negatively impacting your AOE. Trip is physical, but if your To Hit is good enough there is little reason not to use physical attacks since they do so much more damage.

Exactly what I said. But it does not make Kineticist superior to KK as KK can do more than one attack per round, does not cause AoO and has better defense.

Also vs enemies you really want to trip, those always have crazy AC and you want to hit their touch AC.

KK also can have perma Defensive Fighting on when using touch version of his melee attack as it will not impact that much his hit chances. I have to try if Power Attack works with touch version of his melee attack. That would be awesome and "free" bonus damage.

I rather do 2-3 attacks with melee than one empowered (that is only 50% damage bonus to one attack).

 

[Incendax]

Exactly what I said. But it does not make Kineticist superior to KK as KK can do more than one attack per round, does not cause AoO and has better defense.

Kineticist can also take Kinetic Blade. The discount difference is 1, and the KK never gets Supercharge to help with Composite costs. The only time KK is blatantly superior is Levels 1-4.

I rather do 2-3 attacks with melee than one empowered (that is only 50% damage bonus to one attack).

Kinetic Knight (8th) - Hasted - Deals 1 attack on the first round, and 3 attacks on the second round, 3 attacks on the third round, and 3 attacks on the fourth round. 10 multipliers on damage. 10 attempts to Trip/Push. Kineticist (8th) - Gathers Power for 1, then empowered shoots for 1.5 AOE each round. 6 multipliers on damage per target. 4 attempts to Trip/Push per target.

We can see that Kineticist pulls ahead on damage any time there are two targets in range, but needs three targets to have more Trip/Push attempts. So the KK is a good vehicle for delivering Trip/Push, but the Kineticist can come close while keeping his options open. Or he can pull out his own Kinetic Blade and do the same thing.