Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[hell bovine]

Sirocco and acid fog, with something like tar pit to hold them inside. Polar midnight if you have it. Layer the field & then initiate combat by a fireball or another long range spell, to lure them into the mass aoe spam.

Thanks for the Acid Fog tip. Easier when there are chokepoints. The other one where you're stuck in the big room, I had to spam 4 Siroccos to win.

Fun fact: you can skip most of the annoying experience by going dimension door hopping. After a few tries

Spoiler

Jaethal, my oh so special winged sorceress, managed to hop into Nyrissa's room and trigger the cutscene, which teleported the rest of the party in.

 

[Luckmann]

The Lawful Evil barony heraldry reminds me of something. I juuuust can't put my finger on it.

Genuinely my first thought.

 

[Luckmann]

But how do you make will o wisp slip on oiled ground

Spells like Stinking Cloud you do not need to inhale for them to work

I'd say it actually would be great if that spell only worked on those who 100% inhale it; while Cloud Kill and Acid Fog (obviously) would not. It would bring some interesting variation for types of mustard gas you use

I agree, and it's the type of things I often see GM's employing, without even needing to call it house rules because it's more of a "Makes sense" type thing when it comes to interpreting the rules. Likewise, a Will'o'Wisp should not be able to slip in Grease, but depending on how you read Grease and how autistic you are, it actually might, even in the PnP. It's a bit more clear in the PnP that it's not RAI, though, because Will-o-wisps have a Perfect Fly Speed of 50 feet. If Grease is usable on wisps in PF:K, I'd definitely consider that an oversight, and probably something related to the fact that Grease was only recently introduced at all (although they shouldn't be subject to certain other effects either, like Entangle, imo).

 

[ArchAngel]

But how do you make will o wisp slip on oiled ground

Spells like Stinking Cloud you do not need to inhale for them to work

I'd say it actually would be great if that spell only worked on those who 100% inhale it; while Cloud Kill and Acid Fog (obviously) would not. It would bring some interesting variation for types of mustard gas you use

I agree, and it's the type of things I often see GM's employing, without even needing to call it house rules because it's more of a "Makes sense" type thing when it comes to interpreting the rules. Likewise, a Will'o'Wisp should not be able to slip in Grease, but depending on how you read Grease and how autistic you are, it actually might, even in the PnP. It's a bit more clear in the PnP that it's not RAI, though, because Will-o-wisps have a Perfect Fly Speed of 50 feet. If Grease is usable on wisps in PF:K, I'd definitely consider that an oversight, and probably something related to the fact that Grease was only recently introduced at all (although they shouldn't be subject to certain other effects either, like Entangle, imo).

There is no pnp rule that lets you bring down flying enemies with grease. At best you can force them to drop items they are holding but are not strapped on them.

 

[Luckmann]

There is no pnp rule that lets you bring down flying enemies with grease. At best you can force them to drop items they are holding but are not strapped on them.

Like I said, it comes down to how you read it and how autistic you are. I don't subscribe to this interpretation myself but: Grease applies to it's entire "area", which a flying creature could be considered as occupying, especially if flying at ground level (i.e. 5ft). It's fucking stupid. It's a result of the 3.5/PF base assumption that everything takes place on a flat landscape by default.

But similarly, I think it's fucking stupid that a spell that is implied to work by at least some form of inhalation (both because it's literally called Stinking Cloud and the material component being a rotten egg or several skunk cabbage leaves) works by anything other than inhalation. It even works on plants, for pete's sake.

 

[Lawntoilet]

ga♥

Anyway has anyone dug through the game data and been able to find the ending slides for having either Dugath or Amiri as chief of the Tiger Lords?

 

[ArchAngel]

There is no pnp rule that lets you bring down flying enemies with grease. At best you can force them to drop items they are holding but are not strapped on them.

Like I said, it comes down to how you read it and how autistic you are. I don't subscribe to this interpretation myself but: Grease applies to it's entire "area", which a flying creature could be considered as occupying, especially if flying at ground level (i.e. 5ft). It's fucking stupid. It's a result of the 3.5/PF base assumption that everything takes place on a flat landscape by default.

But similarly, I think it's fucking stupid that a spell that is implied to work by at least some form of inhalation (both because it's literally called Stinking Cloud and the material component being a rotten egg or several skunk cabbage leaves) works by anything other than inhalation. It even works on plants, for pete's sake.

There is no room for interpretation. Let me quote the PnP description from pathfinder SRD:

A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.

The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item. A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled.

I underlined important parts.
There is no solid surface that you can use it on that will affect a flying creature. There is 0 room for GM interpretation here.

 

[SymbolicFrank]

I'm quite sure even Josh Sawyer will have serious problems winning this game on unfair difficulty

Do we know if he played it?

 

[Lagole Gon]

Welp, I've finished it properly now... Much more satisfying.

I romanced Valerie and all I got was her lousy T-Shirt. Because there was no romance-specific ending content. I guess it's bugged.

Eh...

Spoiler

Wait a minute...

Spoiler

I... I'm OK with that...

 

[mediocrepoet]

I'm quite sure even Josh Sawyer will have serious problems winning this game on unfair difficulty

Do we know if he played it?

Why would he play it? It's fun.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Welp, I've finished it properly now... Much more satisfying.

I romanced Valerie and all I got was her lousy T-Shirt. Because there was no romance-specific ending content. I guess it's bugged.

Eh...

Spoiler

Wait a minute...

Spoiler

I... I'm OK with that...

I had the same Valerie ending and the "you get lots of marriage proposals" slide, I didn't get the achievement for completing a romance either. I think you have to trigger X number of dialogues from camping (which they sped up the triggers for in the last hotfix).

 

[SymbolicFrank]

I'm quite sure even Josh Sawyer will have serious problems winning this game on unfair difficulty

Do we know if he played it?

Why would he play it? It's fun.

Because he said multiple times in interviews that he was about the only one who really knows how to play CRPG games, and that even POTD difficulty wasn't very hard if you knew what you're doing. A bit like the opposite of MCA

BTW: POTD is completely broken, because you have to give less XP and worse loot on higher difficulties, otherwise they become easy mode after the steep start.

 

[Jenkem]

I'm quite sure even Josh Sawyer will have serious problems winning this game on unfair difficulty

Do we know if he played it?

He's never tweeted about it, never talked about it, never mentioned it and anytime someone has asked about it he ignores the question. At the same time he proudly tweeted about playing KCD and backing Realms Beyond. He is absolutely butt mad that an unknown developer made a better and more beloved (by grognards) BG successor than he did.

 

[cw8]

Thought Wriggling Man was hard. Then found out that Fireball absolutely wrecks him. A few of those on spam and Flamestrikes will destroy him.

 

[Lagole Gon]

I've just realized... after I was forced to replace Harrim with Jaethal. I totally forgot about that Judgement thing...

 

[hell bovine]

Okay, but this is outright trolling. You know how chaotic characters can get the kobolds to join? Well in chapter 7, if you have neutral alignment, you can get

Spoiler

the Tortilla sorcerer to join as a party member. And he is a level 20 sorcerer.

That's right, your village king fought his way through enraged owlbears, bugged kingdom politics and stun spamming elf hordes, and what did you get? Level 17, or 18 if you are lucky.

Seems like managing a kobold kingdom is a far tougher job and Tortilla is the real hero of this story. Oh, and he also jokes how he feels lucky to not have gotten the barony, when you're adventuring through the drug lord's dreamland your capital has become.

He looks cute with the dragon wings, though.

 

[axedice]

How can I keep Jaethal "undead" till the end? I've specced her as my MT and I wouldn't want to lose her to shitty (buggy?) pantheon politicking

 

[thesheeep]

20-25 hours into the game, I just found out that you can skin animals

 

[Reinhardt]

PoE rules make sense

 

[Parabalus]

How can I keep Jaethal "undead" till the end? I've specced her as my MT and I wouldn't want to lose her to shitty (buggy?) pantheon politicking

Keep her undead in her quest and kill Tristan.

 

[Luckmann]

A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.

The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item. A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled.

I underlined important parts.
There is no solid surface that you can use it on that will affect a flying creature. There is 0 room for GM interpretation here.

The relevant part here is "The area"; the fact that it covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease is not a rules term and has no bearing on this interpretation of RAW (and the alternate use of the spell is completely useless in this regard, so I'm not sure why you'd even consider that relevant). Again, I'm not actually arguing this - I read things narratively and apply the rules accordingly regardless, and would allow players to come up with inventive uses of spells based on RAI (for example, Grease in my games would absolutely burn, despite it not being part of the rules text, because Grease is a Conjuration spell and Grease fucking burns - or you could fill up a bucket with the Grease and throw it on someone, whatever floats your boat).

The point is that it's absolutely possible to interpret it like this if you're a rules-lawyering retard, much in the same way you can argue that Stinking Cloud isn't based on stink.

On a completely separate note, saying that there is 0 room for GM interpretation is the dumbest fucking thing I ever hear when it comes to PnP. There's always room for GM interpretation, no matter how absurd it is. I've luckily never had a GM autistic enough to enforce as ridiculous interpretations as the one presented for Grease.

 

[Cael]

A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.

The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item. A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled.

I underlined important parts.
There is no solid surface that you can use it on that will affect a flying creature. There is 0 room for GM interpretation here.

The relevant part here is "The area"; the fact that it covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease is not a rules term and has no bearing on this interpretation of RAW (and the alternate use of the spell is completely useless in this regard, so I'm not sure why you'd even consider that relevant). Again, I'm not actually arguing this - I read things narratively and apply the rules accordingly regardless, and would allow players to come up with inventive uses of spells based on RAI (for example, Grease in my games would absolutely burn, despite it not being part of the rules text, because Grease is a Conjuration spell and Grease fucking burns - or you could fill up a bucket with the Grease and throw it on someone, whatever floats your boat).

The point is that it's absolutely possible to interpret it like this if you're a rules-lawyering retard, much in the same way you can argue that Stinking Cloud isn't based on stink.

On a completely separate note, saying that there is 0 room for GM interpretation is the dumbest fucking thing I ever hear when it comes to PnP. There's always room for GM interpretation, no matter how absurd it is. I've luckily never had a GM autistic enough to enforce as ridiculous interpretations as the one presented for Grease.

Grease that burns is actually in 3.5 as a level 2 spell. It disappears after you set it on fire and doing damage to everyone in it. One of the later supplements. Can't remember the name offhand because I have always felt that it was retarded for +1 spell level for an advantage and a drawback.

 

[thesheeep]

That reminds me a bit of a very awkward GM decision I witnessed about a magic/summoning rule in DSA/RoA, where there is a spell that allows you to create an area or material (like, freezing parts of a lake to walk over it).
And there is a spell that lets you summon elementals given enough material of their element.

But the GM would not allow to first freeze some water and then create an ice elemental from it because that is not explicitly written in the rules.
We did not play with that GM for very long...

 

[Zero Credibility]

On this playthrough I was pleasantly surprised that you can skip almost all the fighting in Varnhold by sneaking up on the spriggans. You only need to fight three of them downstairs and then bash on the leader until he surrenders, all the rest just go away. Even the door upstairs is left opened that way. Sure, you miss out some loot and xp, but still, it's pretty neat.

 

[ArchAngel]

A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.

The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item. A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled.

I underlined important parts.
There is no solid surface that you can use it on that will affect a flying creature. There is 0 room for GM interpretation here.

The relevant part here is "The area"; the fact that it covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease is not a rules term and has no bearing on this interpretation of RAW (and the alternate use of the spell is completely useless in this regard, so I'm not sure why you'd even consider that relevant). Again, I'm not actually arguing this - I read things narratively and apply the rules accordingly regardless, and would allow players to come up with inventive uses of spells based on RAI (for example, Grease in my games would absolutely burn, despite it not being part of the rules text, because Grease is a Conjuration spell and Grease fucking burns - or you could fill up a bucket with the Grease and throw it on someone, whatever floats your boat).

The point is that it's absolutely possible to interpret it like this if you're a rules-lawyering retard, much in the same way you can argue that Stinking Cloud isn't based on stink.

On a completely separate note, saying that there is 0 room for GM interpretation is the dumbest fucking thing I ever hear when it comes to PnP. There's always room for GM interpretation, no matter how absurd it is. I've luckily never had a GM autistic enough to enforce as ridiculous interpretations as the one presented for Grease.

I might have explained poorly what I meant by 0 GM interpretation.
To me that means GM cannot claim it works differently without it becoming a house rule.

And I don't know where you got the part that you ignore parts of spell description as you like, rule lawyer or not.
That is not a retarded rules lawyer, that is just a retart. If anyone tried to pull this kind of shit at my table, he would never be invited to play again.