Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Yosharian]

I want to have fun with a character that can do many different things depending of what I fancy for each battle, alternating spellcasting with melee and with good survivability (saves from Paladin DG should be a great bonus). I know I'll be 3 caster levels behind, hopefully it won't be too much of a penalty...

As long as you're prepared to be pretty bad at both spellcasting and melee compared to other options... The flexibility of EK is nice but don't expect to be anywhere near the level of pure spellcasters or more martial-focused builds

Well, I know 3.5 pretty well but I am ignorant regarding PF, so my apologies if I say something stupid.

People mention the Magus as a better alternative, so I read the class. It ends up with level 6 spells at level 20, and a BAB of 15, while my build will end up casting level 9 spells and with a BAB of 16. Looks like I'll be in trouble while I am at level 4-7, and probably not reap on benefits until I am 10, but it should be decent from there onwards... I hope :D

I see the Magus has tons of powers (which I didn't read in detail) while the EK only gains a few combat feats. But in exchange of that I'd get better BAB, high level spells and a huge bonus to saves (not sure how important this is in PF:K tho, but at level 20 and with a +6 item, a +10 to all saves sounds great).

First of all, with Eldritch Scion you can also get all those bonuses, and although Magus only gets Medium BAB progression, you'll lose a lot of BAB from the Sorc levels, and the last iterative attack you get isn't all that good anyway.

Let me ask you this, which spells from the Wizard/Sorc list are you planning on casting, that would provide a massive benefit over everything Magus gets?

 

[Shadenuat]

Ek attack+chain lightning is kinda fun.

Spell critical honestly feels easier to play than magus which means that eldritch knight is better magus than magus while magus is better knight than

wait im lost here.

anyway, if you want to cast spells, go with your build, it's ok, more fun than just prebuffed magusmachine.
magus is most fun with TB mod.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Mindbogglingly useless with P:K's assortment of touch spells and required micro.

I do not understand what micro is required for a Magus besides clicking the RMB on a touch spell that is to be used in combat.

 

[Ravness]

Spoiler

Well I fucked up on Valerie's build. I couldn't even hit that paladin guy with the AC 33, so She got a scar now. Even with Buffs I was hitting shitty rolls so I'll just deal with it, maybe in a second playthrough I can actually beat this guy.
Other than that just been doing kingdom shit and some companion quests before I go ahead and fastforward time

 

[Pink Eye]

Spoiler

Well I fucked up on Valerie's build. I couldn't even hit that paladin guy with the AC 33, so She got a scar now. Even with Buffs I was hitting shitty rolls so I'll just deal with it, maybe in a second playthrough I can actually beat this guy.
Other than that just been doing kingdom shit and some companion quests before I go ahead and fastforward time

Don't stress over the paladin duel. Accept the loss, and move on. Valerie has to lose the fight in order to grow as a character.

 

[Yosharian]

Mindbogglingly useless with P:K's assortment of touch spells and required micro.

I do not understand what micro is required for a Magus besides clicking the RMB on a touch spell that is to be used in combat.

If your Magus is a primary tank then this method causes big problems

 

[Efe]

Ravness winning the duel doesnt change the scar.

 

[Daidre]

I do not understand what micro is required for a Magus besides clicking the RMB on a touch spell that is to be used in combat.

Have you tried it? In RTwP most melees actually get full attacks from the first round, since they can move closer to an enemy even outside their "proper" rounds, often with subpar initiative rolls. But magus with auto-cast would try to cast spell at range, than move in melee range and waits for his second round for attack action. At this point his first target is usually dead and script goes on repeat. With the speed normally built buffed party chews through the enemies, he spends most of his time recasting his touch spell and wandering like an idiot, since auto-cast script does not "know" that he already has one touch spell "stored" and should just attack.

PS RTwP implementation of free moving + full attacks is the main reason why all PnPs fancy "pounce (charge)" builds are completely useless in the unmodded game.

 

[Trashos]

Also, even with spell combat off, you *are* going to self buff before moderately messy fights, aren't you? Shield, Mirror Image, and weapon enchantment, at least. The rest of the party may be OK with a Haste atop the long-term buffs, but Magus needs more than that.

 

[Haplo]

I do not know why you do not like wizards. I am playing a wizard right now, and he is a difference maker in tough fights, where he decisively steps in to take care of matters. In casual fighting he does jack shit due to the vancian system and the time limits, but he is not needed there.

If you took the AT PrC, he'd play very similar... except also contributing in casual fights... and would also deal a lot more damage with direct damage spells (even moreso with AT capstone).

 

[Haplo]

The problem is that with sneak attack being so OP, all other classes suck in comparison when they don't have it.

This includes Duelist, parry working or not.

Martial heavy crit builds tend to push more damage. Magi tend to do similar average damage (lower relaxed, higher burst) and be much better defense-wise.

 

[Pink Eye]

The problem is that with sneak attack being so OP, all other classes suck in comparison when they don't have it.

This includes Duelist, parry working or not.

>The problem is that with sneak attack being so OP, all other classes suck in comparison when they don't have it.
No. Sneak isn't the end all be all. Two handed fighter, pure, makes for a decent DPS. As the class contains passive in which buff up the damage for two handed weapons. The class also has a passive for power attack as well, but that isn't till later. Two handed fighters that focuses on a longbow will also do decent damage. Sword Saints can deal butt loads of damage, capable of reaching 700+. Alchemists are able to deal consistent amounts of damage via their bombs. There are so many ways to build characters. So many ways to deal high damage. Sneak attack based builds do damage, yes. However, they are not the end all be all.

It's like watching someone use the same gun over and over again in a FPS game, and not trying out different weapons.

 

[Yosharian]

35 damage per hit is an astronomical increase in damage.

 

[Trashos]

I do not know why you do not like wizards. I am playing a wizard right now, and he is a difference maker in tough fights, where he decisively steps in to take care of matters. In casual fighting he does jack shit due to the vancian system and the time limits, but he is not needed there.

If you took the AT PrC, he'd play very similar... except also contributing in casual fights... and would also deal a lot more damage with direct damage spells (even moreso with AT capstone).

I am going to lag behind in spell levels, though. I prefer the higher spell levels. Casual fighting is not really a problem, optimization for tough fights is more important imo.

 

[Haplo]

Well, in tough fights your damage output would be ~30% higher also.

 

[Trashos]

I am more worried about the potential lack of disabling spells. I have a lot of companions who can dish out damage, but Wizards are also top disablers. Give me Icy Prison and Restricting Coils as fast as possible any day of the week (and Chains of Light etc).

 

[Daidre]

It's been a long time since I played without mods, so I experiment with classes a lot. My last attempt at dropping wizard from the party was turning Tristian into Oracle, Ancient Lorekeeper archetype. Allows him one spell from wizard spellbook at +1 level so with Magic Missle - Glitterdust - Stinking Cloud - Greater Invisibility - Echolocation - Heroism, Greater - Legendary Proportions - Seamantle makes him into one hell of universal buffer/caster/healer and I never felt the lack of proper wizard in the party.

Hm, looking at my current party (I am at the House first time since EE release):

- MC, 12 Eldritch Scoundrel + 8 Arcane Archer
- Jaethal, 20 Sacred Huntmaster with Smilodon, scimitar&board
- Regongar, 20 Edritch Scion, Orc bloodline, Greataxe
- Linzi, Bard 20
- Tristian, Ancient Lorekeeper (Oracle) lvl 20
- Jubilost, Grenadier 20

It is surprising how well party with barely any(!!) multi-classing, 5/6 chars are pure and mostly original stats, could work.

 

[Haplo]

I am more worried about the potential lack of disabling spells. I have a lot of companions who can dish out damage, but Wizards are also top disablers. Give me Icy Prison and Restricting Coils as fast as possible any day of the week (and Chains of Light etc).

Generally you have most of the reliable bread and butter aoe CC nearly from the start (Grease, Pitt, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud).

For powerful single-target disables, clerics and druids take the lead: they get VineTrap at spell level 5 (and I think its better then Icy Prison). They also get Chains of Light, like mages do.

 

[LESS T_T]

https://steamcommunity.com/games/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/announcements/detail/1715240546422579259

Chris Avellone's Pathfinder Module is Here!

Greetings, Pathfinders.

The time has come — the pen and paper adventure module “The Puzzle Box” is here!

We hope you enjoy the work of Chris Avellone and writers from our team, who created this adventure! And we are waiting for your stories from the game. We have social media accounts, read through steam and GoG forums, Reddit, we also have two Discord servers: one for Kingmaker, another one for Wrath of the Righteous. We’re waiting for your feedback on any of those platforms!

If the adventure is part of your game edition, you will find it in the “Digital Rewards” folder of Pathfinder: Kingmaker. If it isn’t — please, verify integrity of your game files. If it still won’t appear — please, create a thread about this issue in Bug Report section.

We also want to express our deepest gratitude to the testers, who ran several parties and provided a lot of feedback. Without them it would take much more time to playtest the adventure. Their help was invaluable.

And thank you all for your patience and support - this wouldn't be possible without it.

 

[Trashos]

For powerful single-target disables, clerics and druids take the lead: they get VineTrap at spell level 5 (and I think its better then Icy Prison). They also get Chains of Light, like mages do.

The latter is a strange argument. You have another 5 party members who can all do DPS.

 

[Shadenuat]

tell if the MCA module is cool

i heard paizo procrastinated for 6 months while job was already done and owlcats got shat on by fans lol

 

[Sykar]

I am more worried about the potential lack of disabling spells. I have a lot of companions who can dish out damage, but Wizards are also top disablers. Give me Icy Prison and Restricting Coils as fast as possible any day of the week (and Chains of Light etc).

Generally you have most of the reliable bread and butter aoe CC nearly from the start (Grease, Pitt, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud).

For powerful single-target disables, clerics and druids take the lead: they get VineTrap at spell level 5 (and I think its better then Icy Prison). They also get Chains of Light, like mages do.

Why exactly is it better than Icy Prison. Or Dominate Monster for that matter.

 

[Daidre]

Why exactly is it better than Icy Prison. Or Dominate Monster for that matter.

Icy Prison is Evocation, Vinetrap is Conjuration. Conjuration ignores spell resistance and lot of enemies has it in the game due to fey templates. Pairs nice with Stinking Cloud, Glitterdust and Grease for a school focus (Sylvan sorc gets it through bloodline). Heighten spell helps them to get higher DC.

Dominate Monster is enchantment, worst school in P:K - fey, undead, constructs and etc all have blanket immunities.

 

[Ravness]

Apparently it's not a free module, you gotta have the royal edition

 

[Sykar]

Why exactly is it better than Icy Prison. Or Dominate Monster for that matter.

Icy Prison is Evocation, Vinetrap is Conjuration. Conjuration ignores spell resistance and lot of enemies has it in the game due to fey templates. Pairs nice with Stinking Cloud, Glitterdust and Grease for a school focus (Sylvan sorc gets it through bloodline). Heighten spell helps them to get higher DC.

Dominate Monster is enchantment, worst school in P:K - fey, undead, constructs and etc all have blanket immunities.

Sylvan is so overrated unless you go solo. I'd rather go Arcane or Dragon Bloodline. SR should not be a big problem with GSP feat and gear so long as you stay pure caster and do not lose caster levels.