Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Heroic Liberator]

Halfway through Nyrissa's house and not seeing what the big deal is so far. All the companions are right there at the start, and if you case freedom of movement the wild hunt guys are pushovers.

The House was much worse at launch and its still a stupid badly implemented place.

In which way was it worse at launch?

It's an honest question, I played the game at launch and during my last playthrough (a month ago) I didn't find any sensible difference.

The fact that you can lose a strong bard companion, with no way to replace them. For example. If you're a new player and depended heavily on Linzi, then you're ultimately fucked.

Wait, does the you-know-what book thing no longer happen?

 

[Pink Eye]

Nope. Still happens. You can now hire mercs to replace them.

 

[Efe]

some companions died regardless of their quest outcome. Mobs were a lot more numerous.
i remember monarchs just not dying.
you start a fight and half the group is stuck in hallway on a invisible barrier.
shitty pathfinding near mandragoras

 

[Pink Eye]

Well, factor in the numerous bugs. And you'll have a rather unpleasent time. I myself suffered from a ridiculous bug where enemies had stacking AC. Much amusement that was.

 

[NJClaw]

No access to mercs for one, which meant you could create a no-win scenario for yourself if you didn't do companion quests.

Wait, you couldn't bring your mercenaries to the house? Or are you talking about the pregenerated ones?

Halfway through Nyrissa's house and not seeing what the big deal is so far. All the companions are right there at the start, and if you case freedom of movement the wild hunt guys are pushovers.

The House was much worse at launch and its still a stupid badly implemented place.

In which way was it worse at launch?

It's an honest question, I played the game at launch and during my last playthrough (a month ago) I didn't find any sensible difference.

The fact that you can lose a strong bard companion, with no way to replace them. For example. If you're a new player and depended heavily on Linzi, then you're ultimately fucked.

Yeah, that's probably a bit too much. Linzi was the single most important character in my group as a sylvan sorcerer (she was my party buffer and my tank and cc was mostly on her), but the game was still finishable.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

IIRC companion was more spread out as well so there was some mandatory solo battle which can screw people with a bad build.

And the fact that everything was Wild Hunt. At least there is supposed to be a new enemy now.

 

[Fedora Master]

No access to mercs for one, which meant you could create a no-win scenario for yourself if you didn't do companion quests.

Wait, you couldn't bring your mercenaries to the house? Or are you talking about the pregenerated ones?

Entering the House is a point of no return and there was no NPC to help you create mercs in the area. So unless you did all companion quests (and even then...) you ended up with an extremely gimped party.

 

[NJClaw]

No access to mercs for one, which meant you could create a no-win scenario for yourself if you didn't do companion quests.

Wait, you couldn't bring your mercenaries to the house? Or are you talking about the pregenerated ones?

Entering the House is a point of no return and there was no NPC to help you create mercs in the area. So unless you did all companion quests (and even then...) you ended up with an extremely gimped party.

Even if it's a bit harsh, that's fair play to me. Except for Amiri's quest and the Tristian/Jaethal argument, companions' quests are extremely straightforward and you need to screw up badly to lose them.

 

[Fedora Master]

No access to mercs for one, which meant you could create a no-win scenario for yourself if you didn't do companion quests.

Wait, you couldn't bring your mercenaries to the house? Or are you talking about the pregenerated ones?

Entering the House is a point of no return and there was no NPC to help you create mercs in the area. So unless you did all companion quests (and even then...) you ended up with an extremely gimped party.

Even if it's a bit harsh, that's fair play to me. Except for Amiri's quest and the Tristian/Jaethal argument, companions' quests are extremely straightforward and you need to screw up badly to lose them.

I never did most of them because at the time I wanted to a) keep a bit of content for a second playthrough and b) ignore Amiri and those other retarded companions.

 

[LannTheStupid]

fuck Amiri and those other retarded companions.

Such attitude is a perfect recipe not only to abandon the Baron in a critical moment, but to shank him in the back when the time is right.

I wonder if any game development studio would be bold enough to make a game where a companion whose quest is not progressing just ends the game by killing the protagonist, thus forcing the player to rollback 50-70 hours of gameplay. May be some Russians some day...

 

[Fedora Master]

NWN2 already did that, and better. The final boss even equips companions with new and better gear if you decide to be smart and strip the ones that will turn on you first. He even makes a smug comment about it.

 

[DalekFlay]

I lost Amiri because of my choices in her quest, but Ragwhatever is a half-decent replacement if you equipped him decently. If you didn't (or anyone you didn't normally use) I could see that being frustrating.

 

[Pink Eye]

Beep.

 

[Desiderius]

I never did most of them because at the time I wanted to a) keep a bit of content for a second playthrough and b) ignore Amiri and those other retarded companions.

So not only did you refuse to play the game as designed, you refused to even be aware of how it was designed. Why is your design critique supposed to matter?

I'm truly mystified by the "I didn't do companion quest because companion is retarded" argument. How do you even know?

Turns out the game takes three versions of classic Western Mary Sue plague and runs them aground in different ways, but if you decide they're retarded you never even find out.

 

[Fedora Master]

Ah yes, ignoring companions you don't like is "playing the game wrong".

 

[NJClaw]

Ah yes, ignoring companions you don't like is "playing the game wrong".

No, but if you don't like those companions why would you bring them around?

 

[Pink Eye]

The only issue I have with the end game dungeon, is Linzi. Her fate is unavoidable. Not much you can do to avoid it. It also doesn't help that it occurs in the middle of the dungeon. It hurt me on my first playthrough. It doesn't impact me anymore. Because I now know how to build my monks and companions in such a way where the absence of a bard doesn't affect me.

 

[Fedora Master]

Ah yes, ignoring companions you don't like is "playing the game wrong".

No, but if you don't like those companions why would you bring them around?

All companions end up at the House no matter what.

 

[NJClaw]

Ah yes, ignoring companions you don't like is "playing the game wrong".

No, but if you don't like those companions why would you bring them around?

All companions end up at the House no matter what.

I'm aware of that, but losing them is relevant for your playthrough only if you use them in your regular group. Why would you care about losing Valerie (or any other companion) if you don't care about her? And if you do care about her, why would you avoid her personal quest?

 

[Desiderius]

Some people enjoy updating our priors, some enjoy trashing the world to confirm them.

 

[Desiderius]

Ah yes, ignoring companions you don't like is "playing the game wrong".

Yes, but deciding you don't like them without evidence is the problem I was addressing.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Why would you care about losing Valerie (or any other companion) if you don't care about her? And if you do care about her, why would you avoid her personal quest?

AFAIK you can end up with only Val alive so that's probably game over in the old version.

I would say it is a fitting end if you can't finish the game with 2 characters.

 

[Fedora Master]

Ah yes, ignoring companions you don't like is "playing the game wrong".

No, but if you don't like those companions why would you bring them around?

All companions end up at the House no matter what.

I'm aware of that, but losing them is relevant for your playthrough only if you use them in your regular group. Why would you care about losing Valerie (or any other companion) if you don't care about her? And if you do care about her, why would you avoid her personal quest?

My first visit to the House went something like this:
- Ignored Amiri
- Linzi gets taken out anyway
- Ignored Jubilost
- Tried to get the goblin but apparently did the quest "wrong" so he died
- Regongar and Octavia simply vanished because of bugs
- Had Valerie which I had ignored most of the game because everything about her is terrible, fluff and mechanics both
- Picked up Harrim
- Found Ekun early on but couldn't fight the monster with just two people
- Jaethal and Tristian killed each other and Jeathal - which I had ignored - was the one to survive

 

[LannTheStupid]

three versions of classic Western Mary Sue

Who is the third one? I remember Amiri and Valerie.

Or do you consider Tristian a Mary Sue?

Yes, but deciding you don't like them without evidence is the problem I was addressing.

I need no evidence to like or not to like anyone (or anything for that matter). But I have to bear the consequences of my decisions, whatever motivates them. So if my not liking someone costs me a job I'd have to deal with it.

And that is exactly what Pathfinder: Kingmaker does.

 

[Pink Eye]

Meh. I liked the companions. If you dedicated at least some time towards learning about them and doing their quests. You'd understand that they're all charming and cute in their own way. If I had to pick one that I didn't like. It'd probably be Linzi. She is so forced onto the player.... Her entire premise is,"Hey! I don't care what you think about me. I also don't care if you want me out of your party. I am writing a book about you. Why? No clue. I got up one morning and thought to me self,'Hey it'd a good idea to write a random book about a random adventurer doing random adventurer stuff'. Also, you are stuck with me! Forever! Also, also, don't piss me off! Or else I will say bad things about you in my book! Deal with it!"

Now that I think about it, her fate was probably deserved.