Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[NJClaw]

I just started playing Pathfinder Kingmaker today for the first time. Not looking for any tips yet as I want to see how far I can get by myself. But I have one issue with the turn-based mod:
Whenever I attack or cast a spell, my characters turn doesn't end automatically and doing so manually gets annoying fast. Is there some free action I can still do I am forgetting about? I use the mod with all setting as set by default with no changes.

You have three actions: Move, Standard and Swift. If I remember correctly, with the default settings, the turn ends on its own only if you used up all of them. You can change the behavior with an option that's called something like "end turn: ignore swift actions". You can also set your own shortcut (it's far easier to end your turn pressing "e" than clicking the button every single time).

Also the 5 foot step if they haven't moved in their turn. You'd still get that even after a full round action.

Right. And, if I'm not mistaken, the mod doesn't offer settings to "ignore the 5 foot step" (or, at least, I haven't found them). So, unless you actually used your move action to move around, you will still need to manually end your turn even with the "ignore swift action" option.

Yes that seems to be the case unfortunately. I've now enabled "end turn: ignore swift actions", but no change still need a manual end turn.
Well that's one point for PoE2 (played that one for the first time only a month ago after buying them both on the GOG spring sale so now I can't help but compare them).

Got two more generic questions:

1. I've played both NWN1&2 so I am somewhat familiar with the RPG system. Any big differences I should know of or is the gist of it still the same?

2. For my main character I made an Arcane Sorcerer which I plan on leaving as pure Sorcerer. Is that a valid "plan" or should I branch out?

It's not just a "valid" plan, it's a very good one. A Sylvan Sorcerer would make things a lot easier for you since animal companions are extremely strong (and nearly overpowered in certain parts of the game), but even as a pure caster the character is more than viable.

Everything comes down to which companions you choose and how you build them. A lot of them already are some variation of an arcane caster (a Bard, a Magus and a Wizard/Rogue), but it's not hard to build them to cover different roles (Octavia can be a ranged damage dealer, Linzi a buffer, Regongar a tank and your main character a debuffer/controller).

 

[Tacgnol]

2. For my main character I made an Arcane Sorcerer which I plan on leaving as pure Sorcerer. Is that a valid "plan" or should I branch out?

As others have said, you don't really need to multiclass or take prestiges in Pathfinder. Paizo balanced most classes around single classing, as you tend to get a lot more "goodies" for focusing compared to 3.5.

Not to say there aren't interesting multi class and prestige combos of course.

 

[DalekFlay]

Unless you mod the game you're pretty much forced to multi-class Octavia, or ignore her. Outside of that I never felt like I "should" multi-class anyone.

 

[NJClaw]

Unless you mod the game you're pretty much forced to multi-class Octavia, or ignore her. Outside of that I never felt like I "should" multi-class anyone.

Well, she already starts as a multiclass character.

But she is extremely strong even if you completely ignore her Rogue side and just level her up as a Wizard. Even if you want to build her as an Arcane Trickster, you don't need to take any more Rogue levels than she already has.

 

[DalekFlay]

But she is extremely strong even if you completely ignore her Rogue side and just level her up as a Wizard. Even if you want to build her as an Arcane Trickster, you don't need to take any more Rogue levels than she already has.

I guess I was thinking along the lines of "she'll always be weaker as a straight wizard than a PC that never took a rogue level" but I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean you can't do it, so fair enough.

 

[Neroon]

everyone who gave me advice:

Thanks for info. Since unlike PoE2 you got Spells per rest rather than encounter, I was wondering if I should go take a level in Fighter or Paladin and then go Eldritch Knight like I did in NWN2 to be more useful when not casting spells. Only now you also seem to miss out on some Sorcerer feats, not just one spell level if you go EK.

It's not just a "valid" plan, it's a very good one. A Sylvan Sorcerer would make things a lot easier for you since animal companions are extremely strong (and nearly overpowered in certain parts of the game), but even as a pure caster the character is more than viable.

I did some research about Sorcerers and read about the Sylvans, but I never liked using pets. And one should always prioritize fun over power in RPGs IMHO.

 

[Lawntoilet]

everyone who gave me advice:

Thanks for info. Since unlike PoE2 you got Spells per rest rather than encounter, I was wondering if I should go take a level in Fighter or Paladin and then go Eldritch Knight like I did in NWN2 to be more useful when not casting spells. Only now you also seem to miss out on some Sorcerer feats, not just one spell level if you go EK.

It's not just a "valid" plan, it's a very good one. A Sylvan Sorcerer would make things a lot easier for you since animal companions are extremely strong (and nearly overpowered in certain parts of the game), but even as a pure caster the character is more than viable.

I did some research about Sorcerers and read about the Sylvans, but I never liked using pets. And one should always prioritize fun over power in RPGs IMHO.

Sorc/Pal/EK is still a good build, but only if you want a different playstyle from a straight Sorc.
I guess another change in the system is you have unlimited 0-level cantrips so at low levels even if you're out of spell slots you can just cast Jolt or Acid Splash every round instead of using a crossbow or something.

 

[Lacrymas]

Crossbows do more damage ;d

 

[Pink Eye]

Yeah. I wouldn't recommend using cantrips. Unless you're packing some sneak attack die, your cantrips are going to do fuck all for damage.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Crossbows do more damage ;d

But they target AC and not TAC.
At low levels Daze is better, at higher levels you'll have plenty of slots to cast real spells.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Yeah. I wouldn't recommend using cantrips. Unless you're packing some sneak attack die, your cantrips are going to do fuck all for damage.

Low-level casters will do fuck all for damage at-will regardless though.

 

[NJClaw]

everyone who gave me advice:

Thanks for info. Since unlike PoE2 you got Spells per rest rather than encounter, I was wondering if I should go take a level in Fighter or Paladin and then go Eldritch Knight like I did in NWN2 to be more useful when not casting spells. Only now you also seem to miss out on some Sorcerer feats, not just one spell level if you go EK.

It's not just a "valid" plan, it's a very good one. A Sylvan Sorcerer would make things a lot easier for you since animal companions are extremely strong (and nearly overpowered in certain parts of the game), but even as a pure caster the character is more than viable.

I did some research about Sorcerers and read about the Sylvans, but I never liked using pets. And one should always prioritize fun over power in RPGs IMHO.

Usually a spell or two per encounter is enough to win the fight (where "win" means setting things in motion so that your other characters will have an easy time of the enemy), so you shouldn't have any "I'm out of slots, what I'm going to do?" problem. If you choose to multiclass, you will also have fewer slots (as a Paladin/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight you are always from 2 to 4 levels behind a pure Sorcerer), so you could possibly make things even harder for yourself.

If you want to play a "caster", you should stick to pure Sorcerer. Maybe, you can spend two feats to get Weapon Focus and Dazzling Display: whenever you are not using your round to cast a spell, you can intimidate your opponents to make them Shaken for one round. Shaken is a very strong condition on its own (-2 to saves and attack rolls is noticeable), but its strongest point is the fact that it allows to use the feat Shatter Defenses (and that may very well be the strongest feat in the entire game).

If you want to play a strong and versatile "tank" (there are no true "taunting" abilities, so a tank is just a very resilient character) who is also a powerhouse of spells, go for a Paladin/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight. You will dominate the front line with spells like Mirror Image, Shield, Displacement (and many other at later levels), but you will always be behind other casters: a Sorcerer already learns spells at a slow pace compared to Wizards, Druids and Clerics and you will even be a couple of levels behind another Sorcerer. This means that you will never have access to the strongest possible spells when you most need them: a Wizard learns Haste, Slow and Fireball at level 5, a Sorcerer at level 6 and a Paladin/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight at level 8 (at best), 9 (if you take 2 Paladin levels for CHA to saves) or 10 (if you also take a Monk level for CHA to AC).

 

[Pink Eye]

Yeah. I wouldn't recommend using cantrips. Unless you're packing some sneak attack die, your cantrips are going to do fuck all for damage.

Low-level casters will do fuck all for damage at-will regardless though.

>Low-level casters will do fuck all for damage
No. I don't agree. Get STR to 16, supplement with power attack. Specialize into a reach based weapon, and you'll do decent damage.

 

[Pink Eye]

Crossbows do more damage ;d

But they target AC and not TAC.
At low levels Daze is better, at higher levels you'll have plenty of slots to cast real spells.

That's why you get point blank and precise shot at level 1. That's why humans are perfect for ranged users. And if you're not going to specialize into a composite longbow, you can afford to keep STR at 10 or 9, and put the points elsewhere.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Yeah. I wouldn't recommend using cantrips. Unless you're packing some sneak attack die, your cantrips are going to do fuck all for damage.

Low-level casters will do fuck all for damage at-will regardless though.

>Low-level casters will do fuck all for damage
No. I don't agree. Get STR to 16, supplement with power attack. Specialize into a reach based weapon, and you'll do decent damage.

If you're building specifically to use weapons then yes that's a different story.
I was assuming Neroon wasn't planning that, but if he is then yeah you can do it. I was considering more "typical" Sorc builds.

 

[Lacrymas]

Casting daze would be better than either crossbows or damaging cantrips though.

 

[gurugeorge]

People were talking about AoEs there. I've got to say, if there's one thing I really dislike about the system it's the massive size and long time of the AoE slows, from both points of view. (e.g. I'd love to be able to dismiss at will).

I mean, I've been seeing people praise Entangle and Web, every build seems to recommend them. Seriously? How the hell are those things in any way practical? The center point of the massive AoE of Entangle is so close to the mobs that the caster has to venture quite close to them, and Web's nearly as bad. Only Grease is of any actual use. It's gotten to the point where I don't even bother taking them or memorizing them any more, because their usefulness is so extremely situational.

Or am I using them wrong? Are they designed (from the enemy's pov) around assuming your party has Haste or other speed-ups like Expeditious Retreat/Longstrider?

Half the size, half the time and/or dismissable, please.

 

[pm_675]

You use this mod:

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/127 Remove Area Effects

 

[gurugeorge]

You use this mod:

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/127 Remove Area Effects

Thanks, I do use that for post-combat, but I meant that dismiss doesn't seem to be part of the rules (or is it? I seem to recall that Eldritch Arcana has an "official" Dismiss Spell, which I guess must be part of Paizo's rules if EA is putting it in).

 

[NJClaw]

You use this mod:

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/127 Remove Area Effects

Thanks, I do use that for post-combat, but I meant that dismiss doesn't seem to be part of the rules (or is it? I seem to recall that Eldritch Arcana has an "official" Dismiss Spell, which I guess must be part of Paizo's rules if EA is putting it in).

Pathfinder has rules to dismiss ongoing spells. If a spell is dismissible (and most of them are), the caster can spend a Standard action to dismiss it. However, Owlcat chose not to implement this feature in Kingmaker (and I can't understand why, since it's a problem with a simple and straightforward solution).

 

[Pink Eye]

3 years later I am still mystified.

 

[mediocrepoet]

3 years later I am still mystified.

I just figured that was Cephal trying to push Varn to rule in a way more to his liking.

 

[Ghulgothas]

3 years later I am still mystified.

Much too pointed and scolding to be be Irovetti.

 

[Pink Eye]

3 years later I am still mystified.

I just figured that was Cephal trying to push Varn to rule in a way more to his liking.

That actually makes more sense than my theory. My theory was that it was one of the cultists or horse people, from the DLC, that sent the letter to him.

 

[Lawntoilet]

This baron from Monks!

Kek
Never change, Pink Eye