Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Hell your Reach melees now also are subject to sofcovers +4 AC bonus to the enemy if your tank stands between your melee DD and the opponent so there is that, too.

Hell, difficulty I usually play on gives +6 AC to any enemy always, +4 flat and 2 from extra DEX. And it does not turn all bandits, goblins and ghosts with Rogue levels into trash.

With CotW that becomes +10. All goblins and bandits were already trash. Ghosts yeah, I guess, I don't remember Sneaks being much of a thing unmodded? Mainly worried about Plague Storm from Mage.

Certainly the main challenge in Ratnook Cave is the Sneaks from the lvl 8 dude. Maybe that one fight in Pitax Palace against super Rogue with a zillion adds? Demon Torturer dude with Smilodons also Rogue. Other than that not really feeling it.

 

[Daidre]

Ghosts yeah, I guess, I don't remember Sneaks being much of a thing unmodded? Mainly worried about Plague Storm from Mage.

All melee ghosts are pure Rogues, and rely on flanking to land Crippling and Dispelling sneaks:

Spoiler

Wild Hunt Scouts has Fey as the class but all of them got a sneak attack too:

Spoiler

I also did first 4 level of the main campaign's version of Tenebrous Depths yesterday, and yes, they are filled with were-creatures, goblins and even Doomspiders all of whom heavily rely on sneaks to do damage.

So "proper" flanking is a sure way to neuter like 2/3 of the endgame.

 

[Sykar]

Hell your Reach melees now also are subject to sofcovers +4 AC bonus to the enemy if your tank stands between your melee DD and the opponent so there is that, too.

Hell, difficulty I usually play on gives +6 AC to any enemy always, +4 flat and 2 from extra DEX. And it does not turn all bandits, goblins and ghosts with Rogue levels into trash.

Yeah positional AC bonus that can be avoided by smart positioning/feat choices is totally the same as straight up retarded stat bloat.

Ghosts yeah, I guess, I don't remember Sneaks being much of a thing unmodded? Mainly worried about Plague Storm from Mage.

All melee ghosts are pure Rogues, and rely on flanking to land Crippling and Dispelling sneaks:

Spoiler

Wild Hunt Scouts has Fey as the class but all of them got a sneak attack too:

Spoiler

I also did first 4 level of the main campaign's version of Tenebrous Depths yesterday, and yes, they are filled with were-creatures, goblins and even Doomspiders all of whom heavily rely on sneaks to do damage.

So "proper" flanking is a sure way to neuter like 2/3 of the endgame.

Because "endgame" is so enjoyable in this game.

 

[Desiderius]

Faceroll isn't enjoyable either.

 

[Daidre]

Faceroll isn't enjoyable either.

Well, slow, methodical faceroll with the smart positioning in TB is different. It is special kind of pleasure only the most prestigious people could enjoy.

 

[NJClaw]

No. He did not beat it on Unfair.

I seem to remember him posting his achievement list, maybe it wasn't the Unfair achievement but it was one from beating the game.
Could've also just been a shoop I suppose but he seems butthurt enough that he rage-played the game and regrets it.

He did beat it, on challenging. See:

If he finished the game on Challenging difficulty, I don't understand how can he complain about spells not doing enough damage. If you manage to click on your spell icon and then click on the enemy, spells do plenty of damage. On my first playthrough on Challenging I relied on blasts from the first chapter to the last one and Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Delayed Fireball, Dragon Breath, Flame Strike, Stormbolts and their empowered versions never lost their usefulness.

 

[NJClaw]

if you didnt have linzi they would be dogging octavia like crazy.

Not if you keep her out of enemies range and engage with your melee guys. Enemies are not smart enough to move to reach your back line guys: if they see one of your characters, they attack him and keep attacking him even if other better targets appear.

[...] Create Pitt [...]

This took me more time than I care to admit...

Pretty sure that's Rift of Ruin.

Never actually used a single spell from that line, if they work like in PnP it's basically cheating just as much as using Delay Poison + area poison spell X.

 

[Yosharian]

[19:06] Yosharian: Dog is ok tho
[19:06] Yosharian: If you buff him with Transformation he gets 4APR
[19:15] viiito: I´m not sure alchemist have beast shape without CoTW but use alchemist beast shape on a dog to turn it into a smilodon and the dog keeps the iterative attack bite and gains 4 extra claw attacks
[19:15] viiito: with transformation, that should be 8APR

 

[NJClaw]

[19:06] Yosharian: Dog is ok tho
[19:06] Yosharian: If you buff him with Transformation he gets 4APR
[19:15] viiito: I´m not sure alchemist have beast shape without CoTW but use alchemist beast shape on a dog to turn it into a smilodon and the dog keeps the iterative attack bite and gains 4 extra claw attacks
[19:15] viiito: with transformation, that should be 8APR

Yes, it's 8 attacks, 9 with Haste. You also have pounce (otherwise, all these attacks would be useless) and every bite triggers a trip attempt. Sadly, this comes online very late, because you need a level 17 Alchemist to be able to cast both Transformation and Beast Shape 4 (and Transformation lasts for a couple of encounters at best). Alternatively, you can also do it with two level 16 Alchemists. This still makes me laugh a lot, because a dog being a far better smilodon than the smilodon itself is the perfect summary of 3.x.

When I tested Beast Shape 4 on animal companions, I also tried to use it on a bear hoping that the Rend damage would trigger on each claw, but it triggers only once per turn.

 

[Desiderius]

if you didnt have linzi they would be dogging octavia like crazy.

Not if you keep her out of enemies range and engage with your melee guys. Enemies are not smart enough to move to reach your back line guys: if they see one of your characters, they attack him and keep attacking him even if other better targets appear.

[...] Create Pitt [...]

This took me more time than I care to admit...

Pretty sure that's Rift of Ruin.

Never actually used a single spell from that line, if they work like in PnP it's basically cheating just as much as using Delay Poison + area poison spell X.

Farrinas came out of an Acid Pit to finish off my team with 12HP left after five straight whiffs from poor Amiri. She gave it a valiant effort.

 

[Desiderius]

[19:06] Yosharian: Dog is ok tho
[19:06] Yosharian: If you buff him with Transformation he gets 4APR
[19:15] viiito: I´m not sure alchemist have beast shape without CoTW but use alchemist beast shape on a dog to turn it into a smilodon and the dog keeps the iterative attack bite and gains 4 extra claw attacks
[19:15] viiito: with transformation, that should be 8APR

What have I done?

 

[Desiderius]

No. He did not beat it on Unfair.

I seem to remember him posting his achievement list, maybe it wasn't the Unfair achievement but it was one from beating the game.
Could've also just been a shoop I suppose but he seems butthurt enough that he rage-played the game and regrets it.

He did beat it, on challenging. See:

If he finished the game on Challenging difficulty, I don't understand how can he complain about spells not doing enough damage. If you manage to click on your spell icon and then click on the enemy, spells do plenty of damage. On my first playthrough on Challenging I relied on blasts from the first chapter to the last one and Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Delayed Fireball, Dragon Breath, Flame Strike, Stormbolts and their empowered versions never lost their usefulness.

Because he wants his priors confirmed instead of challenged. He’s not sure if he has what it takes to make new ones.

Growing up on coin-ops sucked because we had to steal quarters from our grandmas but at least we didn’t have the luxury of clinging to our priors. It was adapt or die.

 

[Haplo]

if you didnt have linzi they would be dogging octavia like crazy.

Not if you keep her out of enemies range and engage with your melee guys. Enemies are not smart enough to move to reach your back line guys: if they see one of your characters, they attack him and keep attacking him even if other better targets appear.

[...] Create Pitt [...]

This took me more time than I care to admit...

Pretty sure that's Rift of Ruin.

Never actually used a single spell from that line, if they work like in PnP it's basically cheating just as much as using Delay Poison + area poison spell X.

Farrinas came out of an Acid Pit to finish off my team with 12HP left after five straight whiffs from poor Amiri. She gave it a valiant effort.

Well, a pit will be effective at keeping his skeletal guards in check. But you still do need effective tactics to dispose of the lich himself...

 

[Desiderius]

Well, a pit will be effective at keeping his skeletal guards in check. But you still do need effective tactics to dispose of the lich himself...

Well, accidently triggering the fight with a summon before buffing on Unfair was never going to be easy. He did fall into the Pit after roasting half the team but he didn't take enough damage to finish him off before the Pit ran out.

Persistent effects OP:

Looks like Hungry Pit, not Acid. Looks like Guardian Armor may be Sundering MC's Armor here. Fight was a clusterfuck from start to finish.

Looks like Jewb got him Blinded before going down. Wonder if that's how he failed the Reflex Save on Pit.

 

[Neroon]

Everyone thanks for the advice so far. Can't give you any likes or stuff, since it seems I've not been a member long enough to use those.

Desiderius : Under which settings can you add that hotkey sidebar you have on the left?

Anyway I finished the first chapter today. Now the infamous Kingdom Management has begun. I've decided to set it to "easy" in the options, albeit whatever that effects I've no idea, but otherwise not use any mods for it, to see I do in vanilla. Got annoyed that sending someone out for 14 days to do the mandatory "claim outskirts" thing means an automatic timeskip with no warning that it would do so, instead of merely making the advisor you send unavailable for the duration. Now I'm going to go finally look around town and then travel the lands before doing to "level up kingdom" thing.

Any other non-obvious pitfalls regarding Kingdom Management?

 

[Lawntoilet]

Everyone thanks for the advice so far. Can't give you any likes or stuff, since it seems I've not been a member long enough to use those.

Desiderius : Under which settings can you add that hotkey sidebar you have on the left?

Anyway I finished the first chapter today. Now the infamous Kingdom Management has begun. I've decided to set it to "easy" in the options, albeit whatever that effects I've no idea, but otherwise not use any mods for it, to see I do in vanilla. Got annoyed that sending someone out for 14 days to do the mandatory "claim outskirts" thing means an automatic timeskip with no warning that it would do so, instead of merely making the advisor you send unavailable for the duration. Now I'm going to go finally look around town and then travel the lands before doing to "level up kingdom" thing.

Any other non-obvious pitfalls regarding Kingdom Management?

Kingdom Management: Easy just adjusts the number your advisor needs to pass the check, I believe.
Any "Bald Hilltop" events or anything your advisors tell you is urgent, is probably something urgent.
Get your Divine and Arcane stats up high quickly so you can build teleportation circles.

 

[NJClaw]

Desiderius : Under which settings can you add that hotkey sidebar you have on the left?

If you select a single character, there is a small arrow on the left of the screen: click that arrow to show up to two additional action bars (you can click again to hide them). You can show those additional bars for some characters and hide them for others.

Any other non-obvious pitfalls regarding Kingdom Management?

During each chapter you will face a "Bald Hilltop Curse" quest with a timer: be sure to stay in your capital 15 days before the timer ends or you will face very annoying events with harsh penalties for your kingdom. When the timer reaches the 14 days mark, you can go to the Bald Hilltop (a small area near your capital) to advance the quest.

 

[Pink Eye]

>Any other non-obvious pitfalls regarding Kingdom Management?
Ignore projects. Ignore trade deals. Ignore everything else. Focus on Problems. Focus on artisan quests. Focus on Advisor rank ups. Spam shrines in capital in order to get Divine to 60. Rank your Divine advisor to rank 2. Once you unlock Arcana. Sell all your shrines, then spam Herbalist's House and Shrines in order to get arcana up to 40-50. Once you get it to 50 check and see if you can build teleporters. Once you can, set up teleporter network. After that, spam halfings brewery and other buildings to get Relations up to rank 4. Once you do that you should be able to unlock Espionage. From there you should focus on getting advisor rank ups to ten.

If you feel that you need to increase an advisor rank, don't be afraid to spam buildings.

 

[Neroon]

During each chapter you will face a "Bald Hilltop Curse" quest with a timer: be sure to stay in your capital 15 days before the timer ends or you will face very annoying events with harsh penalties for your kingdom.

Thanks! I remember reading something about a curse, but expect for my advisors telling me that I can NOT do something about it just yet and have to wait for it to develop, there's no info how early before the deadline I should be in town to be able to do something about it.

 

[Xamenos]

During each chapter you will face a "Bald Hilltop Curse" quest with a timer: be sure to stay in your capital 15 days before the timer ends or you will face very annoying events with harsh penalties for your kingdom.

Thanks! I remember reading something about a curse, but expect for my advisors telling me that I can NOT do something about it just yet and have to wait for it to develop, there's no info how early before the deadline I should be in town to be able to do something about it.

Be at your capital 14 days before the deadline and all shall be well.

 

[Desiderius]

Once you get the hang of the game you'll be spending 90% of your time on rank-ups and 10% traveling to do several quests at once along the way. In return you'll get loads of interesting and powerful items and kingdom effects.

 

[Desiderius]

If you want to rate comments you gotta pay up sucka!

 

[Yosharian]

[19:06] Yosharian: Dog is ok tho
[19:06] Yosharian: If you buff him with Transformation he gets 4APR
[19:15] viiito: I´m not sure alchemist have beast shape without CoTW but use alchemist beast shape on a dog to turn it into a smilodon and the dog keeps the iterative attack bite and gains 4 extra claw attacks
[19:15] viiito: with transformation, that should be 8APR

Yes, it's 8 attacks, 9 with Haste. You also have pounce (otherwise, all these attacks would be useless) and every bite triggers a trip attempt. Sadly, this comes online very late, because you need a level 17 Alchemist to be able to cast both Transformation and Beast Shape 4 (and Transformation lasts for a couple of encounters at best). Alternatively, you can also do it with two level 16 Alchemists. This still makes me laugh a lot, because a dog being a far better smilodon than the smilodon itself is the perfect summary of 3.x.

When I tested Beast Shape 4 on animal companions, I also tried to use it on a bear hoping that the Rend damage would trigger on each claw, but it triggers only once per turn.

Not necessarily, cast Beast Shape 4 with your Sorc and then cast Transformation with your Alchemist, boom

 

[NJClaw]

[19:06] Yosharian: Dog is ok tho
[19:06] Yosharian: If you buff him with Transformation he gets 4APR
[19:15] viiito: I´m not sure alchemist have beast shape without CoTW but use alchemist beast shape on a dog to turn it into a smilodon and the dog keeps the iterative attack bite and gains 4 extra claw attacks
[19:15] viiito: with transformation, that should be 8APR

Yes, it's 8 attacks, 9 with Haste. You also have pounce (otherwise, all these attacks would be useless) and every bite triggers a trip attempt. Sadly, this comes online very late, because you need a level 17 Alchemist to be able to cast both Transformation and Beast Shape 4 (and Transformation lasts for a couple of encounters at best). Alternatively, you can also do it with two level 16 Alchemists. This still makes me laugh a lot, because a dog being a far better smilodon than the smilodon itself is the perfect summary of 3.x.

When I tested Beast Shape 4 on animal companions, I also tried to use it on a bear hoping that the Rend damage would trigger on each claw, but it triggers only once per turn.

Not necessarily, cast Beast Shape 4 with your Sorc and then cast Transformation with your Alchemist, boom

Beast Shape spells have a range of personal, so you need an Alchemist to cast them on your animal companion. Maybe it's different with CotW, but I honestly never tried it.

 

[Yosharian]

Beast Shape spells have a range of personal, so you need an Alchemist to cast them on your animal companion. Maybe it's different with CotW, but I honestly never tried it.

Ah, woops