Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[LannTheStupid]

Well, for me more exciting question is: what unfair means are required to reliably beat early unfair? Is Sylvan Sorcerer as MC enough? Or is it necessary to hire the whole InEffect's gang of goons?

 

[Desiderius]

seemingly nothing stops the incoming damage?

I can't believe it took me so long to think of this since it goes directly to what I'm now contending is the heart of the game's design:

If you want to stop Unholy damage, bring non-Good companions.

 

[Desiderius]

Well, for me more exciting question is: what unfair means are required to reliably beat early unfair? Is Sylvan Sorcerer as MC enough? Or is it necessary to hire the whole InEffect's gang of goons?

Pets and/or cheese. InEffect goons get progressively worse as the game goes along. Should be able to play legit, but very carefully, by level five at the latest. For Unfair Ironman I wouldn't fight anything I didn't absolutely have to since most of your experience comes from quests.

 

[Pink Eye]

Well, for me more exciting question is: what unfair means are required to reliably beat early unfair? Is Sylvan Sorcerer as MC enough? Or is it necessary to hire the whole InEffect's gang of goons?

No clue. As you already figured out, I don't play Unfair like the way Ineffect does. But if I were to use the big think, use pets and summons.

 

[Xamenos]

Old Sycamore beat my butt hard, I'll give you that. Damned place ruined my no reload challenge. But I am telling you, it gets better once I get more levels under my belt. Just be patient. Early Unfair is like that.

Don't lose heart, I'm sure you'll surpass Old Sycamore if you keep at it.

seemingly nothing stops the incoming damage?

I can't believe it took me so long to think of this since it goes directly to what I'm now contending is the heart of the game's design:

If you want to stop Unholy damage, bring non-Good companions.

That shouldn't work. The Spawn's Unholy damage is the same as the irresistible half of Hellfire Ray's damage.

 

[Pink Eye]

I already surpassed it. I am currently planning a way of beating the temple with no reloads.

 

[LannTheStupid]

If you want to stop Unholy damage, bring non-Good companions.

That is... kind of brilliant. And if you think about it hard enough, it's really deep and have RL repercussions.

 

[Desiderius]

If you want to stop Unholy damage, bring non-Good companions.

That is... kind of brilliant. And if you think about it hard enough, it's really deep and have RL repercussions.

Machiavelli would approve.

 

[Desiderius]

The Spawn's Unholy damage is the same as the irresistible half of Hellfire Ray's damage.

Are you sure? Unholy damage from weapons only works against Good mobs for instance.

 

[NJClaw]

The Spawn's Unholy damage is the same as the irresistible half of Hellfire Ray's damage.

Are you sure? Unholy damage from weapons only works against Good mobs for instance.

In the last fight of Tenebrous depths, is it possible to dodge/mitigate unholy damage? Or is it all about bursting down the boss before he can do much?
Death ward does nothing. Spreading out helps, I guess... the distance between Jaethal and Ekun on this pic was obviously not enough, but others didn't get hit.

Spoiler

Btw. the fight is a lot harder without Obliteration/Tyrant.
I guess if everything else fails there is always hellfire ray + grandmaster rod.

Here Jaethal is taking damage. Maybe Darko could tell us what her alignment was.

 

[Darko]

Here Jaethal is taking damage. Maybe Darko could tell us what her alignment was.

She was NE, so alignment or being undead indeed does nothing to prevent unholy damage.

Distract usually with summons. Disable via various Stuns/CMs that don't care about AC, although 55 is far from insurmountable if you do want to alpha strike him. That's what I've done on that fight.

I no longer have the save to check but is he not immune to stuns? Not sure how useful summons are, all they seemed do is help chain the unholy damage; although with some luck they will get targeted by dominate instead of party members.

One thing that proved useful were spells with temporary hitpoints such as greater false life, aid, burst of glory. Switch rings of circumstance to CON. This allows chars to not get one-shotted and makes it possible to heal them up.
In both screenshots chars who succeeded on saving trows still took full unholy damage. What's the point of the saving throw then?
Also, spreading out is hard when you are under legendary proportions.

Spoiler

 

[Xamenos]

although with some luck they will get targeted by dominate instead of party members.

Wasn't it Confusion? Regardless, Holy Aura makes your party immune.

 

[Desiderius]

The example you highlighted of 94 unholy damage Jaethal didn't take. He took three packets, with the Unholy being the big one. She took only two.

Likewise with the damage to Octavia (Good) vs MC (I'm assuming your MC isn't Good since I'm the only one who plays Good MCs).

 

[Desiderius]

although with some luck they will get targeted by dominate instead of party members.

Wasn't it Confusion? Regardless, Holy Aura makes your party immune.

Depths is in your kingdom. You should already have immunity from Compulsion. But his ability bypasses immunity if you let it go off.

 

[Darko]

although with some luck they will get targeted by dominate instead of party members.

Wasn't it Confusion? Regardless, Holy Aura makes your party immune.

It's dominate, confusion, rage and maybe something else? Holy aura helps with some of them but not all. In fact, nothing does: being undead, kingdom research, items.
In second screenshot you can see Jaethal nuking Jub.

The example you highlighted of 94 unholy damage Jaethal didn't take. He took three packets, with the Unholy being the big one. She took only two.

Check the second screenshot in my previous post.

 

[Desiderius]

The one where he does 114 to Jaethal? Is that Unholy damage? Something's weird there. Maybe she got hit by the Holy Bomb. Nice job with the Holy Bombs BTW. Underrated.

 

[Desiderius]

Not sure but there may not be anything immune to stun. Even Hargulka with Freedom of Movement. Has something to do with Deafen not being in game.

 

[Daidre]

Well, for me more exciting question is: what unfair means are required to reliably beat early unfair? Is Sylvan Sorcerer as MC enough? Or is it necessary to hire the whole InEffect's gang of goons?

I do not think there is any strategy to reliably counter 70+ HP crits from enemy archers on low level Unfair. And all of them shoot at least twice per round too, so there is like 20% chances of insta death in the first battle at Oleg's with two archers, each round, if they target MC. So chances to properly Iron Man Unfair are close to nil, imho.

 

[Darko]

The one where he does 114 to Jaethal? Is that Unholy damage? Something's weird there. Maybe she got hit by the Holy Bomb. Nice job with the Holy Bombs BTW. Underrated.

Nah, it says that Spawn deals 114 dmg to her, not Jub. It was unholy damage.

Btw. I dug out a save from other playthrough and you're right, he is not stun immune. But what ability do you use to stun something with 32 fortitude and 70 CMD?

 

[Xamenos]

You should already have immunity from Compulsion. But his ability bypasses immunity if you let it go off.

It's dominate, confusion, rage and maybe something else? Holy aura helps with some of them but not all. In fact, nothing does: being undead, kingdom research, items.

Really? I didn't have the Kingdom upgrade the first time I fought it, and I remember Holy Aura protecting my party until it got dispelled.

 

[Pink Eye]

Well, for me more exciting question is: what unfair means are required to reliably beat early unfair? Is Sylvan Sorcerer as MC enough? Or is it necessary to hire the whole InEffect's gang of goons?

I do not think there is any strategy to reliably counter 70+ HP crits from enemy archers on low level Unfair. And all of them shoot at least twice per round too, so there is like 20% chances of insta death in the first battle at Oleg's with two archers, each round, if they target MC. So chances to properly Iron Man Unfair are close to nil, imho.

That's why monk is the best class. You get Deflect Arrows at level 1 or 2. You get the archers to focus you first. Let the melee bandits rush Oleg. Then have your melee units charge the archers down. It's possible.

 

[Technomancer]

I dug out a save from other playthrough

"Immune to Petrify" lol. Can you even cast anything that petrifies?

 

[Darko]

Really? I didn't have the Kingdom upgrade the first time I fought it, and I remember Holy Aura protecting my party until it got dispelled.

I think the ones that Holy aura doesn't protect from have short duration, like 1 round. They might also not show on character screen under Effects but the char will still be attacking your party members.
Dispel is not an issue with 30+ trash buffs.

 

[Pink Eye]

You can also alternatively have the archers focus Oleg. Then you flank the archers and charge them.

 

[Xamenos]

Really? I didn't have the Kingdom upgrade the first time I fought it, and I remember Holy Aura protecting my party until it got dispelled.

I think the ones that Holy aura doesn't protect from have short duration, like 1 round. They might also not show on character screen under Effects but the char will still be attacking your party members.
Dispel is not an issue with 30+ trash buffs.

Well, it's been more than a year since I last fought it so I might have forgotten things. I'll have to try again

And trash buffs shouldn't help you against dispel. At least in tabletop, it goes highest -> lowest when comparing the roll against buffs. Holy Aura is near the top of the list. Unless the Russians changed the implementation here too?