Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

In the last fight of Tenebrous depths, is it possible to dodge/mitigate unholy damage? Or is it all about bursting down the boss before he can do much?
Death ward does nothing. Spreading out helps, I guess... the distance between Jaethal and Ekun on this pic was obviously not enough, but others didn't get hit.

Why aren't you using Jewb's bombs?

 

[Darko]

Why aren't you using Jewb's bombs?

Spent them all while clearing Depths level 6-16 without rest :D
Just waltzed in to see what it's like on unfair, got stumped after seeing that unholy damage. Was wondering if there's a buff against it that I'm forgetting or something.

Spawn has pitiful fortitude saves, even on Unfair. See my monk stunning him to death with stunning fists:
Even then, you can spam plague storm and he will die.

Fortitude is actually his strongest save, at 32‚, reflex weakest at 23. How come he didn't spawn a single summon in your video?
My Ekun has imp evasion as ranger but still takes 90 damage in screenshot while you take 50ish?

Do you have a paladin and/or magus in your party? Smite Evil/Arcane Accuracy/Dimensional Strike should allow you to reliably hit the Spawn. Evasion (from Monk or Rogue) can block half of the unholy damage if you have good saves. Otherwise the fight is a simple DPR check. You should also dispel the Spawn's True Seeing at the beginning of the fight and slice him up with Sneak Attacks.

So it's as simple as bursting him down before he nukes the party? I guess it was naive to expect anything else, that's typically how boss fights work in Kingmaker.

 

[Desiderius]

So it's as simple as bursting him down before he nukes the party? I guess it was naive to expect anything else, that's typically how boss fights work in Kingmaker.

No, your three options usually are:

(1) damage
(2) disable
(3) distract

You can't choose none of the above and expect to facetank the hardest mobs in the game for several rounds nor should you be able to.

 

[Darko]

You can't choose none of the above and expect to facetank the hardest mobs in the game for several rounds nor should you be able to.

No other enemy in the game does so much seemingly unavoidable aoe damage. Anyway, spreading out a bit more did the trick.

 

[Desiderius]

You can't choose none of the above and expect to facetank the hardest mobs in the game for several rounds nor should you be able to.

No other enemy in the game does so much seemingly unavoidable aoe damage. Anyway, spreading out a bit more did the trick.

 

[Darko]

Not really the same thing. You can bait him to cast wail on a high fortitude companion or Jaethal who is immune. Spawn's ability targets a random char and follows it. Farnirras also doesn't have 1600 HP and 55 AC.
Still my statement was wrong, there are other bullshit enemies like skillfully crafted gold golem who spams prismatic spray every turn. I just sigh and alpha strike it with hellfire ray or disintegrate. Do you think that giving player no tools to counter enemy abilities other than "burst down quickly or eat shit" is good encounter design? I can do it if there's no other way but it's hardly fun. Fortunately such encounters are minority.

 

[Sykar]

Spawn has pitiful fortitude saves, even on Unfair. See my monk stunning him to death with stunning fists:


Even then, you can spam plague storm and he will die.

Not to rain on your parade but it was clearly Hard difficulty in that video. Still fun to watch though.

 

[Sykar]

Question is Vital Strike maybe useful on Warpriest Harrim tank? If I understand that right I could attack once and cast a spell once in a round, right?

 

[Xamenos]

So it's as simple as bursting him down before he nukes the party? I guess it was naive to expect anything else, that's typically how boss fights work in Kingmaker.

No, your three options usually are:

(1) damage
(2) disable
(3) distract

You can't choose none of the above and expect to facetank the hardest mobs in the game for several rounds nor should you be able to.

(4) Outheal.

I had Tristian spamming Mass Heals for this fight. Gave me quite a few turns. Of course, the correct answer is (5) All of the above. I'm sure you already know that, just clarifying for the retarded among us.

edit: Actually, might have been Mass Cure Criticals. I genuinely can't remember. Still, it was enough.

You can't choose none of the above and expect to facetank the hardest mobs in the game for several rounds nor should you be able to.

No other enemy in the game does so much seemingly unavoidable aoe damage. Anyway, spreading out a bit more did the trick.

I hope to god next time you try playing intelligently BEFORE you come here to cry about the game's supposedly bad design.

 

[Pink Eye]

Spawn has pitiful fortitude saves, even on Unfair. See my monk stunning him to death with stunning fists:


Even then, you can spam plague storm and he will die.

Not to rain on your parade but it was clearly Hard difficulty in that video. Still fun to watch though.

Yeah. But if you cast plague storm, he dies too. I am planning on beating him on my youtube playthrough thingy. So I will show you all what I mean.

 

[Desiderius]

Not really the same thing. You can bait him to cast wail on a high fortitude companion or Jaethal who is immune. Spawn's ability targets a random char and follows it. Farnirras also doesn't have 1600 HP and 55 AC.
Still my statement was wrong, there are other bullshit enemies like skillfully crafted gold golem who spams prismatic spray every turn. I just sigh and alpha strike it with hellfire ray or disintegrate. Do you think that giving player no tools to counter enemy abilities other than "burst down quickly or eat shit" is good encounter design? I can do it if there's no other way but it's hardly fun. Fortunately such encounters are minority.

No other way except for the three I already pointed out to you? Instructive that you consider AC and HP to be the only relevant dimensions to cite. There are fights that thwart every one-dimensional approach, including the ameliorative corner you've evidently painted yourself into.

That's good design, not bad.

If one considers alpha strikes distasteful, and depending on the difficulty involved in pulling them off I'd join you, then you can just avoid that approach. There are others. Probably don't involve Sword Saint crits for 62 whole HP or ploinking for 12 a hit on your Alchemist though, nor should they.

 

[Desiderius]

Question is Vital Strike maybe useful on Warpriest Harrim tank? If I understand that right I could attack once and cast a spell once in a round, right?

Vital Strike works well with the Sacred Weapon ability since it makes your dice bigger. The fervent buff thing I haven't found to be that great since you can usually just cast pre-combat but in a pinch that is a thing you can do. Unfortunately CotW Harrim doesn't come with True Strike which would work well with this approach unlike vanilla Harrim.

 

[Desiderius]

Question is Vital Strike maybe useful on Warpriest Harrim tank? If I understand that right I could attack once and cast a spell once in a round, right?

Vital Strike works well with the Sacred Weapon ability since it makes your dice bigger. The fervent buff thing I haven't found to be that great since you can usually just cast pre-combat but in a pinch that is a thing you can do. Unfortunately CotW Harrim doesn't come with True Strike which would work well with this approach unlike vanilla Harrim.

Best thing about Vital Strike is that you can move and hit in the same turn now that VS is a Standard Action, which can be an issue for Harrim with his short legs. Also lets you get all your dice in at full BAB.

 

[Darko]

No other way except for the three I already pointed out to you? Instructive that you consider AC and HP to be the only relevant dimensions to cite. There are fights that thwart every one-dimensional approach, including the ameliorative corner you've evidently painted yourself into.

That's good design, not bad.

If one considers alpha strikes distasteful, and depending on the difficulty involved in pulling them off I'd join you, then you can just avoid that approach. There are others. Probably don't involve Sword Saint crits for 62 whole HP or ploinking for 12 a hit on your Alchemist though, nor should they.

My original intention was to learn about the fight mechanic, not to complain; could've worded the following posts better. Is it not reasonable to ask WTF when seemingly nothing stops the incoming damage? So how are you supposed to disable or distract the Spawn?

Picking on my party's damage is unnecessary, everyone was autoattacking and the screenshot was just to show Spawn's attack.

 

[Pink Eye]

I found this on the official Owlcat Games youtube channel!

 

[Pink Eye]

Technomancer What! If you think that's wacky! You should see my super high energy extreme monk video!

 

[Technomancer]

What!

I just expected high-quality meme, not some garbage that someone at owlcat made in a minute to laugh at the office. You ever heard radio free zerg? Someone put real effort to make a memorable easter egg-like that, I hoped for something similar.

You should see my super high energy extreme monk video!

Anything in particular I am supposed to see aside from bad taste in music?

 

[Pink Eye]

>Anything in particular I am supposed to see aside from bad taste in music?
My monk blowing enemies away with his awesome damage! Look and become in awe as you witness the full power of monks in the early game!

 

[Technomancer]

My monk blowing enemies away with his awesome damage! Look and become in awe as you witness the full power of monks in the early game!

I don't get the fascination with monks, nuking stuff to oblivion is more of my thing. Although I am considering to build Val as a monk. No idea what to do with her though.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I don't get the fascination with monks

If you watch Pink Eye videos you'd understand that he basically challenges himself with monks. His monk cannot reliably tank, and he hits about 1/4 of the enemies only on natural 20's. Morevoer, there is noticeable deficit of casters, so every trip to Oleg's looks like an alcoholic walking into a liquor store.

Granted, he has 2 attacks even on level 3, may be even more. So the number of attempts to roll that 20 is impressive.

 

[Cryomancer]

Anyone who played as a lich on alpha, did you had reanimated a single boss to serve you?

 

[amurath]

I don't get the fascination with monks

If you watch Pink Eye videos you'd understand that he basically challenges himself with monks. His monk cannot reliably tank, and he hits about 1/4 of the enemies only on natural 20's. Morevoer, there is noticeable deficit of casters, so every trip to Oleg's looks like an alcoholic walking into a liquor store.

Granted, he has 2 attacks even on level 3, may be even more. So the number of attempts to roll that 20 is impressive.

Yeah, if there is a criticism of his playstyle it's that he relies too much on consumables and too little on casters, at least in the beginning of the game. I still can't believe he turned Linzi into a fighter.

 

[Desiderius]

So how are you supposed to disable or distract the Spawn?

Distract usually with summons. Disable via various Stuns/CMs that don't care about AC, although 55 is far from insurmountable if you do want to alpha strike him. That's what I've done on that fight.

 

[Desiderius]

I don't get the fascination with monks

If you watch Pink Eye videos you'd understand that he basically challenges himself with monks. His monk cannot reliably tank, and he hits about 1/4 of the enemies only on natural 20's. Morevoer, there is noticeable deficit of casters, so every trip to Oleg's looks like an alcoholic walking into a liquor store.

Granted, he has 2 attacks even on level 3, may be even more. So the number of attempts to roll that 20 is impressive.

Yeah, if there is a criticism of his playstyle it's that he relies too much on consumables and too little on casters, at least in the beginning of the game. I still can't believe he turned Linzi into a fighter.

Obv Bard OP, but if you're not going Bard might as well take advantage of her race by putting her in melee.

 

[Pink Eye]

Old Sycamore beat my butt hard, I'll give you that. Damned place ruined my no reload challenge. But I am telling you, it gets better once I get more levels under my belt. Just be patient. Early Unfair is like that.