Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

So, as far as I can see, there is going to be no tanking for a while. My question to Unfair players is at what point in the game (ie, what level) does tanking become viable on Unfair for fully devoted tanks? Not talking about mirror images and summons here, I am talking about straightup AC for TSS, Aldori Defenders, Sword Saints etc.

The problem on unfair will always be critical hits. You can max your AC, CC the mobs, buff the shit out of your party but you will still get the random 250 pt critical that will end your day.

No, you can get around that too*, but that's another level and you're not ironmanning the first five levels or anything. The last ten should be doable for anyone interested in it.

* - a simple way is to play classes like Chirurgeon and Ranger that have rezzes over those that don't. Rez doesn't have to be reload.

 

[Trashos]

The problem on unfair will always be critical hits. You can max your AC, CC the mobs, buff the shit out of your party but you will still get the random 250 pt critical that will end your day.

I am kinda planning to overcome this by using a combination of Jaethal, Okbo and Linzi as tanks. Fabulously optimistic etc-etc. Main is going to be some sort of wizard (I am considering Arcane Bomber, actually, despite the lack of precise bombs), so hopefully he is going to stay out of it.

Desiderius, are you talking about Breath of Life? Interesting, I have never used it.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

Desiderius need your advice here. One trait for a Mystic Theurge is a no-brainer - Magical Knack. Which one would you recommend as the second?

 

[Efe]

how come you never used breath?
what do you do one a character falls? reload? or burn a raise dead every death?

 

[Trashos]

I do not have companion deaths on Hard (after early lvl2 anyway). My tanks are Jaethal and Okbo. Maybe I burn 1 resurrection scroll per playthrough.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius need your advice here. One trait for a Mystic Theurge is a no-brainer - Magical Knack. Which one would you recommend as the second?

I haven't played with the caster ones that much. Knack gets you half way there on Caster Level. Probably something good in the Metamagic since you'll be building toward the Feat that unlocks with three Metamagics. I've taken the one that gives you Perception +1 and Class Skill or the Irori Religious one that lets you take WIS to a DEX/STR skill (like Trickery) but I'm not convinced that MT is all that for Depths since you get so much rest.

Can always fall back on +2 Initiative. Initiative is always good on a caster.

 

[LannTheStupid]

So it is impossible to acquire both companions who cannot die right after the prologue. So for eating crits on Unfair one needs to rely on either Linzi or Jaethal at least until the Ancient Tomb.

Hmmm...

What can be done with Amiri before the first fight at Oleg's to increase her Unfair survivability?

 

[Desiderius]

So it is impossible to acquire both companions who cannot die right after the prologue. So for eating crits on Unfair one needs to rely on either Linzi or Jaethal at least until the Ancient Tomb.

Hmmm...

What can be done with Amiri before the first fight at Oleg's to increase her Unfair survivability?

Give her a pet. Or kill shit before it kills you.

Guarded Stance + Animal Totem ends up doing good work but you’re not seeing much by lvl 2. Most important thing is to give her Freebooter’s Bane to hold her up first round of combat.

 

[Trashos]

So it is impossible to acquire both companions who cannot die right after the prologue. So for eating crits on Unfair one needs to rely on either Linzi or Jaethal at least until the Ancient Tomb.

At Oleg's I only send Jaethal forward even on Hard, because Bokken destroys enemies and allies alike with his bombs. Everyone else stays behind with bows and spells.

My Unfair plan for Amiri/Reggie is using reach weapon forever. Oleg sells both Glaives and Longspears. In some messy fights (eg against numerous worgs) they may have to stay at range with bows/spells. I am going to be using Reggie from Ch2 on, but if I were to use Amiri I 'd get her the mirror image belt from Tirval, and I would use a STR ring for STR (eg Mim can provide one) instead of a belt. After Pitax Amiri will wear Talwyn's armor, which has 50% to negate critical hits.

Lots of Improved Invisibilities for either of them. I want enemies to focus on the unkillable tanks.

 

[Desiderius]

Lol you’re such a theorycrafter. Tirval doesn’t even show up until you no longer really need that belt, and the chances of it showing up at all are not high. I’ve seen it once. And it’s a pain in the ass to use.

Tanking with Jae is your usual belt and suspenders, nose to spite your face approach. Yeah she can’t die but your other toons that can actually get Image don’t die very often either and she gets hit more and is a pain to heal.

Just make your three melee toons (and pet) as tough as you can and light things up from range while using all the anti-crit and extra HP abilities. There really are very few mobs who can one shot you and you have tools to debuff them into oblivion.

 

[The_Mask]

Tanking with Jae is your usual belt and suspenders, nose to spite your face approach. Yeah she can’t die but your other toons that can actually get Image don’t die very often either and she gets hit more and is a pain to heal.

You can make Jae a Feyspeaker and she can get Image just fine. And she's not that hard to heal, if you really give it your best.

 

[Trashos]

Lol you’re such a theorycrafter.

It is called pre-planning! What am I supposed to do instead, pray?

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Nerevar]

Looks like Vivisectionists are getting a buff.

Spoiler

 

[Desiderius]

Lol you’re such a theorycrafter.

It is called pre-planning! What am I supposed to do instead, pray?

Test your theories.

 

[Desiderius]

Looks like Vivisectionists are getting a buff.

Spoiler

They have no one who understands the game at anything like Haplo's level. That's why the bugfixes took so long.

 

[Trashos]

Test your theories.

I will!
(not with Amiri though, I do not use her after Ch1)

 

[Desiderius]

Tanking with Jae is your usual belt and suspenders, nose to spite your face approach. Yeah she can’t die but your other toons that can actually get Image don’t die very often either and she gets hit more and is a pain to heal.

You can make Jae a Feyspeaker and she can get Image just fine. And she's not that hard to heal, if you really give it your best.

If you make her anything other than a tank. Tank's a pain.

Cleric gives you spontaneous Inflict (which is a touch attack that bypasses SR too, BTW), Inquisitor you just take it as a spell pick each level, Feyspeaker has Image (but they've also added True Seeing to some of the hardest foes so be ready to Dispel, Greater that), but TSS you're taking some nat 20s without an easy way to heal yourself.

Jaethal solves the wrong issue. You're trying not to wipe on Unfair so you can Ironman it she's not helping you, she's just saving you some post fight rezzes.

 

[Nerevar]

They have no one who understands the game at anything like Haplo's level. That's why the bugfixes took so long.

Why don't they just hire him as a consultant?

 

[LannTheStupid]

There really are very few mobs who can one shot you and you have tools to debuff them into oblivion.

Erm... with 4x crit damage modifier (which is 2x for default crits and 2x for Unfair) everything that rolls Nat 20 and then confirms the crit one shots you. Especially at low levels.

(not with Amiri though, I do not use her after Ch1)

Really? Even for the whole 2 chapters filled with barbarians? With whom she has natural understanding and ability to communicate?

OK... I guess...

 

[Trashos]

Really? Even for the whole 2 chapters filled with barbarians? With whom she has natural understanding and ability to communicate?

I have taken her in those places before to see what happens, not willing to mess up my party anymore. I do take Linzi for Pitax and Tristian for V's Tomb even when they are not in my core party, but otherwise I avoid messing up my core. I do not like Amiri in general. I prefer having Reggie with me.

 

[Desiderius]

Yes, even with 4x if you're using False Life, Aid, Inspire Greatness, Burst of Glory, Stoneskin and the like as well as the usual debuffs. Of course the king is Mirror Image, Difficult Terrain, and Summons to avoid getting hit at all. Obv doesn't apply at lowest levels and Trobold has a lot of heavy hitters if you let them get a swing at you.

Somehow BooterBarb Amiri with Cleave, Pounce, Carnage, and giving everyone +8 to hit ended up being my most dominant toon. She's still kind of a dork. On playthroughs where she's not a Freebooter I don't bring her along that often, usually just for Armag chapter.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Difficult terrain is sneaky good. No save, bros. That’s right.

It gets even better in CotW. Use rime metamagic with an ice storm. Now they are entangled and on difficult terrain.

But difficult terrain is still severely underrated for non-modded, imo.

edit: stone rain is a second level spell, to boot

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Desiderius need your advice here. One trait for a Mystic Theurge is a no-brainer - Magical Knack. Which one would you recommend as the second?

I have been using Magical Lineage and the regional trait (Wayang Wayfarer?) on my *takes a deep breath* School Savant (Admixture) Arcanist and Winter Witch blasters. They each let you choose a level 3 or lower spell and reduce the cost of metamagic by 1 level, and they stack. So free persistent fireballs and I can save the big stuff like dazing, quickened, maximized etc for my 1 rod application. It’s worked really well (and is very fun).

I haven’t played a mystic theurge with the (much needed) spell synthesis stuff from COTW, but I agree that taking Magical Knack is a no-brained. Maybe Wayang Wayfarer and then make either intensified Fireballs/Burning Arc or Toppling Magic Missles freebies?

 

[Mark Richard]

Finished the first chapter once again. Turn-based mode has significantly changed my experience. I find myself using a greater range of items and abilities rather than lazily brute-forcing encounters, and am better able to assess the strengths and weaknesses of party members or enemies by looking at the feedback. Could've done all of this in real-time mode of course, but when the data is buried beneath simultaneous turns and the magical effects have transformed the screen into an animated mess of rainbow vomit, I'm a tad discouraged from doing so.