Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[LannTheStupid]

I am finding the mansion manageable, but not ironmanable without considerable luck.

So your DC Illusionist, Linzi and Tartuccio together do not have enough tools to CC them? Hmmm...

Also, if there is an NPC ally in a fight it is suggested that the party sneaks and do not intervene. Allied NPC's have the same Unfair bonuses as the enemies, so they kill each other more efficiently. The party, obviously, does not have those bonuses.

 

[Trashos]

With 100% success rate or something close? No, they don't. Take the library fight, for example, 1 melee and 2 bowmen assassins (who can sneak attack for 35 dmg! That's more than the sum of the HP in my party!). I do not think that there is a fullproof way to win it.
(Despite being an Illusionist, at this point in the game I have invested only in Enchantment, btw. I invest in Illusion just before lvl4 spells.)

Yes, I will make use of the allies. The hardest fights are the library and the one after seeing Amiri (especially if I have unloaded all my spells in the library).

dont torture yourself for no reason

I am hoping that I will ironman it from some lvl on! Probably not in this first effort, but eventually. I have already taken a lot of steps to improve my skill checks, that I kept reloading on Hard.

 

[LannTheStupid]

 

[The_Mask]

 

[Trashos]

LOL, first try at Unfair Ancient Temple, and my whole party (+Jaethal, who was waiting to be picked up) was decimated within 2 rounds. It was one kill per attack.

 

[Trashos]

Where these kobold "Veterans" always in Sycamore or are they a recent addition? I just noticed them for the first time.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Just beat this last night. I did not finish my first game (CN AT) due to mobo death and Linux migration when I rebuilt. This run was as a LG warrior, which was far better suited to the game than a mischevious mage/thief.

I don't know how it was originally, having only played the EE (+all DLC), but the tears over HATEOT are unwarranted. I did the whole thing and Nyrissa without resting. Mind you, I skipped out on half the combat by using my latern prudently. After I beat it and looked at some guides, I wish I hadn't skipped out on the mirrors. It would have helped me with the Wriggling Man. That fight had started to get a bit out of hand. Everything else was no problem though, even if not without mistakes. I had to play smart because the stakes were high and frequent, but that's what a final dungeon should be. Ultimately, I had literally spent millions on high level scrolls for my band of demigods. Nothing short of a TPK was going to stop me. My party hit level 19 in HaTEOT. If I had milked it, I might have been able to get to 20 before the BBEG.

The end was cool.

Spoiler

I originally let Nyrissa go after redeeming her, and the credits rolled. Everyone was happy. Then I reloaded and allied with her, which gave me a whole new chapter! It all felt very epic and momentus.

I had a bug on the final fight where the rest of my party was blown outside the boundaries of the map. Regardless, MC and his ally trashed the end boss. Pretty cool. The loot is so crazy OP in this game that I was immune to most of his attacks. The ending was very satisfying. Overall, this game is most certainly the heir to Baldur's Gate. While there are some things BGs do better, PF:KM is overall is a objectively better game--though credit is due to its 20-22 year old inspiration. What a fantastic experience. Its in my top 3 all time CRPGs, easily.

 

[The Decline]

I just finished the game myself. Fucking great game. I'm glad I was able to play it after all the patches and added content.

 

[Trashos]

A few notes for latest version of game (2.1.5d):

- Seems to be more stable (in comparison to 2.0.8 that I used to run) in early game, we will see how it goes later.

- A few minor improvements in the UI. Greatly appreciated, shows developers care deeply about their "baby".

- Turn based button probably needs a way to be hidden. I do not care about it, and it is the biggest button in my button section.

- "Opt out Unity Analytics"?! I appreciate the option, but why not start "Out" and give "Opt in" option instead?

- I am still having trouble with the Clerics' hotbar. When I make major changes in spells, craziness may ensue. Eg, I have Energy Channeling and Touch of Law in the hotbar, and after spell changes they *may* disappear from the hotbar. This used to happen in 2.0.8 as well. Happens to both Harrim and mercenary clerics.

 

[NJClaw]

A few minor improvements in the UI. Greatly appreciated, shows developers care deeply about their "baby".

Why wouldn't you care about your baby, when it literally is the best traditional CRPG in the last two decades?

 

[RNGsus]

Any good respec ideas for Jaethal or Tristan?

 

[Trashos]

Jaethal makes a great tank, if you do not mind the difficulty in healing her. A few ideas:
- Inq3/TSS17 (progression: Inq1-TSS9-Inq3-TSS17)
- Inq14/TSS6 (Inq1-TSS6-Inq14)
- Inq18/Fighter2 (Inq1-F2-Inq18)

Frontload AC feats (Dodge, Heavy Armor Focus, Shield Focus, Combat Expertise)

 

[Xamenos]

- Inq3/TSS17 (progression: Inq1-TSS9-Inq3-TSS17)

Any particular reason you're recommending TSS17 instead of a mix like TSS10 - Stalwart Defender 7 or TSS7-SD10?

 

[Trashos]

The gist of it is that I am keeping it as simple as possible, unless another option gives me something I really need. I tried taking Stalwart Defender levels a few times. Up to Hard, at least, it did not offer me anything I really needed. I 'd rather have the Inquisitor spells, for example, or the few goodies that come with TSS (higher DEX to AC bonus etc).

For Unfair, I am not far enough to have an opinion.

But indeed Stalwart Defender is an option one can look into for the tank build.

 

[Yosharian]

One of the advantages of Stalwart Defender is that you give Jaethal chunks of temporary hitpoints every time you activate Defensive Stance, and you can do this repeatedly. Since she can't be healed through normal means, this is particularly useful.

 

[hell bovine]

Just beat this last night. I did not finish my first game (CN AT) due to mobo death and Linux migration when I rebuilt. This run was as a LG warrior, which was far better suited to the game than a mischevious mage/thief.

I don't know how it was originally, having only played the EE (+all DLC), but the tears over HATEOT are unwarranted.

From what I recall from that patching frenzy, wild hunt got nerfed at some point.

 

[vazha]

So, about to try the turn based mode. A couple of questions:
1. What are some of the unorthodox, but not gimped builds that the turn based mode has introduced?
2. I remember in original game, in act 5 or 6 there were these waves and waves of enemy hordes (the elf lookalike thingies, wild hunt something), that made the game unplayable for me due to how tedious it was. Has this been adressed?
3. Are the dlc's worth it?

thank you.

 

[Mexi]

LOL, first try at Unfair Ancient Temple, and my whole party (+Jaethal, who was waiting to be picked up) was decimated within 2 rounds. It was one kill per attack.

Try to get Harrim on your side. Jaethal gets fucking wrecked too fast. Harrim is in a better position to guard your right flank, which allows for Linzi to not getting decapitated fast. This battle really depends on how well Harrim can survive on the right and if Amiri can quickly kill the dude that takes the growth potion fast enough.

 

[Trashos]

Mexi, my current plan involves a Lawful Good mercenary Cleric, to help me address my skill check issues with Touch of Law and Touch of Good. So it is Harrim that I do not take.
Valerie can last a bit longer (than Harrim too) against the brute, but now I necessarily pick up Val early, since I am leaving Harrim out.

That said, I do not have a decent plan for Unfair Ancient Temple yet (this playthrough I got through it by eventually getting very good rolls), and I am very open to ideas. On Hard I used to kill the rogue with Amiri, and dazed the brute with my MC. It is an interesting idea to try to kill the brute before enlarging, I am going to try it next time.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I am contemplating another run, this time as a villain. I'd like to see how many evil advisors I can get get and try ruling as a despot rather than as benevolent philosopher king. I've done a wizard and a warrior, so now I'm thinking some kind of gish. The parties of my two games were quite different, so there really isn't any class I haven't played outside of Druid or Monk. I'm considering a melee blight druid, but I'm not very impressed with the divine spell list. Choices, choices.

 

[Trashos]

Another change I am noticing: Enemies are likely now to continue attacking a downed companion until he is completely dead. Even lowly opponents may do that, like centipedes.

I didn't know whether this was due to playing Unfair or playing a newer version of the game, so I reloaded a region on Hard, and it is still happening. So it is *probably* a change in the latest versions.

I am not on board with this change. It does not make sense for the opponents to do that, and, frankly, it is BS.

 

[Mexi]

Mexi, my current plan involves a Lawful Good mercenary Cleric, to help me address my skill check issues with Touch of Law and Touch of Good. So it is Harrim that I do not take.
Valerie can last a bit longer (than Harrim too) against the brute, but now I necessarily pick up Val early, since I am leaving Harrim out.

That said, I do not have a decent plan for Unfair Ancient Temple yet (this playthrough I got through it by eventually getting very good rolls), and I am very open to ideas. On Hard I used to kill the rogue with Amiri, and dazed the brute with my MC. It is an interesting idea to try to kill the brute before enlarging, I am going to try it next time.

You have it easier than me since you're using mercenaries, BUT you can't have Harrim so it's also much harder since he's so well positioned. I refused to use them, hence why I had to go with Harrim.

Who does your party consists of, including your main character? If your main character is a mage, this makes it a big more difficult because my run had my main (paladin), Linzi, Amiri, Valerie, and Harrim joins. This is how I beat it. I had Valerie charge the frontline fighter that gets that growth cast on him. Amiri takes a growth potion and charges him. If she one-shots him, this goes so much easier. If she doesn't, she might be able to take him in 2 to 3 hits. While Valerie is tanking his hits, Amiri is behind attacking from a long distance. My main character charges the mage to keep him busy and hopefully kill him before he casts anything else. Harrim is tanking the right for Linzi. Linzi is casting confusion or some of her CC spells, IIRC. I forgot her arsenal, but she's doing some stuff in the background. Amiri is pretty much my crux, though. She's the one that wins the battle for me since she can kill the giant, kill the mage, and kill the little midget. Valerie tanks and my paladin just goes to distract the mage and the archer. Harrim's only aid is the fact that he can tank the guy on the right. If Harrim dies, it's over since Linzi gets one-shotted and my party gets surrounded.

 

[LannTheStupid]

That's the dilemma of all A.I. developers: if it is too weak players shit on it; but if it becomes good players can't overcome it and start raging on forums.

 

[NJClaw]

It does not make sense for the opponents to do that

Are you saying that it doesn't make sense for your enemies to kill their enemies?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

It does not make sense for the opponents to do that

Are you saying that it doesn't make sense for your enemies to kill their enemies?

Trashos must be Canadian.