Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[rusty_shackleford]

Reminder that Drizzt is a 5'4 manlet

 

[ArchAngel]

It's called Skyrim Syndrome. Modern gamers want to SEE ENEMY - KILL ENEMY - NO THOUGHT NEEDED. It's pretty sad and steep decline, too. Handmade, non-level scaled worlds often add tough encounters off the beaten path that you will A) die to, then hopefully B) realize you need to come back later. It's fairly simple. Any talk of the "DM got it wrong" is steep, STEEP decline. Sad.

Bugmaker doesn't allow for being able to flee or retreat. You get caught in an overlevelled random encounter, you are basically dead with no recourse.

Actually you can retreat, just not during combat. You need to get away from enemies so they decide to not fight you anymore or make your whole team go invisible. Then you can exit map like normal. And this is probably a more realistic way than how IE games did it where edge of map was a magical "I am safe" area.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Well, yes you actually have to retreat from combat at one point. Or at least it's in your best interest to for most people. It's when

Spoiler

The nymph whore betrays you and summons a rape welcoming committee on your ass. Hope you got good athletics.

 

[Funposter]

Well, yes you actually have to retreat from combat at one point. Or at least it's in your best interest to for most people. It's when

Spoiler

The nymph whore betrays you and summons a rape welcoming committee on your ass. Hope you got good athletics.

Reminder that the journal literally yells at you "BRING INVISIBILITY POTIONS"

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I just killed everything because bow fighter is the best

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Reminder that the journal literally yells at you "BRING INVISIBILITY POTIONS"

And you can exit that area without passing any difficult skill checks.

 

[Cael]

Son, you obviously haven't been following the discussion

Mate, you might be the one that hasn't been following. Your complaint is legitimate, and fair play to you, but the past page and a half has been about the goddamned wererats. Literally 2 posts above yours that I quoted, the guy who started this came back to bitch again about the fucking rats. This is what pisses me off. He didn't come to talk about said legitimate problem, he just wanted to bitch about an optional fight that he couldn't win. This kind of shit got us Oblivion.

Wererats with unlimited (or close enough; I consider a level 3 PC having enough bombs to kill an entire party with some left over to be infinite enough to not matter, not to mention the Wealth by Level table) bombs is bad encounter design. As I said, I don't mind running into an encounter you are not supposed to defeat until much later. That is why I like Fallout 2. Run towards Navarro or San Fran straight out of Aroyo and you are taking your own life into your own hands. So, the question is, were you directed to another place away from the area? Or is it in the general area of where you are supposed to go and you can stumble onto it accidentally resulting in "Oh snap, you dead!"?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

You are earning your name tag with these posts man, no offense. Just stop posting about it, seriously.

 

[Cael]

Bugmaker doesn't allow for being able to flee or retreat. You get caught in an overlevelled random encounter, you are basically dead with no recourse.

So? Do you rather an Oblivion scaled world where every encounter you have is easily defeatable at every level? That's stupid. There should be some tough ones sprinkled in that yes, you die to, make a note of and come back later and wipe them out. Simple. That is called a CRPG, or computer roleplaying game. Classic CRPG design. Gamers just get mad that they die and in essence want every encounter level scaled to be appropriate at all times. Fuck out of here with that nonsense, seriously.

Son, I have been playing cGRP since U4 first came out, and I solved Magic Candle without the Internet (because it didn't exist yet). Magic Candle, where ogres have 5 times your maximum possible HP and kill you in two shots tops when you do get maximum HP, where you chug mushrooms and weed just to survive fights.

I have yet to encounter a game like Bugmaker, where they lazily stat bloat things to hell, throw things in as a gotcha, and have a bunch of fanbois glued to their ass mouthing how good getting ass-raped is. Compared to Magic Candle, Bugmaker is as easy as a 2 bit whore needing her meth fix. Its implimentation of mechanics (sneak attack, stat bloat, Monty Haul, Wesley NPCs, etc.) is fucking decline.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

you can just admit you suck at the game, nobody will judge you

 

[Cael]

you can just admit you suck at the game, nobody will judge you

Or you can admit Bugmaker was badly made and a wasted opportunity.

That and the fact that you are tilting at windmills.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

It's not so much that he sucks at the game, it's more of an inability to accept failure or the game mechanics as designed. As if the game should be level scaled and adapt to your every move, providing an even challenge in every encounter you come across.

 

[Yosharian]

you can just admit you suck at the game, nobody will judge you

*holds hand up* I will

 

[HoboForEternity]

using fire resist and spamming fireball in everything is actually a legit strategy i often use after discovering it nowadays who cares about friendly AOE damage when you resist it all?

 

[Cael]

It's not so much that he sucks at the game, it's more of an inability to accept failure or the game mechanics as designed. As if the game should be level scaled and adapt to your every move, providing an even challenge in every encounter you come across.

Which is never what I said. In fact, I decried Dragon Age's level scaling as stupid and a waste of time. There is a difference between crafting a good progression of challenges and playing gotcha. But, of course, that would not play to your fanboi narrative, so you had to make something up to defend your shit.

 

[Sarkile]

Wererats with unlimited (or close enough; I consider a level 3 PC having enough bombs to kill an entire party with some left over to be infinite enough to not matter, not to mention the Wealth by Level table) bombs is bad encounter design. As I said, I don't mind running into an encounter you are not supposed to defeat until much later. That is why I like Fallout 2. Run towards Navarro or San Fran straight out of Aroyo and you are taking your own life into your own hands. So, the question is, were you directed to another place away from the area? Or is it in the general area of where you are supposed to go and you can stumble onto it accidentally resulting in "Oh snap, you dead!"?

That wererat is an alchemist, its bombs are a class feature and have nothing to do with wealth by level. Additionally it has an armor that provides additional uses of that class feature, and all three creatures buff themselves after you trigger the alarm outside of their cave. There are many examples of bad encounter design in this game, but this optional area isn't it.

 

[Cael]

Wererats with unlimited (or close enough; I consider a level 3 PC having enough bombs to kill an entire party with some left over to be infinite enough to not matter, not to mention the Wealth by Level table) bombs is bad encounter design. As I said, I don't mind running into an encounter you are not supposed to defeat until much later. That is why I like Fallout 2. Run towards Navarro or San Fran straight out of Aroyo and you are taking your own life into your own hands. So, the question is, were you directed to another place away from the area? Or is it in the general area of where you are supposed to go and you can stumble onto it accidentally resulting in "Oh snap, you dead!"?

That wererat is an alchemist, its bombs are a class feature and have nothing to do with wealth by level. Additionally it has an armor that provides additional uses of that class feature, and all three creatures buff themselves after you trigger the alarm outside of their cave. There are many examples of bad encounter design in this game, but this optional area isn't it.

Which brings us back to another of my observations about the system: Overpowered classes.

My salient comment in this entire sage remains the same: Playing rocket tag from level 1 is not incline. It is fucking decline.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Balance isn't fun.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Which brings us back to another of my observations about the system: Overpowered classes.

My salient comment in this entire sage remains the same: Playing rocket tag from level 1 is not incline. It is fucking decline.

You're observing what, exactly? Youtube?

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Balance isn't fun.

Balance in RPGs is dumb.

Breaking RPGs or ruining your character and needing to start over is what makes RPGs a lot of fun. It's the thinking man's genre. If I want balance I'll bust out the 2600 and play Pong, nigga.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Balance to the point of making everything equal undermines the entire point of combat in an RPG.
For a good example, look at pretty much any modern MMORPG.

 

[Cael]

Balance to the point of making everything equal undermines the entire point of combat in an RPG.
For a good example, look at pretty much any modern MMORPG.

The irony of that statement is... staggering.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Balance to the point of making everything equal undermines the entire point of combat in an RPG.
For a good example, look at pretty much any modern MMORPG.

The irony of that statement is... staggering.

MMORPGs largely share their combat with single player RPGs. It's only a recent trend that they moved away from spreadsheets and number crunching to safety scissor design

 

[Cael]

Balance to the point of making everything equal undermines the entire point of combat in an RPG.
For a good example, look at pretty much any modern MMORPG.

The irony of that statement is... staggering.

MMORPGs largely share their combat with single player RPGs. It's only a recent trend that they moved away from spreadsheets and number crunching to safety scissor design

I recall an rather infamous WoW video... Leeeeeeee-roy Jeeeeeeenkiiiinnnssssss!!!!

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Combat in mmos basically boils down to tank, healer, dps - so much so that the mmos themselves even put this in the class descriptions.

Everything is built around balancing the various classes and the whole game feels like a neutered mess half of the people there for the broken social experience of fighting random trashmobs with people you barely really know, and the other half trying to play it like a singleplayer game and salvaging what little story there is.

Balance should only come into play when determining fun and verisimilitude, not fairness. Unless your game is multiplayer, in which case the battle is lost and it is doomed to become watered down trash, just so that one butthurt little faggot doesn't take his ball and run home refund.