Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Grunker]

With regards to playing a different character, I went CG on my first playthrough and NE on my second. That was a MASSIVE mistake. While Chaotic Good was your run of the mill "good with some edgy thrown in" and LG seemed to have some fun "fascist saviour"-moments, Neutral Evil really sucked. Simply because it didn't have enough choice or identity. I could see Lawful Evil being fun, and maaaaybe even Chaotic Evil. LE seems to have a very strong identity and CE at least has a lot of *really* unique stuff. But neutral evil was kind of just Lawful Evil but with less options and less fun.

If I ever play the game again, it's gonna be LE.

 

[The_Mask]

I wonder how different a playthrough would look if i played completely different character?

Most changes have to do with outcome of characters. If you're good, you get a lot of "positive" outcomes.
Neutrals enjoy the best international policy, and overall best kingdom in my opinion.
Chaotics have the best laughs.
The only one I haven't tried yet is Chaotic Evil, where you are literally a thief and you murder and hobo everyone, but that ones sounds like fun too.

 

[Efe]

optional chapter is padded because they try to make a cameo of everyone and everything you have been through so far

 

[Saravan]

I agree that the house sucked. It sucked so much I stopped my nearly complete first playthrough there and didn't finish the game until like a year later with an entirely new playthrough.

BUT, I also think a lot of what happens during that ending is the game's strongest story parts. I really liked some small bits of the games story (I loved Jubilost's companion story, for instance), but in general I was kind of 'whatever' to most of the writing in the game. But I thought much of Nyrissa's and the Lantern Kings bits during the last couple of hours were pretty much bang on as far as brainless, P&P-like entertainment writing goes.

It's very difficult to handle these kinds of mysterious, fickle, godlike beings "beyond human comprehension" in a compelling manner - just look at Mass Effect's reapers for the most obvious example of how not to do it. The way Kingmaker presents the First World population and the way they apply their "logic" - especially in this final part of the game - was very well handled, I thought. The fairy stuff really comes off as inhuman almost cruel but still oddly innocent and playful.

I can see your point story wise. Gameplay wise I'm hard pressed to find such tedium justified. I guess if you REALLY love the combat you are grateful for the extra content. Each to his own I suppose.

 

[Grunker]

Saravan: it is not. I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was defending the tedium. I was merely saying that while I understand the hate for HatEoT (I mean, I literally dumped a 100+ hours playthrough at that point and completely walked away from the game), upon replaying it I think that tedium masks a lot of the games strongest writing.

 

[Stavrophore]

You know how you cast six or even more buffs when entering a map, or even before every encounter? It would be sweet if you could assign all these spells from different chars to just one key. You press it and chars automatically try to cast applicable spells either on themselves or on other char that you picked up. Just like you create a keyboard/mouse macro.

 

[Grunker]

You know how you cast six or even more buffs when entering a map, or even before every encounter? It would be sweet if you could assign all these spells from different chars to just one key. You press it and chars automatically try to cast applicable spells either on themselves or on other char that you picked up. Just like you create a keyboard/mouse macro.

It's probably harder than it sounds to compute, though. Because of positional elements, targeting, component selection etcetera.

 

[Stavrophore]

You know how you cast six or even more buffs when entering a map, or even before every encounter? It would be sweet if you could assign all these spells from different chars to just one key. You press it and chars automatically try to cast applicable spells either on themselves or on other char that you picked up. Just like you create a keyboard/mouse macro.

It's probably harder than it sounds to compute, though. Because of positional elements, targeting, component selection etcetera.

Boy you haven't played fps competitive shooters, and saw miracles that aimbots can do.

 

[LannTheStupid]

i give this game 7+/8 out of 10.

What Kingmaker did to me, is that it rekindled a flame to replay DOS2. ... I now i will not return to the dread of kingmaking and loading screen experience, hence the next kingdom will be on auto.

Boy you haven't played fps competitive shooters

OK, I guess...

 

[Stavrophore]

Very balanced review, though the video is extremely long

 

[volklore]

Plays on hard, complains the game is hard. That's a typical youtuber review alright.

Also says that he didn't build around a certain enemy type which makes them hard and because the game repeats encounters multiple times featuring these enemy types he just decided to use mods to delete the encounters altogether lol. Instead of, god forbid, solving those encounters by engaging with the games systems.

I am sympathetic to criticism of kingmaker regarding the abuse of trash mobs, because it does go overboard with them, but this guy's review is pure decline.

 

[Stavrophore]

Disclaimer: im not the author of the video.

Also what i would change for TB mode. Switch speed up key from space to other key, as space is also end turn key. I've accidentally ended turn few times because of this.

I also think that owlcat wanted an ambitious political intrigue, with political fighting against other kingdoms[varnhold DLC kinda hint at that too],especially looking at how the game starts and sets everything, only to find the project too ambitious and scraping it for "basically deus ex machina setting everything in motion and who set the tartuccio events".

 

[NJClaw]

You know how you cast six or even more buffs when entering a map, or even before every encounter? It would be sweet if you could assign all these spells from different chars to just one key. You press it and chars automatically try to cast applicable spells either on themselves or on other char that you picked up. Just like you create a keyboard/mouse macro.

There's a mod on the Nexus to do exactly that, the Buff Bot: https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/119

It's not perfect (last time I checked, clerics couldn't auto-cast buffs from domain slots, but the mod got many patches since then), but it's still very useful.

 

[Stavrophore]

Of all persons, i would have never thought that Linzi and Storyteller are such terrible antisemites.
I've personally called Vladimir Putin to shutdown Owlcat Games studio.

 

[Desiderius]

Of all persons, i would never thought that Linzi and Storyteller would be such terrible antisemites.
I've personally called Vladimir Putin to shutdown Owlcat Games studio.

If they’re anti-semites why did they make Jewb the best companion? Bleach is pretty caustic, if you take my meaning.

 

[cpmartins]

Just finished it, fantastic game. My only complain is the kingdom management part after you dealt with exploration and the story. I once had 200 straight days of that boring shit with nothing to do but push "Pass Day" to plow through and that was not fun at all.
I just hope they tone down the "other" aspect of the game on their next iteration or, failing that, make it less boring.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I didn't play the game until it was the enhanced edition over a year after release. I did not think HatEoT was that bad, though I went in knowing it would be difficult due to reputation. Having experienced the lantern business before, it wasn't too tough to figure out. I mostly stayed in one phase and adjusted as necessary. I did have to exert some trail and error in one area to get to the final chambers, which did annoy me a little. That was mostly because the "nexus" where you get transported to was too narrow, and my PC would routinely pass through the unintended portal. The ghosts weren't a problem, because my MC's AC's was all touch. The only fights that gave me real trouble was "the wriggling man" and the one massive group of mandragora swarms. I killed the wriggling man in reasonable time, but things were starting to get out of hand quickly. Mandragora swarms were a major irritation, but my party were walking demigods with effectively unlimited supplies of high powered scrolls. Might as well be using cheat codes at that point.

 

[Desiderius]

I didn't play the game until it was the enhanced edition over a year after release. I did not think HatEoT was that bad, though I went in knowing it would be difficult due to reputation. Having experienced the lantern business before, it wasn't too tough to figure out. I mostly stayed in one phase and adjusted as necessary. I did have to exert some trail and error in one area to get to the final chambers, which did annoy me a little. That was mostly because the "nexus" where you get transported to was too narrow, and my PC would routinely pass through the unintended portal. The ghosts weren't a problem, because my MC's AC's was all touch. The only fights that gave me real trouble was "the wriggling man" and the one massive group of mandragora swarms. I killed the wriggling man in reasonable time, but things were starting to get out of hand quickly. Mandragora swarms were a major irritation, but my party were walking demigods with effectively unlimited supplies of high powered scrolls. Might as well be using cheat codes at that point.

That’s what the last chapter was supposed to be for - to cut you suddenly back down to size and you could use your newfound knowledge to blow out situations you may have struggled with the first time through. But yeah too long to get there.

 

[Grunker]

I feel like when people say they don't like the kingdom management they need to be more specific. The system and the cards - sure, it was tedium at worst and at best it gave little nuggets of satisfaction when you fulfilled some important increment of numbers or finally got down teleporters or aviaries.

But the audiences? That shit was hella awesome and really added flavour to the game. I loved it, even though I felt like my Neutral Evil kingdom was just about the most boring kingdom to run. The most boring version was still fun. It was just a good time to see all the different people who visited and deal with their dilemmas.

It reinforces something I've long suspected about stronghold systems in RPG:

- What works is what BG2 did, where the "stronghold" is really just a frame for interesting choices, quests and items. And of course, a base of operations that you can upgrade to provide mechanical benefits like workbenches or whatever.

- What never works is when they attempt the shortcut and make a system of it because it's always gonna be a shitty minigame.

Overall, my top 3 Strongholds in RPGs go to:

1st place: Kingmaker
2nd place: BG2
3rd place: NWN2 (and I didn't even like the game)

Because they all put immense development effort into making quests and choices that actually make you feel like you're running a kingdom. The stronghold is an extension of the game's core systems - not a tacked on minigame.

In contrast, the worst strongholds are something like Pillars of Eternity that nearly only have the weak, weak minigame.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

My biggest complaint with kingdom management were the advisor restrictions. It would have been nice for the MC to be able to tend to any affair, or allow advisors to act out of their "role" at a penalty.

 

[The_Mask]

If you're a cleric of Irori, you get extra dialogue at the Castle of Knives, with the peaceful trial dudes.

 

[Desiderius]

My biggest complaint with kingdom management were the advisor restrictions. It would have been nice for the MC to be able to tend to any affair, or allow advisors to act out of their "role" at a penalty.

Feels like a lot of that just came from the stress of starting out without an Econ advisor and that capping your “income” at first when people naturally thought that mattered, especially when Jewb was so easy to miss since the red exclamation points default to off and only show up under the hard to find Show Location names button.

 

[Wulfric Pinewood]

Who is that Jewb and how to get him? Im on the Troll trouble now just a start.

 

[Grunker]

Who is that Jewb and how to get him? Im on the Troll trouble now just a start.

Ford Across Skunk River. Turn on Show Location Names.

 

[Desiderius]

Who is that Jewb and how to get him? Im on the Troll trouble now just a start.

Best companion in the game (as long as you bring along his Dog Okbo) and a good Treasurer and better spymaster. To make matters worse if you go to Ford before TTrouble triggers he’s not there yet.