Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Haplo]

What build would be best against the last part of the game, ie. house at the end of time?

if you don't mind the most boring kinds of cheese, kineticists are downright dumb. they work around all immunities of all enemies and deal the game's largest radius of aoe damage that doesn't harm allies. basically all upside no downside

Actually their aoe moves do harm allies. But other then that, yeah, they are a good bet to trivialize the game, particularly with magma Deadly Earth (and maybe Cloud for good measure).

I haven't found them to be as trivial as advertised. Kiting + persistent AoEs is something that you can do in general I guess but seems like more of a pain than just killing shit, at which Kineticist is good but far from easy to get there. They don't have a ton of tools to hit with their physical Blasts and their Energy Blasts have to deal with SR outside of Pure Flame.

They are not as strong early, when the game is hardest, yeah. Still not bad at all though. And if optimized, they get Deadly Earth at level 13 and trivialize the rest of the game. Wall is at 10-11 AFAIR, and already pretty strong.
SR is hardly an issue in Kingmaker. And frankly, neither is Kin accuracy. If you have trouble hitting enemy AC, you can always use some Reflex based infusion.
And the bonus Wild Talent feats on Fire or Earth are just awesome.

 

[Grunker]

What build would be best against the last part of the game, ie. house at the end of time?

if you don't mind the most boring kinds of cheese, kineticists are downright dumb. they work around all immunities of all enemies and deal the game's largest radius of aoe damage that doesn't harm allies. basically all upside no downside

Actually their aoe moves do harm allies. But other then that, yeah, they are a good bet to trivialize the game, particularly with magma Deadly Earth (and maybe Cloud for good measure).

I haven't found them to be as trivial as advertised. Kiting + persistent AoEs is something that you can do in general I guess but seems like more of a pain than just killing shit, at which Kineticist is good but far from easy to get there. They don't have a ton of tools to hit with their physical Blasts and their Energy Blasts have to deal with SR outside of Pure Flame.

He was asking specifically for lategame, and there, they are the best at trivializing content.

 

[Desiderius]

They are not as strong early, when the game is hardest, yeah. Still not bad at all though. And if optimized, they get Deadly Earth at level 13 and trivialize the rest of the game. Wall is at 10-11 AFAIR, and already pretty strong.
SR is hardly an issue in Kingmaker. And frankly, neither is Kin accuracy. If you have trouble hitting enemy AC, you can always use some Reflex based infusion.

I mean I can hit any AC but it's relatively harder to do so than any but the 1/2 BAB classes. Don't the Reflex Infusions tack on their own Saves? To get the Trip on Deadly Earth are you kiting around long enough until they roll a crit miss on the Trip? Some of the stuff where to want to target Touch also has the SR so that contradicts the bypassing all defenses bit. I've just found them to be handy in low rest situations and able to deal out impressive damage when played well but not really broken in the least and a little dull.

 

[Stavrophore]

Are double wielding, kineticist knights/blade infusers viable? Since you can pump dex and con, you should get plenty of defense in melee and good hit chance with finesse weapons.

 

[Desiderius]

He was asking specifically for lategame, and there, they are the best at trivializing content.

And I'd like an explanation of how that plays out. Are we talking kiting for twenty rounds or blowing shit away in one? I can do the latter with KKnight when things work out well but shit gets squirrely with them in RTwP.

 

[Stavrophore]

Im not going to kite enemies for twenty rounds. I wanted to decrease the tedium, not increase it ffs.

 

[Desiderius]

You do, don't you?

Linzi died.

That Pathfinder chick tags along to House for the express purpose of training you up a replacement. Maybe you've got a certain repentant Elf unexpectedly on hand who'd be perfect for the job.

 

[Haplo]

He was asking specifically for lategame, and there, they are the best at trivializing content.

And I'd like an explanation of how that plays out. Are we talking kiting for twenty rounds or blowing shit away in one? I can do the latter with KKnight when things work out well but shit gets squirrely with them in RTwP.

No need to kite if in a party. Or with CC. Park melee dude outside. Some enemies with weak CMD (like Ghosts) have little chances to even leave the aoe radius. And it doesn't take anywhere near twenty rounds. More like a few (no save to reduce damage, damage applied twice in 1st round).
For extra brokedness can stack Cloud Infusion on top - goes really fast then.
Also a Wall just outside the aoe with Pushing Infusion is a neat possibility.

 

[Stavrophore]

Yes im trying to retrain some people or hire new. I wanted to finish the game with my dedicated team, but it went to shit because some of them died.

 

[Grunker]

He was asking specifically for lategame, and there, they are the best at trivializing content.

And I'd like an explanation of how that plays out. Are we talking kiting for twenty rounds or blowing shit away in one? I can do the latter with KKnight when things work out well but shit gets squirrely with them in RTwP.

I just put all my guys outside whatever room I wanted to clear and went nuts. I do recall sometimes having to hunt strays, use CC or similar, but like I said, I didn't play it for long. I used it for a couple of rooms and then decided to play the actual game instead.

EDIT: you're the one always talking about "playing the game in front of you." How on earth would you get any fight in this game to last 20 rounds? That is definetely not "the game in front of you." The lethality of 3.5/Pathfinder is on display here even with the insano-stat buffs of Unfair (which should have been even bigger, tbh), meaning combat almost always last very few rounds, no matter who wins.

 

[Stavrophore]

So with the skilled kineticist trait, somehow the primary elements add to skills, but there's no explanation which element is tied to which skill. Do fire increase mobility or lore? And what about other elements like water?

 

[Desiderius]

Ghosts are immune to Trip.

 

[Grunker]

So with the skilled kineticist trait, somehow the primary elements add to skills, but there's no explanation which element is tied to which skill. Do fire increase mobility or lore? And what about other elements like water?

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-kingmaker/builds/Main_Character#Unfair_Kineticist

There's a build here, but again... use that thing and you might as well just use the console.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I wanted to finish the game with my dedicated team, but it went to shit because some of them died.

This is, actually, telling.

There is only one mandatory death out of all the companions. The Death of the Author, so to speak.

But if some intellectually challenged player ignores the story, the companions, their plight and woes, then C&C of Kingmaker bites his head off. Which is amazing. And then - exactly as a headless chicken - they start to run around and hire weird mercs. Which the game allows, too.

And all of this instead of forgetting the game and playing the rogue like sandbox that the developers provided.

 

[Desiderius]

What build would be best against the last part of the game, ie. house at the end of time? I find it tedious with plot companions to kill these ghostly guards. They are basically immune to will abilities, can't be crit/sneak attacked, can't be poisoned. The only way i see it is literally a brute force and damage dealing spells. It's extremely annoying to rest after clearing each room.

They're vulnerable to Sonic Stuns, Slows, and Blinds. Force and Divine damage bypasses their damage reduction.
View attachment 20224

Fortitude is weak save for both Ghosts and Fae so late game Bard switches from Enchant to Evo. If you still have a Bard that is. You do, don't you?

The Slowing Mud seen here is Druid Spellbook version of Slow which attacks Fortitude.

 

[Grunker]

btw just as an addendum:

They are not as strong early, when the game is hardest

It's a little unprecise of me to say the game gets trivial "later" since it actually does pick up a little bit. It has a stretch from abooooout level 9 until level 15 where it's entirely trivial. Peak Trivial is Vordakai. But to be fair to the game the difficulty does come back a little bit during the absolute final stages due to the swarms, Horned enemes etc. At least I couldn't switch off my brain completely anymore at that point.

 

[Haplo]

Ghosts are immune to Trip.

Which didn't stop them from making that animation AFAIR. Unless it was fixed.

 

[Stavrophore]

I wanted to finish the game with my dedicated team, but it went to shit because some of them died.

This is, actually, telling.

There is only one mandatory death out of all the companions. The Death of the Author, so to speak.

But if some intellectually challenged player ignores the story, the companions, their plight and woes, then C&C of Kingmaker bites his head off. Which is amazing. And then - exactly as a headless chicken - they start to run around and hire weird mercs. Which the game allows, too.

And all of this instead of forgetting the game and playing the rogue like sandbox that the developers provided.

Only tristian and linzi died, two necessary characters i needed. Ive replaced tristiam with the dwarf, but linzi will have to be replaced with custom char.

 

[Grunker]

I wanted to finish the game with my dedicated team, but it went to shit because some of them died.

This is, actually, telling.

There is only one mandatory death out of all the companions. The Death of the Author, so to speak.

But if some intellectually challenged player ignores the story, the companions, their plight and woes, then C&C of Kingmaker bites his head off. Which is amazing. And then - exactly as a headless chicken - they start to run around and hire weird mercs. Which the game allows, too.

And all of this instead of forgetting the game and playing the rogue like sandbox that the developers provided.

Only tristian and linzi died, two necessary characters i needed. Ive replaced tristiam with the dwarf, but linzi will have to be replaced with custom char.

What do you need Linzi for? And who are you using currently?

Jubilost, Octavia, Jaethal and the sisters will all do great at the house if you don't want to use the respec mod.

 

[Stavrophore]

Linzi chants were great, and she had some nice buff spells like greater heroism.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Tristian dies only if either his or Jaethal quest is not resolved in proper good way. Which brings me to my previous post.

Ask Desiderius what is good.

 

[Stavrophore]

"proper good way"

It's an RPG game ffs. Ive resolved it as I wanted/found appropriate, and not as its best to min max.

 

[Desiderius]

Tristian dies only if either his or Jaethal quest is not resolved in proper good way. Which brings me to my previous post.

Ask Desiderius what is good.

Ok, Pilate. It’s pretty straightforward unless you’ve got your own agenda.

 

[Desiderius]

I wanted to finish the game with my dedicated team, but it went to shit because some of them died.

This is, actually, telling.

There is only one mandatory death out of all the companions. The Death of the Author, so to speak.

But if some intellectually challenged player ignores the story, the companions, their plight and woes, then C&C of Kingmaker bites his head off. Which is amazing. And then - exactly as a headless chicken - they start to run around and hire weird mercs. Which the game allows, too.

And all of this instead of forgetting the game and playing the rogue like sandbox that the developers provided.

Only tristian and linzi died, two necessary characters i needed. Ive replaced tristiam with the dwarf, but linzi will have to be replaced with custom char.

Game is more fun if you use that extra 30 IQ pts you’ve got tied behind your back.

 

[Desiderius]

Linzi chants were great, and she had some nice buff spells like greater heroism.

Good thing you didn’t find the other half of her action economy or then you’d really be crushed. One of biggest trolls in RPG history. Make Bard absurdly OP then take her away to make the Bard-haters taste it.