KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

So, it's exactly like how I predicted it's going to be - more and more unfinished and buggy as the chapters go on. Good to know.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

So, it's exactly like how I predicted it's going to be - more and more unfinished and buggy as the chapters go on. Good to know.

yes, and the patches are making it worse
I don't really expect this game to get fixed with how the developers are pushing out untested patches that are introducing more bugs

 

[Luckmann]

Let's see... I'll be a sword and board Fighter with high AC through the first part of the game. The fights would be boring, but since the enemy can't hit me, I am assured of a win, basically.

Then I will respec into a Power attacking, Greatsword wielding Barbarian, because in the low-mid levels, hitting things really, REALLY hard will end things faster and minimise the damage taken.

Then, I will respec into a Wizard at the mid-levels, because, dude, have you seen the power curve difference at this stage???

Yeah. That is totally how a cRPG game should be played.

Spoiler

"My plan is to play a diplomatic forest-lover in the beginning of the game, because there's tons of Nature Checks, but then I'm going to change into a religious zealot, maxing out intimidation for the portions with the church, because otherwise I can't recruit both the neutral good druids and the lawful good paladin order. And for some reason, the assumption that most players will never fail a check (why even have checks lol?!) and be able to join every mechanically gated (more like ungated xD) faction doesn't affect game design at all. I am very smart."

I get accused of being a racist a lot, but generally speaking, I don't care about various races as much as I care about national states and ethnic homogeneity. As long as sub-saharan Africans stay in sub-saharan Africa, I honestly don't care, and would happily work with them to all of our best abilities.

But there is no place for decline-enabling respec-niggers anywhere on this the gods green Earth, and no other solution than the wholesale genocide of their entire breed. The same goes for their compass-jew and fast travel-faggot kin, who all have proven equally uneducateable.

What would be wrong with Arcanum-style fast travel (ie. you can learn Teleport spells when you get to an appropriately high level)? I think that'd be reasonable in Kingmaker, teleport exists in D&D.

Nothing, really, as long as it makes sense. In Arcanum, for example, you still need to know the location, you need to actually make such a character capable of teleporting, the teleporting makes sense in the narrative and there's a certain amount of mechanical-narrative interaction (your mechanical representation as a teleporter makes sense in the context of the universe as a narrative), and there's even some interesting restrictions (much thanks to the magic vs. mechanics dichotomy). It also usually comes in fairly late, unless you beeline for it (and you normally would not).

The fundamental issues of fast-travel are the trivialization for movement/travel and how it's divorced from narrative/worldbuilding) aspects (and/or their interaction with mechanics). Arcanum doesn't have any of that. It's not entirely problem-free, still, since you can no longer rely on player exploration as much, nor can have the game or quests in it rely on random encounters, which are things PF:K relies a lot on.

That said, it could be entirely possible to make something like that for PF:K, but such subsystems are not usually what people think about when discussing fast-travel, nor is it the kind of fast-travel people usually criticize. There are numerous fast-travel-like solutions that can work well, depending on the type of game. Morrowind did it well for hiking simulators, and Arcanum did it well for RPG:s.

 

[Volrath]

I get accused of being a racist a lot...

Interact with Infinitron enough and no one on the planet (except SJWs, but they don't count as they are not human) would fault you for turning into a raving anti-Semite

This is actually true

 

[Luckmann]

Let's see... I'll be a sword and board Fighter with high AC through the first part of the game. The fights would be boring, but since the enemy can't hit me, I am assured of a win, basically.

Then I will respec into a Power attacking, Greatsword wielding Barbarian, because in the low-mid levels, hitting things really, REALLY hard will end things faster and minimise the damage taken.

Then, I will respec into a Wizard at the mid-levels, because, dude, have you seen the power curve difference at this stage???

Yeah. That is totally how a cRPG game should be played.

Spoiler

"My plan is to play a diplomatic forest-lover in the beginning of the game, because there's tons of Nature Checks, but then I'm going to change into a religious zealot, maxing out intimidation for the portions with the church, because otherwise I can't recruit both the neutral good druids and the lawful good paladin order. And for some reason, the assumption that most players will never fail a check (why even have checks lol?!) and be able to join every mechanically gated (more like ungated xD) faction doesn't affect game design at all. I am very smart."

I get accused of being a racist a lot, but generally speaking, I don't care about various races as much as I care about national states and ethnic homogeneity. As long as sub-saharan Africans stay in sub-saharan Africa, I honestly don't care, and would happily work with them to all of our best abilities.

But there is no place for decline-enabling respec-niggers anywhere on this the gods green Earth, and no other solution than the wholesale genocide of their entire breed. The same goes for their compass-jew and fast travel-faggot kin, who all have proven equally uneducateable.

I can't imagine being so tempted to abuse game mechanics just because they're there. I'm glad I'm not a snownigger.

Again, still not the issue, but I don't expect a nigger-nigger with a likely IQ of ~70 to be able to see beyond his own immediate wants and needs. It's why you top rape-statistics. Including, apparently, the raping of good game design.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Wait no good long swords in game? Someone masochistic enough to play chapter IV-V can confirm that? I did found tons of exotic shit +1 like estoc, rapier, dueling sword and some shit I did not even knew existed but also Longsword +1 in ancient tomb and Great sword +1 in Socomore tree. Multiple bro fists for Comrade Luckmann the sad history of 2000s should teach you that if you allow streamlining the devs will change the way the games are made and embrace the ((( ))) for all those sweet shekels from console peasants. Commissar planed accordingly and even added epic beard for those three months campaigning in wilds before hand and took difficulty notch down when realized that those Owlcat devs are such trolls to not even make two chars who mock SJW's stronk womyn trope but also gave them both useless traits, after meeting Rognar can see that all those fear about game being SJW with him and Loli mocking the Snowflake Val about her whining how terrible her life as spoiled noble brat was.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Let's see... I'll be a sword and board Fighter with high AC through the first part of the game. The fights would be boring, but since the enemy can't hit me, I am assured of a win, basically.

Then I will respec into a Power attacking, Greatsword wielding Barbarian, because in the low-mid levels, hitting things really, REALLY hard will end things faster and minimise the damage taken.

Then, I will respec into a Wizard at the mid-levels, because, dude, have you seen the power curve difference at this stage???

Yeah. That is totally how a cRPG game should be played.

Spoiler

"My plan is to play a diplomatic forest-lover in the beginning of the game, because there's tons of Nature Checks, but then I'm going to change into a religious zealot, maxing out intimidation for the portions with the church, because otherwise I can't recruit both the neutral good druids and the lawful good paladin order. And for some reason, the assumption that most players will never fail a check (why even have checks lol?!) and be able to join every mechanically gated (more like ungated xD) faction doesn't affect game design at all. I am very smart."

I get accused of being a racist a lot, but generally speaking, I don't care about various races as much as I care about national states and ethnic homogeneity. As long as sub-saharan Africans stay in sub-saharan Africa, I honestly don't care, and would happily work with them to all of our best abilities.

But there is no place for decline-enabling respec-niggers anywhere on this the gods green Earth, and no other solution than the wholesale genocide of their entire breed. The same goes for their compass-jew and fast travel-faggot kin, who all have proven equally uneducateable.

I can't imagine being so tempted to abuse game mechanics just because they're there. I'm glad I'm not a snownigger.

Again, still not the issue, but I don't expect a nigger-nigger with a likely IQ of ~70 to be able to see beyond his own immediate wants and needs. It's why you top rape-statistics. Including, apparently, the raping of good game design.

Is there a reason you bring up rape so much? Is it, because like being tempted to abuse respeccing in video games, you simply can't help yourself when you see a woman and you must rape her? Should we cover all women in burqas to not tempt you?

 

[Jarpie]

Luckmann did you find a way to replace the portrait for the companions?

 

[Luckmann]

Luckmann, Didn't you edit your companion to give them feats or something? what's the difference between that and respecing?

Me changing my own characters has no bearing on game design, and my own decisions to act upon the game as I see fit myself is between me and my ability to self-moderate. There's also a huge difference between adjusting a perceived flaw in design (such as giving Amiri Greatsword and Valerie Longsword instead of both having Bastard Swords) and allowing at-will optimization - especially when it comes to C/NPC:s, as I think that mechanical and narrative design should, whenever remotely possible, go hand in hand.

Respec changes a base assumption when it comes to the nature of the game at it's core. You know that anyone, usually at any point, could adjust. It's not even unreasonable, and some people actually complained about going back to the respec mirror over and over in D:OS2 in order to qualify for everything while also optimizing for combat (even though the seperation of contexts in such a way is ridiculous from an RPG perspective).

Character editors and the like is a completely different beast. You are cheating, you are deviating from the intended design, and you take the consequences - if any - based on it. The same is not true when it is integrated into the game, because then it is sanctioned, and the developers cannot say or simply assume that "Well, you're doing it wrong, that's why it sucks".

 

[Neanderthal]

Is there a reason you bring up rape so much? Is it, because like being tempted to abuse respeccing in video games, you simply can't help yourself when you see a woman and you must rape her? Should we cover all women in burqas to not tempt you?

 

[Luckmann]

Draco.

Luckmann did you find a way to replace the portrait for the companions?

I did, in fact.

Spoiler

Not.

 

[Luckmann]

Respeccing the feats etc would be fine IMO, you might pick up weapon which doesn't have really any good weapons as loot or in the stores, or taking feats which doesn't work etc. Didn't respeccing work like that in PoE?

I disagree with the weapons feat respec-ing. That has always been a bit of a gamble, even in PnP. One of the reasons why weapon feats are considered to be a trap for PnP.

Feats that don't work, on the other hand, should never have been in the game in the first place. Respec-ing is merely treating the symptoms of the problem, not the root cause (which is incompetent game developers who should be shot with a nail gun starting from the toes and going up).

I'm actually fine with Weapon Focus retraining, but that's largely because I think that any reasonable DM would allow you to do that if your character puts in some effort, meaning that it doesn't entail "respeccing" in the modernist game way, but rather as another facet of the character's advancement. In 3.5, i thin Unearther Arcana or Player's Handbook 2 has suggested guidelines for changing feats, but it is rather restrictive.

As long as there's a meaningful cost (thankfully, PF:K actually *does* have a currency that matters: time!) and there's some mechanical and narrative effort, along with reasonable limitations (I believe the usual rule is "once per level", which I think is OK) I'd be fine with it. But if you're busy for a week learning how to use a sword instead of a mace, you can't do much else. The more you're "into" using maces, the longer it would take, the more expensive it would become, and the more levels would have to be "used".

It would so defy the idea of "respec", however, that I see no reason to refer to it as such. It is very much like the teleportation vs. fast travel.

Edit: https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1730963192543650673/

Dear Pathfinders,
Many of you have asked us to add more character portraits in the game – and we hear you loud and clear! In the upcoming weeks, we are going to release a free DLC pack with a couple of new character portraits. To make the most out of it, we decided to ask you: which portraits would you like to see in the upcoming free DLC?
We have set up a poll consisting of three parts. Firstly, you can vote on the gender and race of those depicted in the portraits. Secondly, you can vote on their class. Finally, you can also add a description of the portrait of your dream for our artists to read and draw inspiration from!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdlbVbzpejWIDL-97k_yZD7Te7wt2KEQqXdKPYeaWfn1UCjTg/viewform

I wish they'd stop referring to me as a pathfinder. The idea of the Pathfinder Society in Golarion is the fucking worst. I was going to shit on them for prioritizing pictures over bugs, but I guess that the portrait painters are different people from the icon painters and the code-monkies.

Looking forward to more portraits, no matter how they crop up, as long as they hold the same great standard.

Here's hoping for some not-black aasimar.

 

[Jaedar]

I would like a hint for chapter 3:

Spoiler

What is supposed to be going on? I stopped trolls, but since then no new crisis or apparent main quest has appeared. I visited varnhold, but he was just "nice to meet you".

Am I supposed to just randomly spend time until cursed hill triggers again? (100 days from now...)

How do I unlock more advisor slots? I upgraded my capitol to a town or w/e but that only seems to have unlocked more building slots I can't afford.

Exploration is fun and all, but I feel like I'm just randomly wandering.

 

[dragonul09]

Can't believe they broke the game even more with this patch, I was wondering why they hell my char doesnt take any fire damage and to my surprise I had 10 rows of 30+ fire protection due the item bonus stack bug. Now I can't play because all my chars have some fucked up stats, like -50 perception on my god damn rogue, 1 con on my ranger. They really had to fuck up my weekend

 

[Mortmal]

I would like a hint for chapter 3:

Spoiler

What is supposed to be going on? I stopped trolls, but since then no new crisis or apparent main quest has appeared. I visited varnhold, but he was just "nice to meet you".

Am I supposed to just randomly spend time until cursed hill triggers again? (100 days from now...)

How do I unlock more advisor slots? I upgraded my capitol to a town or w/e but that only seems to have unlocked more building slots I can't afford.

Exploration is fun and all, but I feel like I'm just randomly wandering.

Keep passing time and do castle events till the new main event appears. Then you will have a whole region to explore , last dungeon require at least 1-2 rests, potions ,scrolls, like a real D&D dungeon. When you done it, SAVE AND KEEP THE SAVE GAME BACKED. Cause after it that's when the serious bugs appears, you can keep going on but only a few masochists like me should. Fixes are not retroactive.

 

[Incantatar]

I'm actually fine with Weapon Focus retraining, but that's largely because I think that any reasonable DM would allow you to do that if your character puts in some effort, meaning that it doesn't entail "respeccing" in the modernist game way, but rather as another facet of the character's advancement. In 3.5, i thin Unearther Arcana or Player's Handbook 2 has suggested guidelines for changing feats, but it is rather restrictive.

The problem with the specialization feats in 3.5+ is they are too narrow. I've house-ruled them to be class specializations (swords, polearms, bows,...) instead. It makes more sense imo and the DM has more freedom with items. There is no respec in my games.

 

[Jarpie]

Luckmann did you find a way to replace the portrait for the companions?

I did, in fact.

Spoiler

Not.

Unless saves have field for portraits in the companion entries, would probably need unpacking the gamefiles, replacing the portraits and repacking the files.

 

[fantadomat]

Anyone wanna talk about the Lamashtu quest? That one was interesting. I presume

Spoiler

if you let the priestess help the pregnant woman the baby will come out as a complete abomination?

As Somone who thinks it is ethical to abort extremely handicapped people that was a no brainer.

That child/monster would have a terrible life and I would probably have to kill it later anyway.

WAS it a monster though?

I decided to kick the priestess out and

Spoiler

I got an encounter with her priests later,they were going to curse me and i was all "meh do what you can,i don't care". And they cursed me,turned out that her curse is to make me younger and more attractive

Don't know if it have some late game consequences.

 

[Mortmal]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...psa_latest_patch_has_bug_that_can_lead_to_op/

Pathfinder has a VERY bad bug in the current 106 patch. everytime you reload, it reapply the stats for al your items. Save 10 times with a shield of +2 DR and now you have +20 DR...

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Anyone wanna talk about the Lamashtu quest? That one was interesting. I presume

Spoiler

if you let the priestess help the pregnant woman the baby will come out as a complete abomination?

As Somone who thinks it is ethical to abort extremely handicapped people that was a no brainer.

That child/monster would have a terrible life and I would probably have to kill it later anyway.

WAS it a monster though?

I decided to kick the priestess out and

Spoiler

I got an encounter with her priests later,they were going to curse me and i was all "meh do what you can,i don't care". And they cursed me,turned out that her curse is to make me younger and more attractive

Don't know if it have some late game consequences.

One man's curse is another man's blessing.

 

[Jarpie]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...psa_latest_patch_has_bug_that_can_lead_to_op/

Pathfinder has a VERY bad bug in the current 106 patch. everytime you reload, it reapply the stats for al your items. Save 10 times with a shield of +2 DR and now you have +20 DR...

The temporary fix is obviously to take off the stuff, but it's a hassle, will probably get another hotfix on monday which fixes that but introduces new bugs.

 

[fantadomat]

do you guys actually play this game or just pretend to play it?

Most people here actually don't. They are going for all those Kool Kodex Kredits.

 

[Luckmann]

I'm actually fine with Weapon Focus retraining, but that's largely because I think that any reasonable DM would allow you to do that if your character puts in some effort, meaning that it doesn't entail "respeccing" in the modernist game way, but rather as another facet of the character's advancement. In 3.5, i thin Unearther Arcana or Player's Handbook 2 has suggested guidelines for changing feats, but it is rather restrictive.

The problem with the specialization feats in 3.5+ is they are too narrow. I've house-ruled them to be class specializations (swords, polearms, bows,...) instead. It makes more sense imo and the DM has more freedom with items. There is no respec in my games.

Yeah, I agree, but that's the sort of thing you can argue in a PnP that could be hard to arbitrate in a CRPG. Me, personally, if I were a GM, if someone is focused/specialized with, say, Longswords, as long as they can argue that something handles a lot like a Longsword, they'd get their bonuses. The element of arbitration is absent in CRPG:s, making it a bit more tricky.

One way it could be handled well in a CRPG environment would be if proficiencies were descriptive in nature, and each weapon type would be tagged with keywords referencing a type of specialization, meaning that someone could specialize in "farming implements" or "pointy sticks", and a pitchhfork would carry the keywords of both, allowing you to qualify for using pitchforks with either. Just spitballing, I realize that the example sounds retarded, but as a system, I think it could work well.

Another idea would be that increasing specificity could be a nice idea. As in first you have proficiencies, which would be very general, applying to a wide variety of weapons and groups, such as "Martial", and then you choose a focus, focusing you on, say, "Swords", but then if you Specialize, you specialize in Longsword, etc., perhaps with a minor bonus for other swords.

 

[Shadenuat]

Let's see... I'll be a sword and board Fighter with high AC through the first part of the game. The fights would be boring, but since the enemy can't hit me, I am assured of a win, basically.

Then I will respec into a Power attacking, Greatsword wielding Barbarian, because in the low-mid levels, hitting things really, REALLY hard will end things faster and minimise the damage taken.

Then, I will respec into a Wizard at the mid-levels, because, dude, have you seen the power curve difference at this stage???

Yeah. That is totally how a cRPG game should be played.

Spoiler

Great, I wake up have coffee and for the lack of options have to brofist Cael. Just great day start hrrrh.

 

[fantadomat]

Wait no good long swords in game? Someone masochistic enough to play chapter IV-V can confirm that? I did found tons of exotic shit +1 like estoc, rapier, dueling sword and some shit I did not even knew existed but also Longsword +1 in ancient tomb and Great sword +1 in Socomore tree. Multiple bro fists for Comrade Luckmann the sad history of 2000s should teach you that if you allow streamlining the devs will change the way the games are made and embrace the ((( ))) for all those sweet shekels from console peasants. Commissar planed accordingly and even added epic beard for those three months campaigning in wilds before hand and took difficulty notch down when realized that those Owlcat devs are such trolls to not even make two chars who mock SJW's stronk womyn trope but also gave them both useless traits, after meeting Rognar can see that all those fear about game being SJW with him and Loli mocking the Snowflake Val about her whining how terrible her life as spoiled noble brat was.

I found a lot of longswords and great swords that give +x and some elemental damage. Maybe it is random or you are not exploring enough. Also buy shit from the traders even if it looks expensive. Money is easy to come bay after selling all that +1 vendor trash. I am happy at weapon diversity in the game,it is not deadfire with its 30 swords and 1 axe. Every weapon type has its good weapons,it is