KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Serus]

The answer to all of those are also irrelevant to the discussion.

Then I can safely consider your opinion irrelevant.

A game not being properly beta tested IS irrelevant to an argument about its design though. So yes, it is irrelevant to the discussion.

Choices and Consequences bitches.

Retraining already exists in Pathfinder.

Retraining, of some feats (but not others) at a COST in time and money as a game mechanic. Not a magic button called "respec".

 

[Cael]

They buy it based on whether the game is good or not, and respec would objectively make it worse.

Is your game worse because you can fix a character built around thrown weapons or spears?
Is your game worse because several spells are in the wrong school, and you now you can't cast them?
Is your game worse because you got +120401 to Hit and Damage, and want to fix it? (This is a real bug)
Is your game worse because you are having more fun with respec than without it?

The answer to all of these is "No."

Let us examine them one by one.

Is your game worse because you can fix a character built around thrown weapons or spears?
You chose to build your character around thrown weapons or spears. You. Not anyone else. Therefore, in other words, you fucked up. Congrats! Welcome to the human race! Fucking up is what we are experts at. But here is the thing: Well adjusted, mature human beings accept responsibility for their fuck-ups. They live with their fuck-ups. They don't throw a temper tantrum and demand that that everyone else pay to fix their fuck-ups. They don't blame everyone else and insist on collective guilt and that everyone else pay reparations for their fuck-ups. You fucked up making a thrown weapon or spear character. Take ownership for your fuck-up and live with it, motherfucking basement dwelling shithead! So, yes, respec shouldn't be allowed for this reason.

Is your game worse because several spells are in the wrong school, and you now you can't cast them?
If you are saying that the spells are put in the wrong schools because of a developer mistake, then yes, respec shouldn't be allowed. Get the developers to fix their mistake. Stop enabling incompetence, fool!

Is your game worse because you got +120401 to Hit and Damage, and want to fix it? (This is a real bug)
See the second question above.

Is your game worse because you are having more fun with respec than without it?
Go play storymode, then, dramafag.

 

[Luckmann]

The answer to all of those are also irrelevant to the discussion.

Then I can safely consider your opinion irrelevant.

You lot is absolutely fucking uneducatable. Literally nothing you said has anything to do with the discussion, as has been settled earlier. It's like every last one of you respec-niggers is completely fucking unable to grasp anything that goes beyond your own immediate wants and needs. It is not about you being able to work around completely separate flaws of the game, it's about the introduction of mechanics that changes the assumptions of the game and impacts it's design.

Not that you'll understand, because talking to any of you is about as productive as talking to a fucking wall, and best-case scenario you either say something that's irrelevant to anything that's been discussed or you engineer a meaningless strawman. You're all absolute fucking potatos.

 

[Yosharian]

It's better to design around making your character decisions matter, rather than respec... However, if you're gonna throw in retarded bugs like Bloodline abilities that don't even do anything, and depart from the source material so much that even Pathfinder vets are confused...

Well, I still don't think respec is a good idea, but I can understand someone being frustrated that they picked a feat that doesn't even work properly.

For example, the Madness domain has an ability that doesn't even do anything at the moment. You literally click and your character just stands there and then looks up like 'what do??'.

But yeah, respec isn't really the answer. Feat retraining (at cost) could be reasonable, since it's in Pathfinder PnP anyway.

The problem with respec is that it allows you to get through low-level content with one set of choices, then respec to different choices to tackle high-level content.

 

[Raghar]

For all those people who want to "wait a month" - I strongly suggest not to have high expectations for what will be done to the game in just one month. IF the devs keep working on it then maybe, and I repeat - maybe, in half a year it will be mostly cleared of the big bugs. In a month they wont be able to even clear the kitchen and they'll probably bring several new varieties of bugs to the house as well in the process.

What nationality are developers?

 

[Cael]

For example, the Madness domain has an ability that doesn't even do anything at the moment. You literally click and your character just stands there and then looks up like 'what do??'.

Missed opportunity there. I'd make it so that when something like that happens, the temporary hotfix (until I can get that bug fixed or the ability to do what it should be doing) would be an anvil dropping out of the sky and whacking your guy on the head. I mean, come on! It's the Madness domain!

 

[Risewild]

Choices and Consequences bitches.

Retraining already exists in Pathfinder.

And it also takes a lot of time where your character can't do pretty much anything except focus on retraining, since this game has time limits I can already see people complain about how they lost the game because they only retrained their character 2 or 3 times and run out of time .

 

[Incendax]

A game not being properly beta tested IS irrelevant to an argument about its design though. So yes, it is irrelevant to the discussion.

No amount of bug fixing will ever address all the issues that Respec could address. But the most important reason is because Respec is fun.

Retraining, of some feats (but not others) at a COST in time and money as a game mechanic. Not a magic button called "respec".

You can retrain entire levels, spells, feats, and more in Pathfinder. Also, I have no problem with the option costing time and money as a game mechanic.

You chose to build your character around thrown weapons or spears. You. Not anyone else. Therefore, in other words, you fucked up. Congrats! Welcome to the human race! Fucking up is what we are experts at. But here is the thing: Well adjusted, mature human beings accept responsibility for their fuck-ups. They live with their fuck-ups. They don't throw a temper tantrum and demand that that everyone else pay to fix their fuck-ups. They don't blame everyone else and insist on collective guilt and that everyone else pay reparations for their fuck-ups. You fucked up making a thrown weapon or spear character. Take ownership for your fuck-up and live with it, motherfucking basement dwelling shithead! So, yes, respec shouldn't be allowed for this reason.

No. A large number of mistakes made in real life can be repaired and done correctly the second (or third, or fourth) time around. This is a complete red herring.

If you are saying that the spells are put in the wrong schools because of a developer mistake, then yes, respec shouldn't be allowed. Get the developers to fix their mistake. Stop enabling incompetence, fool!

Do you know if they will ever fix it? Respec would allow you to work around it

Go play storymode, then, dramafag.

It's not an issue of difficulty. It's an issue of fun.

 

[Yosharian]

For example, the Madness domain has an ability that doesn't even do anything at the moment. You literally click and your character just stands there and then looks up like 'what do??'.

Missed opportunity there. I'd make it so that when something like that happens, the temporary hotfix (until I can get that bug fixed or the ability to do what it should be doing) would be an anvil dropping out of the sky and whacking your guy on the head. I mean, come on! It's the Madness domain!

That should just happen at any time, if you take that domain.

 

[Luckmann]

It's better to design around making your character decisions matter, rather than respec... However, if you're gonna throw in retarded bugs like Bloodline abilities that don't even do anything, and depart from the source material so much that even Pathfinder vets are confused...

Well, I still don't think respec is a good idea, but I can understand someone being frustrated that they picked a feat that doesn't even work properly.

For example, the Madness domain has an ability that doesn't even do anything at the moment. You literally click and your character just stands there and then looks up like 'what do??'.

But yeah, respec isn't really the answer. Feat retraining (at cost) could be reasonable, since it's in Pathfinder PnP anyway.

You know what's actually missing from this game, especially since it's so fucking bugged?

The developer console.

I have no idea what they were thinking, removing that in a game that absolutely could've used one just for fixing issues such as starting/stopping quests, teleporting the party, adding/removing ability scores/skills/feats for testing purposes, etc., etc., etc.

 

[Cael]

Choices and Consequences bitches.

Retraining already exists in Pathfinder.

And it also takes a lot of time where your character can't do pretty much anything except focus on retraining, since this game has time limits I can already see people complain about how hey lost the game because they only retrained their character 2 or 3 times and run out of time .

You know, that would actually be a good thing to add in. More ways players can hang themselves is total

 

[ArchAngel]

Nice, another bug. This one is somewhat ruining my experience. I made a Thassalonian Wizard Necromancer so I get more spell slots. That one works like 3.5e specialist that it completely forbids two other schools from casting or using scrolls/wands with spells from those schools.
But the bug is that it also does not let you use any scrolls or wands lol, no matter what school

Any suggestions which combination of classes would be best Necro?

I was even thinking about making a Mystic Theurge Necro/Death Cleric. Or maybe some Eldritch Knight Necro

 

[Cael]

For example, the Madness domain has an ability that doesn't even do anything at the moment. You literally click and your character just stands there and then looks up like 'what do??'.

Missed opportunity there. I'd make it so that when something like that happens, the temporary hotfix (until I can get that bug fixed or the ability to do what it should be doing) would be an anvil dropping out of the sky and whacking your guy on the head. I mean, come on! It's the Madness domain!

That should just happen at any time, if you take that domain.

Hmm... 10% chance every time you cast a spell or use an ability of the class tied to that domain would be absolute hilarity.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

game is bugged beyond playable, most of the quests in my log can't be finished now
steam should be forced to mark this as an early access title even if the developers disagree, it's not a finished product

 

[Risewild]

game is bugged beyond playable, most of the quests in my log can't be finished now
steam should be forced to mark this as an early access title even if the developers disagree, it's not a finished product

Contact Steam and tell them that. There is no point in telling us, since we all know it is bugged as hell.

 

[Cael]

That wouldn't be fun for me.

And thus you prove Luckmann's point of you being a selfish asshole bastard. Thank you for coming.

 

[Xeon]

Luckmann, I kinda value your opinion quite a bit because across several games you were quite reasonable in arguing but you are kinda being autistic here.

I don''t understand what is design and what is not so sorry if I am mistaken here, but aren't the devs making the companions use bastard swords part of their design or some shit like that, if I am not wrong I think you are saying, that we shouldn't fuck with their design, but you go and edit your companions instead of hiring costume companions, isn't that you not adhering to their design?

----
I heard that you can request items crafted, can you request a specific thing be craftable? because I would think a lord can decide to request something made or searched for him for a cost, if its possible then what Cael said is quite reasonable, if not then its a shit argument.

Is your game worse because you can fix a character built around thrown weapons or spears?
You chose to build your character around thrown weapons or spears. You. Not anyone else. Therefore, in other words, you fucked up. Congrats! Welcome to the human race! Fucking up is what we are experts at. But here is the thing: Well adjusted, mature human beings accept responsibility for their fuck-ups..

 

[Incendax]

That wouldn't be fun for me.

And thus you prove Luckmann's point of you being a selfish asshole bastard. Thank you for coming.

You misunderstand. You think it has something to do with difficulty, and recommended that I play storymode. But I play on Hard because I enjoy it. I personally want respec because I get bored playing the same way for 30+ hours and would enjoy the opportunity to mix things up and try different builds. But respec would also be a short-term solution for several bugs, and a general increase in fun for a huge number of people (even if it costs time and money in game).

And it costs the anti-respecers nothing. They do not need to use it.

 

[Cael]

That wouldn't be fun for me.

And thus you prove Luckmann's point of you being a selfish asshole bastard. Thank you for coming.

You misunderstand. You think it has something to do with difficulty, and recommended that I play storymode. But I play on Hard because I enjoy it. I personally want respec because I get bored playing the same way for 30+ hours and would enjoy the opportunity to mix things up and try different builds. But respec would also be a short-term solution for several bugs, and a general increase in fun for a huge number of people (even if it costs time and money in game).

And it costs the anti-respecers nothing. They do not need to use it.

No. It has nothing to do with difficulty but everything to do with every last one of your posts having something to do with "What I want", "What I like (or don't)", "I get bored".

I-I-I. Me-me-me.

Selfish prick.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

That wouldn't be fun for me.

And thus you prove Luckmann's point of you being a selfish asshole bastard. Thank you for coming.

You misunderstand. You think it has something to do with difficulty, and recommended that I play storymode. But I play on Hard because I enjoy it. I personally want respec because I get bored playing the same way for 30+ hours and would enjoy the opportunity to mix things up and try different builds. But respec would also be a short-term solution for several bugs, and a general increase in fun for a huge number of people (even if it costs time and money in game).

And it costs the anti-respecers nothing. They do not need to use it.

It's quite clear their argument is that they'd be tempted to abuse it therefore the game must be free from temptations.

 

[Hobo Elf]

All this heated talk about respeccing could've been avoided had everyone just rolled up a Druid in the first place.

 

[Radech]

That wouldn't be fun for me.

And thus you prove Luckmann's point of you being a selfish asshole bastard. Thank you for coming.

You misunderstand. You think it has something to do with difficulty, and recommended that I play storymode. But I play on Hard because I enjoy it. I personally want respec because I get bored playing the same way for 30+ hours and would enjoy the opportunity to mix things up and try different builds. But respec would also be a short-term solution for several bugs, and a general increase in fun for a huge number of people (even if it costs time and money in game).

And it costs the anti-respecers nothing. They do not need to use it.

https://pathfinder.deev.io/ - used this worked fine, just remember to stash all your gear before hand - resets every character to lvl 1(or two for that rogue/mage) and allows you to start over completely on your own char

 

[hexer]

game is bugged beyond playable, most of the quests in my log can't be finished now
steam should be forced to mark this as an early access title even if the developers disagree, it's not a finished product

In which Chapter are you?
I just finished Chapter 4, the game is fucking HUGE!

 

[Cael]

That wouldn't be fun for me.

And thus you prove Luckmann's point of you being a selfish asshole bastard. Thank you for coming.

You misunderstand. You think it has something to do with difficulty, and recommended that I play storymode. But I play on Hard because I enjoy it. I personally want respec because I get bored playing the same way for 30+ hours and would enjoy the opportunity to mix things up and try different builds. But respec would also be a short-term solution for several bugs, and a general increase in fun for a huge number of people (even if it costs time and money in game).

And it costs the anti-respecers nothing. They do not need to use it.

It's quite clear their argument is that they'd be tempted to abuse it therefore the game must be free from temptations.

It is quite clear that you suffer from reading comprehension, especially when Luckmann has iterated why it is a bad idea several times now.

I pity your DM. Having to deal with a immature brat who wants to change his character's entire being ad hoc and instantly half-way through a campaign is not something I'd wish on anyone.

 

[Risewild]

And it costs the anti-respecers nothing. They do not need to use it.

But it does cost... If you could respec in the game, it would turn skill/attribute checks in game useless, since anyone could play for a bit, see which ones the game will throw at you, reload and respec.
Now, the devs wouldn't want this to happen, so they would have to implement a way of deal with this, so they would have to come up with some complicated way to prevent it (wasting time and work to implement) or they would just think "what's the point? Let's get rid of the checks instead." and change the game to be worse by removing a good thing.