KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Neanderthal]

Just so long as every class has unique content designed for it, and isn't sawyered to be exactly like all others then I'm fine with respec for those who don't want to play by rules of a game.

I'll just respec by playing another class in another playthrough though.

Make respec paid dlc for those who want to buy it, problem solved.

 

[111111111]

I'm pretty sure that they were running out of money to pay their employees(smol Indie companie) so they decided to release the game early.

This way they can now feed all their babushkas on their potato farm.

 

[Cael]

Dear "anti-respec" people, sorry for interrupting your bowel of insults towards people who want respec system, but all your arguments based only on YOUR preferences in games, not actual facts. So right now you trying to force people play like YOU want and call anyone with different taste a retard (while retardation have nothing to do with different opinion). In my opinion truly good game can't be ruined by respec mechanic, because:
1) respec mechanic is a choice, so if you don't want it - don't use it
2) properly balanced game can be fun for any class with normal distribution of stats, so respec can't influence on anything.

Choice is always good, only slaves can't choosing. Respec => more choice => good.
Although I prefer planning my play style beforehand (so I will be able to play without respecing anything through whole game) I can understand people who want respecc, since game bugged as hell with different rules that original PnP, so planning a bit impossible at the moment.

Definitely not,

I don't know about depth, but this

The problem with respec is that it allows you to get through low-level content with one set of choices, then respec to different choices to tackle high-level content.

is most weird argument that I heard today. Because if stats that allow you tackle high lievel content does not allow you to leave prologue - game have stupid design. I mean, who the fuck needs separate build for start part of game?

WRONG, boy! Our arguments is based on how the game is designed, both cRPG and PnP. There is no respec in either game. Deal with it or play another game.

Now, fuck off.

 

[Serus]

One side advocates that options are a bad thing. The other side advocates that options are a good thing.

The fact that you are not even willing to even make an effort to understand the opposite position and you keep reverting to making retarded strawmen really only speaks about yourself and nothing else.

If you think about it, it's YOU who doesn't need the respec option - you already have it. An option to use editing tools that have been already made for the game to do just that.
On the other hand once the DEVELOPERS include it in the game thus making a design decision that influences how the whole game plays they will have to take it into account in every other decision they make (and there is still a ton of balancing plus the DLCs not to mention their future games). Which means that it's not about just adding an option that can be ignored as people claim. It cannot be ignored because it will inevitably influence the whole game (not to mention even more so all their future games, since once you do it, fans will expect it).

I already explained it once in BT4 thread on the example of permadeath games vs free saving games. If you ever played roguelikes or similar games then You know that the former aren't simply the latter games minus the "save anytime" option. Good permadeath games are designed and play very differently than good save anytime games. And even if you add an option to play "ironman" to a save anytime game (which some games do) or vice versa, it doesn't magically change how they are designed. Because the whole game is made with different set of assumptions of how it is supposed to be played in mind.

In short: major design decisions matter and influence games in major ways.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Dear "anti-respec" people, sorry for interrupting your bowel of insults towards people who want respec system, but all your arguments based only on YOUR preferences in games, not actual facts. So right now you trying to force people play like YOU want and call anyone with different taste a retard (while retardation have nothing to do with different opinion). In my opinion truly good game can't be ruined by respec mechanic, because:
1) respec mechanic is a choice, so if you don't want it - don't use it
2) properly balanced game can be fun for any class with normal distribution of stats, so respec can't influence on anything.

Choice is always good, only slaves can't choosing. Respec => more choice => good.
Although I prefer planning my play style beforehand (so I will be able to play without respecing anything through whole game) I can understand people who want respecc, since game bugged as hell with different rules that original PnP, so planning a bit impossible at the moment.

Definitely not,

I don't know about depth, but this

The problem with respec is that it allows you to get through low-level content with one set of choices, then respec to different choices to tackle high-level content.

is most weird argument that I heard today. Because if stats that allow you tackle high lievel content does not allow you to leave prologue - game have stupid design. I mean, who the fuck needs separate build for start part of game?

WRONG, boy! Our arguments is based on how the game is designed, both cRPG and PnP. There is no respec in either game. Deal with it or play another game.

Now, fuck off.

In the PnP all the feats are actually implemented and more than 3-4 classes properly work.

 

[Incendax]

It's versatile, but also restricted and elaborated on heavily and not advised until you have more money than a god. And you are utterly useless for literally months for a full respec at mid to high levels. You also can't take a fighter to a wizard, you can however take a fighter to a magus, and then wait a bunch of time, and take a magus to a wizard.

Having more money than god, and being able to burn months is literally a thing that happens in this game. More so than an actual game of Pathfinder with your friends. There are timers with dire consequences, of course, but if you are ahead of the curve then you can find yourself with weeks or even a month or more to burn and hundreds of thousands of gold in your pocket.

 

[Serus]

Dear "anti-respec" people, sorry for interrupting your bowel of insults towards people who want respec system, but all your arguments based only on YOUR preferences in games, not actual facts. So right now you trying to force people play like YOU want and call anyone with different taste a retard (while retardation have nothing to do with different opinion). In my opinion truly good game can't be ruined by respec mechanic, because:
1) respec mechanic is a choice, so if you don't want it - don't use it
2) properly balanced game can be fun for any class with normal distribution of stats, so respec can't influence on anything.

Choice is always good, only slaves can't choosing. Respec => more choice => good.
Although I prefer planning my play style beforehand (so I will be able to play without respecing anything through whole game) I can understand people who want respecc, since game bugged as hell with different rules that original PnP, so planning a bit impossible at the moment.

Definitely not,

I don't know about depth, but this

The problem with respec is that it allows you to get through low-level content with one set of choices, then respec to different choices to tackle high-level content.

is most weird argument that I heard today. Because if stats that allow you tackle high lievel content does not allow you to leave prologue - game have stupid design. I mean, who the fuck needs separate build for start part of game?

WRONG, boy! Our arguments is based on how the game is designed, both cRPG and PnP. There is no respec in either game. Deal with it or play another game.

Now, fuck off.

In the PnP all the feats are actually implemented and more than 3-4 classes properly work.

Another "the game wasn't properly beta tested so let's change the design of the game"...

 

[roll-a-die]

It's versatile, but also restricted and elaborated on heavily and not advised until you have more money than a god. And you are utterly useless for literally months for a full respec at mid to high levels. You also can't take a fighter to a wizard, you can however take a fighter to a magus, and then wait a bunch of time, and take a magus to a wizard.

Having more money than god, and being able to burn months is literally a thing that happens in this game. More so than an actual game of Pathfinder with your friends. There are timers with dire consequences, of course, but if you are ahead of the curve then you can find yourself with weeks or even a month or more to burn and hundreds of thousands of gold in your pocket.

Con-grat-u-lations, now find a teacher out in the badlands.

 

[Darth Roxor]

people who want respec in rpgs are communists

 

[Cael]

Dear "anti-respec" people, sorry for interrupting your bowel of insults towards people who want respec system, but all your arguments based only on YOUR preferences in games, not actual facts. So right now you trying to force people play like YOU want and call anyone with different taste a retard (while retardation have nothing to do with different opinion). In my opinion truly good game can't be ruined by respec mechanic, because:
1) respec mechanic is a choice, so if you don't want it - don't use it
2) properly balanced game can be fun for any class with normal distribution of stats, so respec can't influence on anything.

Choice is always good, only slaves can't choosing. Respec => more choice => good.
Although I prefer planning my play style beforehand (so I will be able to play without respecing anything through whole game) I can understand people who want respecc, since game bugged as hell with different rules that original PnP, so planning a bit impossible at the moment.

Definitely not,

I don't know about depth, but this

The problem with respec is that it allows you to get through low-level content with one set of choices, then respec to different choices to tackle high-level content.

is most weird argument that I heard today. Because if stats that allow you tackle high lievel content does not allow you to leave prologue - game have stupid design. I mean, who the fuck needs separate build for start part of game?

WRONG, boy! Our arguments is based on how the game is designed, both cRPG and PnP. There is no respec in either game. Deal with it or play another game.

Now, fuck off.

In the PnP all the feats are actually implemented and more than 3-4 classes properly work.

That is not an excuse for adding respec to the game. That is moving goalposts and strawmanning. You and your sock puppet have been doing that for the last 3-5 pages.

Get fucked. No respec.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Weird how the people who argue "muh PnP" are now against the Pathfinder PnP which has retraining in it

 

[Fenix]

i just recently found out people will actually pay money for those cards steam gives you. I could not believe it, and have no idea why somebody would do that but I sold all my cards for like 9 dollars until it said I had sold so many I had to fill out some form (tax form? WTF?) and I still have like 150 cards left or something. What in the world do people do with them? They are digital.

Same here. Only I have no idea how to sell them, or I would sold them already, free dollazzz mmm....

Nah. He is just a loser at life who abuses his power here because he gets bullied hard anywhere else he goes (still laughing at how MCA absolutely ICE BURNT him) and this is his form of revenge against the world.

Don't you say so, in reality he is a tall blond man, of nordic type, green eyed with athletic body...

Spoiler

 

[Incendax]

The fact that you are not even willing to even make an effort to understand the opposite position and you keep reverting to making retarded strawmen really only speaks about yourself and nothing else.

Understanding is not the same as agreeing. I understand your position, but do not consider it valid or reasonable (just like you probably do not consider my own position valid or reasonable). I see the conclusions you are making, but do not arrive at the same conclusions when I do the same math. This is probably due to different life experiences and different values in the games we play.

But, the short version is: I think you're wrong. But you seem like a decent person!

 

[Serus]

Weird how the people who argue "muh PnP" are now against the Pathfinder PnP which has retraining in it

Retrainig as a game mechanic - at a cost and not allowing to retrain all. Not a free "respec all" button.

 

[RegionalHobo]

fuck the damage bug with save/load ppl said happened to me.

i'll have to stop playing because my ranger is doing 50-70 dmg in one arrow thanks to this garbage. the eternal cycle of hotfixes continue

edit : turns out it s itens with non standard bonuses, like the amulet of the hunt or the troll bow. guess i'll have to play my monk and get rid of them until the patch lmao

 

[Cael]

Weird how the people who argue "muh PnP" are now against the Pathfinder PnP which has retraining in it

Trying to conflate retraining and respec is another strawman. Worse, it is deceitful. Fucking millenial.

 

[Risewild]

Weird how the people who argue "muh PnP" are now against the Pathfinder PnP which has retraining in it

Weird how I made a post talking about the downsides of implementing that in a computer game and was totally ignored.

I guess when people can't argue with my words...

 

[Cael]

i just recently found out people will actually pay money for those cards steam gives you. I could not believe it, and have no idea why somebody would do that but I sold all my cards for like 9 dollars until it said I had sold so many I had to fill out some form (tax form? WTF?) and I still have like 150 cards left or something. What in the world do people do with them? They are digital.

Same here. Only I have no idea how to sell them, or I would sold them already, free dollazzz mmm....

Nah. He is just a loser at life who abuses his power here because he gets bullied hard anywhere else he goes (still laughing at how MCA absolutely ICE BURNT him) and this is his form of revenge against the world.

Don't you say so, in reality he is a tall blond man, of nordic type, green eyed with athletic body...

Spoiler

Pffftttt...... Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Stop it! I am going to fall off my chair here! Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[111111111]

[QUOTEFucking millenial.

Just castrate yourself you fucking old ass shitter. You sound like a massive cocksucking republic redneck that fucks his own sister.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Good game design makes respec obsolete by your own arguments. The lack of respec forces the player to make a choice as to how to approach the game from beginning to end, thus every choice is relevant. And as to the unfamiliarity of a player with a system, that's part of its charm - you fuck up with a particular build, realize your mistakes and then either adjust or try a different build altogether.

My arguments does not make respec absolute since my arguments targeted people, who trying to read notations to people "how they should play a game", my point was that if respec doesn't harm you physically - allow people use it as they want.
Your explanations about how choices important work only in ideal game where all spells useful and skills work like in rule book (which impossible even in PnP, thats why some people making home brew ruleset), but more realistic situation would be:
"Player create character with stats how he imagining character, after 30 hours in game he realizing something wrong, check forums and read that some spells/skills does not work as they logical should or just useless, trying to re-roll character (because cheating can broke achievements and game in general), gets tired playing same prologue over and over again and waiting for patches or event forget about game."

 

[Incendax]

Retrainig as a game mechanic - at a cost and not allowing to retrain all. Not a free "respec all" button.

I have no problem at all with Respec costing time and money as a game mechanic.

Con-grat-u-lations, now find a teacher out in the badlands.

How about I find a teacher in Oleg's Trading Post or my Capital? There are several appropriate NPCs.

 

[hexer]

Is it just me or are the Hellknights blatant copies of Planescape's Mercykillers?

 

[Neanderthal]

[QUOTEFucking millenial.

Just castrate yourself you fucking old ass shitter. You sound like a massive cocksucking republic redneck that fucks his own sister.

Who'd fuck your mum then eh?

 

[Luckmann]

This is what happens when you participate in the discussions on the Steam forum and is critical of the game. They take one of your random posts and permanently ban you, giving no reason:

Apparently they don't appreciate community participation/discussion or bug reports.

 

[bataille]

Yeah, the ability to reset your character really cheapens the whole experience. Metagame tools to respec are fine, though, like a cheat engine, dev console, or something--for those who are willing to go an extra mile to correct a grave mistake they've made. But having in-game means of resetting has too many connotations that just remind you that you're in a theme park and can wear another skin if the old one has become too much of an inconvenience for you.

Instead of implementing trainers in the game, the owlcats should get it together, fix the broken feats and classes, and then enable the console with a command to reset level to 1--without flavour text, rigorous retraining, or any in-game justification. Again, as I've said, I think that contextualizing this thing would add nothing but detract too much.