KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Thonius]

I remember that I found a pick with extra damage to golem on my previous roll. But I cannot find it now. Where it is huh?

 

[ga♥]

Really, ch2 is already bugged? Maybe I should replay ch1 again with a bunch of other builds to wait for more patches.

Some nasty bugs that break some quests... but it's still playable.
I wouldn't wait if I were you... also because I have nothing to play and the game is legit good

 

[Andnjord]

Reports from the tomb:

Only the resident landlord and that one encounter locked behind a 32 Athletics check left to do. Everyone is fully rested and we still have 6 camping supplies (so that's two encounters fully rested). I do love it when I finish a dungeon feeling like I've rested optimally.

Couple of things:

That optional encounter is made up of

Spoiler

three freaking demons! One alone was hard enough, but three of them? Oh boy, good thing I have Death Ward on everyone this time

The resident landlord is a

Spoiler

only open at your peril...

Spoiler

goddamn cyclop Lich and I haven't destroyed it's phylactery yet. I have a bad feeling about it... surely that Raven is the phylactery, right? (please don't answer that question, I want to find out for myself)

 

[vonAchdorf]

A bit late, I know, but here's a German mainstream review (86%):

 

[Ziggy]

tomb

Spoiler

for me those soul eaters were easily the hardest encounter there, while vordekai went down on the first try. idk

 

[Reinhardt]

That optional encounter

Yeah, it was cool battle. Even when prebuffed.

 

[Andnjord]

That optional encounter

Yeah, it was cool battle. Even when prebuffed.

Not asking for specifics, but is there some worthwhile loot in there?

 

[saeci]

After finishing chapter 1 I can ay that the game made a very good impression so far. This is the DnD game I had to wait for for a decade.

I think I didn't run into any bugs so far, safe for one - maybe - which is: when I freed the last companion (Harrim) in the kobold mines area he did appear at the camp afterwards but I could never add him to the party nor speak to him. Is this normal?

You'll get him once you hit Ch2. This is also when you'll start meeting a few bugs.

Really, ch2 is already bugged? Maybe I should replay ch1 again with a bunch of other builds to wait for more patches.

You're fine till chapter 4 with bugs, just don't go past that cause it gets wild.

 

[hexer]

Regarding Chapter 7 -

Spoiler

How did you find dealing with the Wild Hunt Scouts in Nyrissa's palace? They have a paralysis aura with a high DC Will save that turns every battle into a huge chore. Free action doesn't seem to work either.

There were lots and lots of reloads there...
but I remember taking them out with Phantasmal Killers, Greater Invisibility, cold iron weapons and luring them to attack Valerie who had huge AC while I laid waste from safe distance.

 

[Serus]

Also, i know someone already mentioned this, but Owlcat can suck it for making resurrect scrolls 6k gold when i can spend about half as much to just make a new character.

This makes sense for multiple reasons.

1) Verisimilitude-wise, it should cost more to bring back someone from the dead than it would to simply hire a replacement
2) It should cost more to bring back someone you've become attached to (granted this makes less sense if the one who dies is a mercenary you can replicate exactly).

The cost to hire a new adventurer goes way up as you level.

If I understand it correctly the cost of raising dead remains constant while new mercenaries' costs are rising with every level which means rising dead becomes a lot cheaper very quickly.

This is because mercs auto level to your current level.

So you are level 20? Then what is the cost to hire one of the best adventurers in the world?

It would change all dynamics of how danger, risk, bravery and death itself is perceived (at least for the wealthy people who can afford it) and in consequences would transform the whole culture in massive ways. I wonder, are there even fantasy books that attempted to address this?

Overlord (books) address this by level draining on resurrect and disintegrating anyone whose level is too low. Also, the Temple guilds basically unionized healing and resurrection, so it can't be done for free and it would take so many decades of study, luck etc to even get to a high enough level to cast resurrection magic that it's very rare. (6th tier magic is considered the highest a human can master and even then, you may have to artificially extend your life just to do it.)

But 6000k gold is an insane amount in a fantasy setting and most commoners couldn't afford it anyway.

In those books as you described it, it would seem it's a lot rarer and not really available commercially like in some DnD settings (at least in games). And yes, making it extremely rare and potentially only available to only the most powerful people at the very top, like rulers, etc... and their equals makes it a lot less problematic and doesn't have to lead to an inconsistent setting.
However that's not the case here. Most commoners - no, of curse they wouldn't be able to afford it. That's why I wrote "wealthy" people. The price isn't "insane" in Kingmaker. A non-magical full plate (granted a costly item but still a mundane utility item) costs 1,5k. A lighter good metal armor, hundreds. A combat horse for a knight 300 according to manual. And so on. Assuming a quasi medieval society, a knight with a squire or two and a few people to accompany, which would constitute a modest retinue, is already a cost in several thousands to equip and maintain through just one military campaign. Which means that already a wealthy knight (or a wealthy merchant) could potentially afford it. That obviously constitutes only a small % of the society but it's also the economical and political elite of said society. And the consequence is that for them accidental/premature death wouldn't be an issue as it is in real world. Which gets us back the point of the culture of said society being inevitably massively influenced by this fact. I can see such society having a lot wider gap between its political and economic elites and everyone else than in reality. The elites would be practically immune to accidental deaths or common sickness while everyone else would have to live "normally". Think about that.
Or think about the meaning of risk or bravery in such world? All the great epic heroes of such culture fighting knowing that they can be resurrected in case of failure - at least most of the time. As long as they are famous or wealthy enough. Think Leonidas - a heroic death with his 300 Spartans... ? Think again, he's back! Maybe even the polis from its treasury could afford the resurrection of his soldiers as well, or at least the best of them.

 

[Fenix]

Say hallo to my little frend!

Spoiler

 

[fantadomat]

Say hallo to my little frend!

Spoiler

At least your people won't go hungry.

 

[Zero Credibility]

They might get crushed to death though.

 

[Hamster]

 

[Andnjord]

Now THAT's how Paladins smite evil! With 112 damage attacks from their +5 Keen (from Divine Weapon Bond) Greatswords!

Gawd I love this game!

 

[Luckmann]

It could be for balance reasons - Web is already too OP (I'm not sure how I'd do baron and wererats without it), and grease can be spammed fairly early and has no real downsides. And Conjuration is already the most useful and overpowered school of magic, so it was not so unwarranted as it can be thought. Of course, considering supreme coding skills of the owlcats (can't fix settings bug for 3 weeks since release), it might be just as well that they could not implement it (although how it'd be technically different from web or glitterdust, I'm not sure)

If they consider Grease overpowered, they could simply adjust it to fit the format. It's annoying that they seem reluctant to do such things, because they are effectively our DM, and arbitration and making the ruleset work for a given game is precisely the job of a DM.

 

[Drudkh]

Well they simulated PnP perfectly. Rarely players want to give a big bunch of their hard earned money to ress a dead player when that player can make a free new character and sometimes even inherit the gear of the dead one

lol, yes, but like i mentioned, anything to sap more of my time on menial shit; so now i gotta go waste time in menus remaking the build i liked. I love and hate this game at the same time. I suppose that's how i know it's good?

 

[cw8]

Taking revenge the necromantic way, turn AI off and watch the butchering from a distance:

Level 20 be like:

 

[Reinhardt]

Also, i know someone already mentioned this, but Owlcat can suck it for making resurrect scrolls 6k gold when i can spend about half as much to just make a new character.

This makes sense for multiple reasons.

1) Verisimilitude-wise, it should cost more to bring back someone from the dead than it would to simply hire a replacement
2) It should cost more to bring back someone you've become attached to (granted this makes less sense if the one who dies is a mercenary you can replicate exactly).

The cost to hire a new adventurer goes way up as you level.

If I understand it correctly the cost of raising dead remains constant while new mercenaries' costs are rising with every level which means rising dead becomes a lot cheaper very quickly.

This is because mercs auto level to your current level.

So you are level 20? Then what is the cost to hire one of the best adventurers in the world?

It would change all dynamics of how danger, risk, bravery and death itself is perceived (at least for the wealthy people who can afford it) and in consequences would transform the whole culture in massive ways. I wonder, are there even fantasy books that attempted to address this?

Overlord (books) address this by level draining on resurrect and disintegrating anyone whose level is too low. Also, the Temple guilds basically unionized healing and resurrection, so it can't be done for free and it would take so many decades of study, luck etc to even get to a high enough level to cast resurrection magic that it's very rare. (6th tier magic is considered the highest a human can master and even then, you may have to artificially extend your life just to do it.)

But 6000k gold is an insane amount in a fantasy setting and most commoners couldn't afford it anyway.

In those books as you described it, it would seem it's a lot rarer and not really available commercially like in some DnD settings (at least in games). And yes, making it extremely rare and potentially only available to only the most powerful people at the very top, like rulers, etc... and their equals makes it a lot less problematic and doesn't have to lead to an inconsistent setting.
However that's not the case here. Most commoners - no, of curse they wouldn't be able to afford it. That's why I wrote "wealthy" people. The price isn't "insane" in Kingmaker. A non-magical full plate (granted a costly item but still a mundane utility item) costs 1,5k. A lighter good metal armor, hundreds. A combat horse for a knight 300 according to manual. And so on. Assuming a quasi medieval society, a knight with a squire or two and a few people to accompany, which would constitute a modest retinue, is already a cost in several thousands to equip and maintain through just one military campaign. Which means that already a wealthy knight (or a wealthy merchant) could potentially afford it. That obviously constitutes only a small % of the society but it's also the economical and political elite of said society. And the consequence is that for them accidental/premature death wouldn't be an issue as it is in real world. Which gets us back the point of the culture of said society being inevitably massively influenced by this fact. I can see such society having a lot wider gap between its political and economic elites and everyone else than in reality. The elites would be practically immune to accidental deaths or common sickness while everyone else would have to live "normally". Think about that.
Or think about the meaning of risk or bravery in such world? All the great epic heroes of such culture fighting knowing that they can be resurrected in case of failure - at least most of the time. As long as they are famous or wealthy enough. Think Leonidas - a heroic death with his 300 Spartans... ? Think again, he's back! Maybe even the polis from its treasury could afford the resurrection of his soldiers as well, or at least the best of them.

6000 gold if you count in bp is weekly income of your whole kingdom.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

That's why I wrote "wealthy" people.

How often could a wealthy person need it? And would they be able to survive the level drain? (In the context of Overlord, not sure about Pathfinder's Resurrection rules. Fake edit, ok I looked them up below.)
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/raise-dead/

Components V, S, M (diamond worth 5,000 gp), DF

You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.

Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell gains two permanent negative levels when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it takes 2 points of Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be raised). A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised. A spellcasting creature that doesn’t prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell.

A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current HD. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature’s equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.

A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.

That one day timer would make resurrecting a bunch of soldiers very difficult, especially if there aren't many priests capable of casting 5th level spells.

And the level drain it is similar to Overlord (as it should be since the books are based on D&D). Keep in mind that Overlord has the trope of the real-life world changing compared to the game world. People gain levels much slower etc. It's probably not fair to compare a video game world to a real society directly as many changes were made to the already fantastical PnP ruleset just to make it more playable for normies.

In a real society, far fewer people would ever achieve the capacity to cast 5th/6th tier spells in order to cast this. Let alone 7th/8th tier in order to cast the much more powerful high level version:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/resurrection/

This spell functions like raise dead, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature.

The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. (The remains of a creature hit by a disintegrate spell count as a small portion of its body.) The creature can have been dead no longer than 10 years per caster level.

Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of prepared spells. The subject of the spell gains one permanent negative level when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it takes 2 points of Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be resurrected).

You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected.

accidental/premature death wouldn't be an issue as it is in real world.

If you have a shitton of diamonds and mid level priests, sure. And again, provided you can survive the level drain.

 

[Luckmann]

By the way, there seems to be no reason to play a pure Magus when you can pick an Eldritch Archer instead.

No matter what the Class "schedule" suggests, an Eldritch Archer gets both Spell Combat and Ranged Spell Combat on lvl 1, and then on lvl 2 they get both Spellstrike and Ranged Spellstrike.

At first I figured that one probably overrides the other, but apparently it does not. There's zero issue with being an Eldriitch Archer and putting touch spells into your weapon.

Edit: Hahaha, oh wow. Discovered a major bug, though. If you're an Eldritch Archer with a melee weapon equipped and you try to use a spell that uses a Ranged Touch Attack.. nothing happens. It doesn't even do anything or report a failure in the log. Just.. nothing. You start telegraphing the spellcasting, there's a light, and then nothing.

Spellstrike with melee touch attacks works fine, though, provided you have a melee weapon, and ranged touch attacks work fine if you use a ranged weapon. But ranged touch attacks while wielding a melee weapon simply fizzles.

 

[Andnjord]

Reports from the tomb:

Paladins with Keen Bonded Weapon wielding that +5 Greatsword while fighting Evildoers are some serious combat monstrosities. That gal was dishing out 100+ damage per round, and that's before factoring in critical hits. Don't go around smiting evil without one kids!

Also, I got myself a new adviser, yeah!

Spoiler

Damn, I feel so evil now

 

[Jaedar]

6000 gold if you count in bp is weekly income of your whole kingdom.

Most of that BP is also a gift from Restov. Also isn't a BP 80 gold, so 6k gold is 75 BP. Is your barony super wealthy or something, because after chapter 4 my income is like 40 BP or something once I remove Restov gift and add back taxes?

Either way, raising the dead is expensive.

 

[Reinhardt]

Is your barony super wealthy or something

I said "kingdom"

 

[Serus]

That's why I wrote "wealthy" people.

How often could a wealthy person need it? And would they be able to survive the level drain? (In the context of Overlord, not sure about Pathfinder's Resurrection rules. Fake edit, ok I looked them up below.)
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/raise-dead/

Components V, S, M (diamond worth 5,000 gp), DF

You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.

Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell gains two permanent negative levels when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it takes 2 points of Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be raised). A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised. A spellcasting creature that doesn’t prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell.

A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current HD. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature’s equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.

A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.

That one day timer would make resurrecting a bunch of soldiers very difficult, especially if there aren't many priests capable of casting 5th level spells.

And the level drain it is similar to Overlord (as it should be since the books are based on D&D). Keep in mind that Overlord has the trope of the real-life world changing compared to the game world. People gain levels much slower etc. It's probably not fair to compare a video game world to a real society directly as many changes were made to the already fantastical PnP ruleset just to make it more playable for normies.

In a real society, far fewer people would ever achieve the capacity to cast 5th/6th tier spells in order to cast this. Let alone 7th/8th tier in order to cast the much more powerful high level version:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/resurrection/

This spell functions like raise dead, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature.

The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. (The remains of a creature hit by a disintegrate spell count as a small portion of its body.) The creature can have been dead no longer than 10 years per caster level.

Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of prepared spells. The subject of the spell gains one permanent negative level when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it takes 2 points of Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be resurrected).

You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected.

accidental/premature death wouldn't be an issue as it is in real world.

If you have a shitton of diamonds and mid level priests, sure. And again, provided you can survive the level drain.

Incorrect. If you have the amount of whatever currency is used in the game. And it's a lot but not as much as one might think relative to other goods. That's the point. The game already tells you what the market value is. And so do all other CRPG with the same mechanic. We already know that there must be enough of people capable of doing it (in other terms: supply) to meet the demand at this price level. Otherwise it couldn't be bought at this price. That's how economy works.
In addition, the spell works for 1 day per caster level and since a level 1 caster won't be doing it it's safely to assume it would be possible to raise several days old dead. As to requiring many priests - I've already covered that, clearly there is enough to cover the demand at the specified price range. Granted, it could be difficult to resurrect a large amount of people in one place in a short amount of time, as locally there might not be enough supply (clerics with the ability) but since common soldiers wouldn't be able to afford it anyway it's not very relevant. And lastly, if you don't have levels you lose CON, everyone has some CON .
In short, my point about raising dead available on a relatively (as in - available to the social elite) large scale stands. It doesn't make sense unless you take into account how it would influence the whole civilization.


But then - obviously - one doesn't play DnD games in high fantasy settings expecting them to "make sense". So it's just a pointless nerdy rant on my part. Sorry if I destroyed someone's illusion that it isn't the case in the process.