KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Jarpie]

Plus inquisitor gets divine power, which gives them very good bonus for ab.

 

[Van-d-all]

best role for Jaethal is

skill monkey

That, plus aggregating free teamwork feats let's her carry the team for a while (Shield Wall AC to Val, Outflank AB to flankers + Prec. Strike dmg), but aound lv10 loot starts to phase out the usefulness of those feats and skill ranks, while her wimpy spells make her less useful than dedicated DPS like NokNok.

You don't use her in addition to Val, you replace Val with Jaethal. All Val gets over Jaethal is +2 to AC because of Tower Shield and Jaethal has Judgement that gives bonus AC. Also she can buff herself with high level Shield of Faith and Divine Favor.

Early on Jet works as a connector for other chars with team feats, but later on I have enough slots to form other working pairs. As for Val, you can't really beat her in terms of pure tank (unless you make a custom char). I give her 1 lv in vivi, and then all the feats from fighter like bonus DEX allowance on armor, specializations in armor and shields, then grater specializations and so on and she pops around 45 AC. On top of that I can actually salvage her CHA using Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses, which I also have on Reg and Amiri (made into Freebooter /Ranger for team attack buffs) so essentially I first go for intimidation, and then maul everything down with sneak attacks while flat footed. Works fine given the ridiculous stat bloat on enemies.

 

[ArchAngel]

best role for Jaethal is

skill monkey

That, plus aggregating free teamwork feats let's her carry the team for a while (Shield Wall AC to Val, Outflank AB to flankers + Prec. Strike dmg), but aound lv10 loot starts to phase out the usefulness of those feats and skill ranks, while her wimpy spells make her less useful than dedicated DPS like NokNok.

You don't use her in addition to Val, you replace Val with Jaethal. All Val gets over Jaethal is +2 to AC because of Tower Shield and Jaethal has Judgement that gives bonus AC. Also she can buff herself with high level Shield of Faith and Divine Favor.

Early on Jet works as a connector for other chars with team feats, but later on I have enough slots to form other working pairs. As for Val, you can't really beat her in terms of pure tank (unless you make a custom char). I give her 1 lv in vivi, and then all the feats from fighter like bonus DEX allowance on armor, specializations in armor and shields, then grater specializations and so on and she pops around 45 AC. On top of that I can actually salvage her CHA using Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses, which I also have on Reg and Amiri (made into Freebooter /Ranger for team attack buffs) so essentially I first go for intimidation, and then maul everything down with sneak attacks while flat footed. Works fine given the ridiculous stat bloat on enemies.

You can give same feats to Jaethal (except for weapon specialization). And she gets teamwork feats for "free" that combine well with everyone and they all affect her. Jaethal also has good Cha. In the end the only real difference is +2 from tower shield but Judgement goes over that in mid levels and you get +4 to deflection with Jaethal by lvl 12.
And unlike Val, she is immune to lots of stuff and she cannot be killed by a random critical hit.

 

[Van-d-all]

best role for Jaethal is

skill monkey

That, plus aggregating free teamwork feats let's her carry the team for a while (Shield Wall AC to Val, Outflank AB to flankers + Prec. Strike dmg), but aound lv10 loot starts to phase out the usefulness of those feats and skill ranks, while her wimpy spells make her less useful than dedicated DPS like NokNok.

You don't use her in addition to Val, you replace Val with Jaethal. All Val gets over Jaethal is +2 to AC because of Tower Shield and Jaethal has Judgement that gives bonus AC. Also she can buff herself with high level Shield of Faith and Divine Favor.

Early on Jet works as a connector for other chars with team feats, but later on I have enough slots to form other working pairs. As for Val, you can't really beat her in terms of pure tank (unless you make a custom char). I give her 1 lv in vivi, and then all the feats from fighter like bonus DEX allowance on armor, specializations in armor and shields, then grater specializations and so on and she pops around 45 AC. On top of that I can actually salvage her CHA using Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses, which I also have on Reg and Amiri (made into Freebooter /Ranger for team attack buffs) so essentially I first go for intimidation, and then maul everything down with sneak attacks while flat footed. Works fine given the ridiculous stat bloat on enemies.

You can give same feats to Jaethal (except for weapon specialization). And she gets teamwork feats for "free" that combine well with everyone and they all affect her. Jaethal also has good Cha. In the end the only real difference is +2 from tower shield but Judgement goes over that in mid levels and you get +4 to deflection with Jaethal by lvl 12.
And unlike Val, she is immune to lots of stuff and she cannot be killed by a random critical hit.

Jethal won't get Armor Training nor Greater Shield focus, since she's not a fighter, plus giving her a level in vivi for mutagen and sneak attack, would further postpone her measly inquisitor spells. She has virtually half the feat slots of a fighter to go around and Shatter Defenses eats 4, counting Power Attack (except Ranger that skips Dazzling Display), and she needs lv8 to stop getting spanked by Harrim's Positive Energy (because his CHA is too shit for Selective Channel but that's another story). Also fighter's BAB makes using fight defensively AB malus a non issue. Shame Val is dumber than a goblin though, because combat expertise would surely benefit her even further.

 

[panda]

best role for Jaethal is

skill monkey

That, plus aggregating free teamwork feats let's her carry the team for a while (Shield Wall AC to Val, Outflank AB to flankers + Prec. Strike dmg), but aound lv10 loot starts to phase out the usefulness of those feats and skill ranks, while her wimpy spells make her less useful than dedicated DPS like NokNok.

You don't use her in addition to Val, you replace Val with Jaethal. All Val gets over Jaethal is +2 to AC because of Tower Shield and Jaethal has Judgement that gives bonus AC. Also she can buff herself with high level Shield of Faith and Divine Favor.

Early on Jet works as a connector for other chars with team feats, but later on I have enough slots to form other working pairs. As for Val, you can't really beat her in terms of pure tank (unless you make a custom char). I give her 1 lv in vivi, and then all the feats from fighter like bonus DEX allowance on armor, specializations in armor and shields, then grater specializations and so on and she pops around 45 AC. On top of that I can actually salvage her CHA using Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses, which I also have on Reg and Amiri (made into Freebooter /Ranger for team attack buffs) so essentially I first go for intimidation, and then maul everything down with sneak attacks while flat footed. Works fine given the ridiculous stat bloat on enemies.

You can give same feats to Jaethal (except for weapon specialization). And she gets teamwork feats for "free" that combine well with everyone and they all affect her. Jaethal also has good Cha. In the end the only real difference is +2 from tower shield but Judgement goes over that in mid levels and you get +4 to deflection with Jaethal by lvl 12.
And unlike Val, she is immune to lots of stuff and she cannot be killed by a random critical hit.

If we are talking about levels around 12 then Jaethal kit has +3 sacred bonus to AC over plain character without bonuses.
TSS kit offers potential +10 over same "clean" character at same level. And Tristian can provide +2 sacred AC to anyone anyway. Even if realistically you'll probably squeeze only +8/9(+5/6 dex, +3 tower shield) from the maximum 10, Valerie still should have at least 5 more AC than Jaethal.

 

[ArchAngel]

best role for Jaethal is

skill monkey

That, plus aggregating free teamwork feats let's her carry the team for a while (Shield Wall AC to Val, Outflank AB to flankers + Prec. Strike dmg), but aound lv10 loot starts to phase out the usefulness of those feats and skill ranks, while her wimpy spells make her less useful than dedicated DPS like NokNok.

You don't use her in addition to Val, you replace Val with Jaethal. All Val gets over Jaethal is +2 to AC because of Tower Shield and Jaethal has Judgement that gives bonus AC. Also she can buff herself with high level Shield of Faith and Divine Favor.

Early on Jet works as a connector for other chars with team feats, but later on I have enough slots to form other working pairs. As for Val, you can't really beat her in terms of pure tank (unless you make a custom char). I give her 1 lv in vivi, and then all the feats from fighter like bonus DEX allowance on armor, specializations in armor and shields, then grater specializations and so on and she pops around 45 AC. On top of that I can actually salvage her CHA using Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses, which I also have on Reg and Amiri (made into Freebooter /Ranger for team attack buffs) so essentially I first go for intimidation, and then maul everything down with sneak attacks while flat footed. Works fine given the ridiculous stat bloat on enemies.

You can give same feats to Jaethal (except for weapon specialization). And she gets teamwork feats for "free" that combine well with everyone and they all affect her. Jaethal also has good Cha. In the end the only real difference is +2 from tower shield but Judgement goes over that in mid levels and you get +4 to deflection with Jaethal by lvl 12.
And unlike Val, she is immune to lots of stuff and she cannot be killed by a random critical hit.

Jethal won't get Armor Training nor Greater Shield focus, since she's not a fighter, plus giving her a level in vivi for mutagen and sneak attack, would further postpone her measly inquisitor spells. She has virtually half the feat slots of a fighter to go around and Shatter Defenses eats 4, counting Power Attack (except Ranger that skips Dazzling Display), and she needs lv8 to stop getting spanked by Harrim's Positive Energy (because his CHA is too shit for Selective Channel but that's another story). Also fighter's BAB makes using fight defensively AB malus a non issue. Shame Val is dumber than a goblin though, because combat expertise would surely benefit her even further.

Armor training does not actually give you more AC but it does increase max Dex. At best that means that you will use Adamantine Full plate with Val while you use Mithril Full plate with Jaethal. And +1 AC from extra feat is cool but Jaethal gets Shield Wall.
And you don't need shit like Shatter Defenses when Jaethal has Bane and awesome spells and Judgements. And I used channel to heal party while Jaethal was under lvl 8 all the time and nothing happened to Jaethal.

 

[ArchAngel]

best role for Jaethal is

skill monkey

That, plus aggregating free teamwork feats let's her carry the team for a while (Shield Wall AC to Val, Outflank AB to flankers + Prec. Strike dmg), but aound lv10 loot starts to phase out the usefulness of those feats and skill ranks, while her wimpy spells make her less useful than dedicated DPS like NokNok.

You don't use her in addition to Val, you replace Val with Jaethal. All Val gets over Jaethal is +2 to AC because of Tower Shield and Jaethal has Judgement that gives bonus AC. Also she can buff herself with high level Shield of Faith and Divine Favor.

Early on Jet works as a connector for other chars with team feats, but later on I have enough slots to form other working pairs. As for Val, you can't really beat her in terms of pure tank (unless you make a custom char). I give her 1 lv in vivi, and then all the feats from fighter like bonus DEX allowance on armor, specializations in armor and shields, then grater specializations and so on and she pops around 45 AC. On top of that I can actually salvage her CHA using Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses, which I also have on Reg and Amiri (made into Freebooter /Ranger for team attack buffs) so essentially I first go for intimidation, and then maul everything down with sneak attacks while flat footed. Works fine given the ridiculous stat bloat on enemies.

You can give same feats to Jaethal (except for weapon specialization). And she gets teamwork feats for "free" that combine well with everyone and they all affect her. Jaethal also has good Cha. In the end the only real difference is +2 from tower shield but Judgement goes over that in mid levels and you get +4 to deflection with Jaethal by lvl 12.
And unlike Val, she is immune to lots of stuff and she cannot be killed by a random critical hit.

If we are talking about levels around 12 then Jaethal kit has +3 sacred bonus to AC over plain character without bonuses.
TSS kit offers potential +10 over same "clean" character at same level. And Tristian can provide +2 sacred AC to anyone anyway. Even if realistically you'll probably squeeze only +8/9(+5/6 dex, +3 tower shield) from the maximum 10, Valerie still should have at least 5 more AC than Jaethal.

Val will get +4 to Dex at best and +2 from tower shield and +1 from greater shield focus and 3/adamantine. Jaethal gets +3 to Dex (in Mithril Full Plate) and +3 sacred to AC (and she can also get DR with Judgement). So with Val you get +1 AC and 3/adamantine and no resistances and immunities and no special skill.. sorry but I would rather get Jaethal.

As for Tristian, yea cool. You use him, with Jaethal I can use other characters, don't need to depend on him. Jaethal can Prayer on round one while priest does other stuff. Val does Dazzling Display that can fail and does not work on Undead and some others.

 

[Van-d-all]

does increase max Dex

*max DEX Modifier*, which translates exactly to AC.

 

[ArchAngel]

does increase max Dex

*max DEX Modifier*, which translates exactly to AC.

So does Mithril Full Plate (that Val has no purpose of using because she will not have that high Dex).

 

[panda]

You can easily get +7 dex bonus on Valerie without items even if you take +2 STR from her quest instead of +2 DEX.

 

[Van-d-all]

does increase max Dex

*max DEX Modifier*, which translates exactly to AC.

So does Mithril Full Plate (that Val has no purpose of using because she will not have that high Dex).

Remember the mutagen part? It stacks with Cat's Grace.

 

[Jasede]

Holy shit, black Ranger is annihilating troll hounds before they get in melee range. It's a joy. 35 damage! 40 damage! 38 damage!

 

[ArchAngel]

You can easily get +7 dex bonus on Valerie without items even if you take +2 STR from her quest instead of +2 DEX.

Ok, yes you can make her small and raise her Dex on level up instead of Strength. Then she will hit even less stuff and enemy AI will decide to attack others...

 

[ArchAngel]

does increase max Dex

*max DEX Modifier*, which translates exactly to AC.

So does Mithril Full Plate (that Val has no purpose of using because she will not have that high Dex).

Remember the mutagen part? It stacks with Cat's Grace.

lvl 1 mutagen than can be used once per day for 10 minute... not very useful.

 

[Van-d-all]

does increase max Dex

*max DEX Modifier*, which translates exactly to AC.

So does Mithril Full Plate (that Val has no purpose of using because she will not have that high Dex).

Remember the mutagen part? It stacks with Cat's Grace.

lvl 1 mutagen than can be used once per day for 10 minute... not very useful.

In 40+ AC territory even a +1 can make a char hittable only on n20, and effectively 50% of 19-20, 33% 18-20 etc. Plus 10 minutes is what it usually takes to kill everything on a given map :/ I use it only for bosses anyways, but I had boss fight without her even getting hit, so I'll take my Val ovet Jet any time, tyvm.

 

[panda]

You can easily get +7 dex bonus on Valerie without items even if you take +2 STR from her quest instead of +2 DEX.

Ok, yes you can make her small and raise her Dex on level up instead of Strength. Then she will hit even less stuff and enemy AI will decide to attack others...

You can always use agile weapon, you know?

But this conversation is pointless. You don't use full kit potential to increase tankiness but then complain that character is not tanky.

 

[toro]

Considering all the above and the fact that I'm sick of save-scumming for successes on opportunities, I've decided to give up.

I honestly don't enjoy the game anymore because the pacing is completely retarded: you can have up to 3 timed quests at the same time and then you can have 300 days without anything happening. I mean the first 4 chapters of the game are great and I love the combat mechanics, exploration and the story but the hidden timers are killing it for me. Perpetual reloading where each loading screen takes 15 seconds it's no fun.

Also I will admit one thing: I'm not a hardcore player as this games requires one to be. You have to pay attention to how you are building your characters, how to progress with quests, how to manage the party in fights, how to build your town for max revenues, how to train your advisors for max stats, when to annex new territories and other micro-management activities (like best equipment and so on). At some point everything becomes a chore.

That being said, I will revisit this game sometime in the future. I'm burned out atm.

What timed quests have given you problems? And what exactly did you do to fuck up your kingdom so much?

Its true that kingdom management gets way too time consuming as the game goes on, but its really not as punishing or difficult as you make it sound. The only really important thing you need to do is not ignore the one day events related to the ancient curse. And i guess don't ignore the order of the rack event for too long. Apart from that i can't imagine how you can fuck your kingdom up so much so as to really get in trouble. The big final chapter event has you loose 1 point from each stat per day and has no events that need to be completed. Even the shittest of kingdoms should be fine.

Of course the final chapter is very buggy so your probably right to take a break now, but i'm really curious what happened to your kingdom and whether the game will legit fuck you over or if you're just being dramatic.

I had Armag, Linxia and an Artisan timed quests all at the same time. But I solved all of them.

Also my kingdom is not fucked at all.

My main complain is about the game's pacing: Season of Bloom urgent, Vanishing of Varnhold urgent, Twice Born urgent and then you have 300 days of nothing.

300 days of savescumming for successes on opportunities ... it took me like 6 hours and my good will towards the game. This is what I'm talking about.

Edit: Actually I see Troubled. Wtf

 

[toro]

Turns out using the ranged disarm trap thing summons a '' invisible '' character, which is really a floating pair of green hands, that can even tank!

The last hot-fix contains this gem:

No entry points on Pitax city map. Resolution: fixed.

No comment except that the Pitax chapter is still unfinished.

Needless to say I've just started the Pitax chapter and the first companion quest is bugged:

Spoiler

Annamede Belavarah is not on the map.

Considering all the above and the fact that I'm sick of save-scumming for successes on opportunities, I've decided to give up.

I honestly don't enjoy the game anymore because the pacing is completely retarded: you can have up to 3 timed quests at the same time and then you can have 300 days without anything happening. I mean the first 4 chapters of the game are great and I love the combat mechanics, exploration and the story but the hidden timers are killing it for me. Perpetual reloading where each loading screen takes 15 seconds it's no fun.

Also I will admit one thing: I'm not a hardcore player as this games requires one to be. You have to pay attention to how you are building your characters, how to progress with quests, how to manage the party in fights, how to build your town for max revenues, how to train your advisors for max stats, when to annex new territories and other micro-management activities (like best equipment and so on). At some point everything becomes a chore.

That being said, I will revisit this game sometime in the future. I'm burned out atm.

she s on the map, but you need to do the linzi quest before doing any of the tournament events

if you mean the three pitax quests after the tournament, they are all at 6 hours ingame time from each other in the map. but i get what you mean, time is a oppressive concept in a game with exploring

She is not in the tournament map.

 

[Van-d-all]

My main complain is about the game's pacing: Season of Bloom urgent, Vanishing of Varnhold urgent, Twice Born urgent and then you have 300 days of nothing.

300 days of savescumming for successes on opportunities ... it took me like 6 hours and my good will towards the game. This is what I'm talking about.

Edit: Actually I see Troubled. Wtf

I'll admit that with Tristrian the dogooder cunt, failing DC20 events despite his +8 advisor bonus, was the first time I considered lowering difficulty of something in this game to easy.

 

[ArchAngel]

You can easily get +7 dex bonus on Valerie without items even if you take +2 STR from her quest instead of +2 DEX.

Ok, yes you can make her small and raise her Dex on level up instead of Strength. Then she will hit even less stuff and enemy AI will decide to attack others...

You can always use agile weapon, you know?

But this conversation is pointless. You don't use full kit potential to increase tankiness but then complain that character is not tanky.

In a game where spells rule endgame, tankyness is not only AC. I will take my Undead tank with many tools for many situations over a few more AC, thank you very much. She has Shield Wall and Outflank. Harrim gives her +2 ac just by standing near, Nok Nok always flanks with her and gives her +2 more attack. This is another thing Val does not have.
She also has Back to Back and anyone flanking her does not get the +2 bonus to hit her. For Val you would need to take Back to back with multiple characters.

EDIT: OK in this game lvl 13 tower shield specialist gets immunity to flank. But with multi to Vivi and possibly Stalwart Defender, does anyone get her to lvl 13 by lvl 16/17?

 

[Van-d-all]

Shield Wall

is another thing Val does not have.

Maybe in your build...

 

[ArchAngel]

Shield Wall

is another thing Val does not have.

Maybe in your build...

There is no my build, my run where I use her got stopped when I discovered the power of Evil run with evil companions. And now I don't think I want to use her in any combination. OK her pure AC will be a bit better at end game, but for most of the game she is worse than using a tank Jaethal.

 

[Van-d-all]

Shield Wall

is another thing Val does not have.

Maybe in your build...

There is no my build, my run where I use her got stopped when I discovered the power of Evil run with evil companions. And now I don't think I want to use her in any combination. OK her pure AC will be a bit better at end game, but for most of the game she is worse than using a tank Jaethal.

Her AC is better since lv 2, and the distance only grows. And I use her in evil run anyways, since she doesn't even mind, as long as it's lawful, which makes her even more interesting.

 

[Serus]

You can easily get +7 dex bonus on Valerie without items even if you take +2 STR from her quest instead of +2 DEX.

Ok, yes you can make her small and raise her Dex on level up instead of Strength. Then she will hit even less stuff and enemy AI will decide to attack others...

You can always use agile weapon, you know?

But this conversation is pointless. You don't use full kit potential to increase tankiness but then complain that character is not tanky.

In a game where spells rule endgame, tankyness is not only AC. I will take my Undead tank with many tools for many situations over a few more AC, thank you very much. She has Shield Wall and Outflank. Harrim gives her +2 ac just by standing near, Nok Nok always flanks with her and gives her +2 more attack. This is another thing Val does not have.
She also has Back to Back and anyone flanking her does not get the +2 bonus to hit her. For Val you would need to take Back to back with multiple characters.

EDIT: OK in this game lvl 13 tower shield specialist gets immunity to flank. But with multi to Vivi and possibly Stalwart Defender, does anyone get her to lvl 13 by lvl 16/17?

Why would Valerie not have outflank? You're not making sense in that particular case. It's something you probably take on any front liner anyway. Teamwork feats aren't an exclusive feature of the Inquisitor class, only "solo tactics" is but with good feats like outflank which you end taking on anyone it doesn't matter. And if anyone stands near her on the front he/she might get targeted as well so you might give him/her shield wall which means Valerie can use it too. Also does Jaethal start with heavy armor proficiency? Inquisitors don't have it by default, and you calculated the AC assuming a heavy armor. And that costs another feat which an inquisitor doesn't have that many or a dip into fighter class. And also Valerie has more HP which also sometimes comes in play when tanking.

There certainly is a good point to be made about Jaethal immunities being more useful than AC, especially as the game progresses, but the one about teamwork feats really doesn't hold much value. Also Jaethal has her special healing "needs". Which might not be a big issue if you keep her an Inquisitor but still limits her a bit and so the undead status is not pure gain as you make it out to be.

 

[RegionalHobo]

Turns out using the ranged disarm trap thing summons a '' invisible '' character, which is really a floating pair of green hands, that can even tank!

The last hot-fix contains this gem:

No entry points on Pitax city map. Resolution: fixed.

No comment except that the Pitax chapter is still unfinished.

Needless to say I've just started the Pitax chapter and the first companion quest is bugged:

Spoiler

Annamede Belavarah is not on the map.

Considering all the above and the fact that I'm sick of save-scumming for successes on opportunities, I've decided to give up.

I honestly don't enjoy the game anymore because the pacing is completely retarded: you can have up to 3 timed quests at the same time and then you can have 300 days without anything happening. I mean the first 4 chapters of the game are great and I love the combat mechanics, exploration and the story but the hidden timers are killing it for me. Perpetual reloading where each loading screen takes 15 seconds it's no fun.

Also I will admit one thing: I'm not a hardcore player as this games requires one to be. You have to pay attention to how you are building your characters, how to progress with quests, how to manage the party in fights, how to build your town for max revenues, how to train your advisors for max stats, when to annex new territories and other micro-management activities (like best equipment and so on). At some point everything becomes a chore.

That being said, I will revisit this game sometime in the future. I'm burned out atm.

she s on the map, but you need to do the linzi quest before doing any of the tournament events

if you mean the three pitax quests after the tournament, they are all at 6 hours ingame time from each other in the map. but i get what you mean, time is a oppressive concept in a game with exploring

She is not in the tournament map.

but did you try to find her before the fish triathlon event? as far as i know it s at this point that she disappears