KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Raghar]

Fuck that rain spam!!!

I get party typically 3x hit by lightning before rains stops.

 

[Raghar]

I found a countess tsitsiolina in my throne room after 1.1 patch but she doesnt talk,also octavia is there.

Countess who now? never heard of her.

Psycho evil cleric? Well, that's weird she talked before patch 1.1.

 

[vazha]

I found a countess tsitsiolina in my throne room after 1.1 patch but she doesnt talk,also octavia is there.

Countess who now? never heard of her.

Psycho evil cleric? Well, that's weird she talked before patch 1.1.

Never heard of her. What does she do?

 

[Zero Credibility]

I have restarted the game (can't help myself), and in chapter 2 also found that marchess or whatever she is called standing in my throne room. No idea what that is about.

 

[ArchAngel]

Yay! Lvl 4. Now we have TWO smilodons in party.

That is such a noob choice. Smart players take Leopards.

Seconded. Leopards, with proper buffing of course, are superb tanks (AC goes up to 60 or so), possibly even more useful then valerie provided the pet belongs to a sacred huntsmaster. Very useful to hold the line while the rest of your party can nuke from afar & let Nokie do what he does best.

UPD: Also if I m not mistaken they get a rather decent wisdom score, further amplifying their defenses.

And they get Evasion and good Ref Save. You can gather enemies around and nuke the area without a fear for the animal.

 

[ArchAngel]

Why? I understand mastodons but why leopards?

Leopards are quite good, at least on paper, as well. They are among the few pets with 2 additional, 3 total attacks, only smilodons get more. However leopards compared to smilodons:
- get better AC, eventually by a good few points,
- can trip enemies with main attack which is always nice as it can provide with AoOs for everyone within reach,
- after a few levels they should be using DEX for both attack and damage rolls (I think). And of curse DEX is also AC. This is handy when you want to buff them,
- and finally they end as medium sized instead of large. If you use several pets in addition to some characters on the frontline it might be a plus. Supposedly it can get too crowded while using several large pets in some situations.

However smilodons still get 4 additional attacks instead of "only" 2 and can't be beaten in terms of raw damage output so I wouldn't say that they are "noob choice". They're THE choice if raw damage potential is what you are looking for in a pet. If you want more AC and want the pet to contribute something to the party other than their own damage then leopard becomes very good. Personally I'd probably diversify if I had more than 1 pet in party. 1 smilodon + 1 leopard for example. But that's just me, not some objective truth. I'd like some diversity in my zoo.

Dead pet does 0 damage. I will leave it at that.

Most people seem to fail to realize that Leopard do not have Power attack and all other animal companion do. As for AC all animal companion wind up at a very similar AC number, they are all within 3 AC of each other 49 is the highest(Leopard and mastdon) and 46 is the lowest (smilodon and various others) at level 16. I think a wolf is 48 and dog 47. Also stats wise all the companions wind up only +1 or +2 different from each other. A leopards dex is only +1 or +2 different than strength on a smilodon, even more the strength on the Leopard itself is only a bit different than its dex. The fact that it traded weapon finesse for power attack was actually kind of dumb since, IIRC, they wind wind up with 28 str versus 32 dex but lose power attack for that +2 and take a net -6 on damage. And the smilodon winds up with 30 or 32 str anyway. Similarly the smilodon just winds up with 28 dex versus the Leopard 32 dex and is only +2 difference as well with the +1 size creaing the +3 AC difference. Also the lower str on leopard makes it somewhat worse at tripping than a dog and a dragon polymorphed dog does more damage anyway due to power attack, while only have I think 2 more ac.

IMO the AC differences between pets are not that substantive. The damage difference can be gigantic and special effects are substantive. The vast majority of companion AC and stats come from levels and have little to do with their type. A level 12 smildon is, IIRC, 39 AC and a level 16 is 46 AC. People seem to have taken the stats shown at the level 7 change and thought those meant something, but in reality levels even everything out to within 1,2, or 3 on most things. The main difference are feats and special attacks. Not having power attack puts Leopards in an entirely different class vs all other animal compantions and their weapon finesse is, frankly, not an advantage at all in fact Mastadon's strength is either the same or +1 better than Leopard dex. There are really only two main considerations do you want trip or damage? If you want both you can get both by NOT choosing Leopard for trip but you have to wait for level 6 arcane spells. So in general just either chose between damage (which means smilodon) or trip (Leopard is fine for this, but so are the others). But any companion can tank when properly buffed, they can all get over 60AC.

In reality Leopards don't necessarily do more damage than Mastodons with the 3 attacks versus 2 attacks, because they lack power attack and both are actually similar in damage, but the Leopard is inferior in dragon polymorph unless you really want trip in which case go with dog, since dog has better CMB and power attack.

So your argument that at end end game with use of one spell other companions are finally equal in usage to Leopards... still Leopards are best for 80% of the game. Tnx for proving my point.
3 AC is a lot for most of the game, it is difference between 5% to hit them or 20% (20% equals dead companion in many fights).
And I am pretty sure it is more than 3AC between Leopard and Smilodon for most of the game. Leopards also get more base natural AC.
Also you forget that you buff Leopards with one spell (cat's grace), you need two for smilodons. That also makes a big difference during the game.

It is still a noob trap to compare stuff based on their last 10% of gameplay performance. This is same shitty comparison that people do in PnP by looking at lvl 17 to 20 characters when playing a campaign that starts from lvl 1.

 

[Yosharian]

Woah woah wait, this https://store.steampowered.com/app/663380/Tales_from_Candlekeep_Tomb_of_Annihilation/ is a cartoony remake of Tomb of Horrors? And you only have 4 PREMADE CHARACTERS TO CHOOSE FROM?

My god this is disgusting

And the other one's just a fucking mobile game, eurgh I'm going to be sick

 

[Haplo]

the only one can do damage to them is the PC with +1 weapon and amiri whose weapon by default is +1, harrim can use some spell that harms undead, but it's not doing much. when the tank falls, they broke trough and gutted everyone hahaha.

If they are proper Skeleton Champions as per PnP then it's bludgeoning damage that's needed, rather than +1 weapons

My Vivi did fine against them sitting behind Valerie's back and striking them with a Longspear. The damage reduction was barely noticable. Of course I did wipe the first time I encountered them, when my party was on their last legs. But when I rested and buffed, we rolled over them. And yeah, there actually was some nice loot in there.

 

[Yosharian]

the only one can do damage to them is the PC with +1 weapon and amiri whose weapon by default is +1, harrim can use some spell that harms undead, but it's not doing much. when the tank falls, they broke trough and gutted everyone hahaha.

If they are proper Skeleton Champions as per PnP then it's bludgeoning damage that's needed, rather than +1 weapons

My Vivi did fine against them sitting behind Valerie's back and striking them with a Longspear. The damage reduction was barely noticable. Of course I did wipe the first time I encountered them, when my party was on their last legs. But when I rested and buffed, we rolled over them. And yeah, there actually was some nice loot in there.

I'm going back there in a bit. Nearly level 5!

 

[ArchAngel]

Woah woah wait, this https://store.steampowered.com/app/663380/Tales_from_Candlekeep_Tomb_of_Annihilation/ is a cartoony remake of Tomb of Horrors? And you only have 4 PREMADE CHARACTERS TO CHOOSE FROM?

My god this is disgusting

And the other one's just a fucking mobile game, eurgh I'm going to be sick

It is even worse from the video. You only play with one of the 4 premade characters, it is not even a party game :D

 

[Yosharian]

Woah woah wait, this https://store.steampowered.com/app/663380/Tales_from_Candlekeep_Tomb_of_Annihilation/ is a cartoony remake of Tomb of Horrors? And you only have 4 PREMADE CHARACTERS TO CHOOSE FROM?

My god this is disgusting

And the other one's just a fucking mobile game, eurgh I'm going to be sick

It is even worse from the video. You only play with one of the 4 premade characters, it is not even a party game :D

Dear god

Fucking WOTC man wtf are they doing

 

[Reinhardt]

the only one can do damage to them is the PC with +1 weapon and amiri whose weapon by default is +1, harrim can use some spell that harms undead, but it's not doing much. when the tank falls, they broke trough and gutted everyone hahaha.

If they are proper Skeleton Champions as per PnP then it's bludgeoning damage that's needed, rather than +1 weapons

My Vivi did fine against them sitting behind Valerie's back and striking them with a Longspear. The damage reduction was barely noticable. Of course I did wipe the first time I encountered them, when my party was on their last legs. But when I rested and buffed, we rolled over them. And yeah, there actually was some nice loot in there.

I'm going back there in a bit. Nearly level 5!

Level 5 is huge overkill for old sycamore.

Still hardest fight in the game is bandit assault at Oleg's outpost. Especially if you don't level up main character so you can get better prices on custom mercs after that.

 

[Jarpie]

the only one can do damage to them is the PC with +1 weapon and amiri whose weapon by default is +1, harrim can use some spell that harms undead, but it's not doing much. when the tank falls, they broke trough and gutted everyone hahaha.

If they are proper Skeleton Champions as per PnP then it's bludgeoning damage that's needed, rather than +1 weapons

My Vivi did fine against them sitting behind Valerie's back and striking them with a Longspear. The damage reduction was barely noticable. Of course I did wipe the first time I encountered them, when my party was on their last legs. But when I rested and buffed, we rolled over them. And yeah, there actually was some nice loot in there.

I'm going back there in a bit. Nearly level 5!

Level 5 is huge overkill for old sycamore.

Still hardest fight in the game is bandit assault at Oleg's outpost. Especially if you don't level up main character so you can get better prices on custom mercs after that.

Do you mean the assault at start of the game?

 

[Yosharian]

the only one can do damage to them is the PC with +1 weapon and amiri whose weapon by default is +1, harrim can use some spell that harms undead, but it's not doing much. when the tank falls, they broke trough and gutted everyone hahaha.

If they are proper Skeleton Champions as per PnP then it's bludgeoning damage that's needed, rather than +1 weapons

My Vivi did fine against them sitting behind Valerie's back and striking them with a Longspear. The damage reduction was barely noticable. Of course I did wipe the first time I encountered them, when my party was on their last legs. But when I rested and buffed, we rolled over them. And yeah, there actually was some nice loot in there.

I'm going back there in a bit. Nearly level 5!

Level 5 is huge overkill for old sycamore.

Still hardest fight in the game is bandit assault at Oleg's outpost. Especially if you don't level up main character so you can get better prices on custom mercs after that.

No way is that the hardest fight... only took a few reloads for me

Oh, now that I think about it though, that was with a full 6 man party of mercs haha, so maybe you're right

 

[Cyberarmy]

Oleg's outpost defense is nothing...
Just use the traps, alchemist and charge the main archer.

 

[Reinhardt]

Bokken can obliterate your party alone, he don't even need bandits help. Also half of reloads there will be storm so fire trap is useless.

Oh, now that I think about it though, that was with a full 6 man party of mercs haha, so maybe you're right

But you can hire mercs only after fight.

 

[ArchAngel]

the only one can do damage to them is the PC with +1 weapon and amiri whose weapon by default is +1, harrim can use some spell that harms undead, but it's not doing much. when the tank falls, they broke trough and gutted everyone hahaha.

If they are proper Skeleton Champions as per PnP then it's bludgeoning damage that's needed, rather than +1 weapons

My Vivi did fine against them sitting behind Valerie's back and striking them with a Longspear. The damage reduction was barely noticable. Of course I did wipe the first time I encountered them, when my party was on their last legs. But when I rested and buffed, we rolled over them. And yeah, there actually was some nice loot in there.

I'm going back there in a bit. Nearly level 5!

Level 5 is huge overkill for old sycamore.

Still hardest fight in the game is bandit assault at Oleg's outpost. Especially if you don't level up main character so you can get better prices on custom mercs after that.

No way is that the hardest fight... only took a few reloads for me

Oh, now that I think about it though, that was with a full 6 man party of mercs haha, so maybe you're right

I am also confused, I found that fight easy. Even on my Merc run where on purpose I didn't level up my main character to lvl 2. But all companions that come with you can be leveled up to 2.
What is hard is then doing rest of the content with one lvl 2 character and a bunch of lvl 1. Lots of reloading until they all reach lvl 3 or so.
And if you get ambushed by Tecniq League they go for the kill since you have no companions to abduct lol. That fight is hardest by far with a bunch of lvl 1 characters

 

[Reinhardt]

We are talking about high difficulty settings, right?

 

[Zero Credibility]

I found the oil you could spill there to be unhelpful. The main problem with this fight (well, besides Bokken killing everyone) is the archer in the back, and oil gives him more time to mess you up. It also slows down the enemies, but that makes them trigger less traps before they engage with your guys.

But yeah, Technic League is a tougher fight if you can't / won't surrender. That blindness spamming mage is particularly annoying...

 

[ArchAngel]

We are talking about high difficulty settings, right?

I don't know, I am playing on challenging. It is up to you to mention difficulty you are talking about when mentioning something is hard or easy. We are not mind readers.

 

[Reinhardt]

At least now reward for killing Stag Lord fast is a direct upgrade for one of my girls.

 

[Reinhardt]

We are talking about high difficulty settings, right?

I don't know, I am playing on challenging. It is up to you to mention difficulty you are talking about when mentioning something is hard or easy. We are not mind readers.

We are codexers, so if you are not fantadomat - you are playing at least on hard. I thought you don't need to point obvious things.

 

[Parabalus]

At least now reward for killing Stag Lord fast is a direct upgrade for one of my girls.

They changed the dueling sword reward?

 

[Reinhardt]

No, one of my mercs is samuraialdori.

 

[ArchAngel]

We are talking about high difficulty settings, right?

I don't know, I am playing on challenging. It is up to you to mention difficulty you are talking about when mentioning something is hard or easy. We are not mind readers.

We are codexers, so if you are not fantadomat - you are playing at least on hard. I thought you don't need to point obvious things.

I think only a few people are playing on Hard here.
And I don't play on Hard because I prefer to have a more authentic D&D experience, once you change numbers too much, many of the classes and abilities become pretty useless.