KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Roguey]

Going to be delightful if this ends up better than ToEE.

With Chris writing, at least (some of) the writing will be.

 

[YES!]

Going to be delightful if this ends up better than ToEE.

With Chris writing, at least (some of) the writing will be.

Its RTwP. How could it be better?

 

[YES!]

I like how everyone gets all giddy like little wierdos when a writer is named for a game. Its the same with a "composer." It never matters more than maybe a teeny tiny bit for how good a game is. A great game with shit writing and music is always great. A shit game with great writing and music is always shit. You can't write or compose your way out of a bad game or into a good game.

Why do they never list who is designing chardev and chargen. Why can I never see if it is fully party gen in the title of a post? Why is the most superficial and inane information the information the monkeys only give a shit about but not the actual important game information.

If it is RTwP did they at least play the only RTwP game with good combat, Aarklash Legacy? Are they going to try and have good combat like that game or are they going for the mindless click and watch monkey combat for idiots almost every RTwP game has?

 

[Roguey]

Its RTwP. How could it be better?

The same way Baldur's Gate is better, content.

 

[YES!]

Its RTwP. How could it be better?

The same way Baldur's Gate is better, content.

So the game systems don't matter? Just content?

 

[Fin]

Going to be delightful if this ends up better than ToEE.

With Chris writing, at least (some of) the writing will be.

I will never understand this whole "chris is god" complex around here. Seriously this is the same guy who made crap after crap an edgy game in the 90s using bioware's amazing infinty engine and openly stated chrono trigger to be his fav game, he doesn't deserve our love.

 

[YES!]

Going to be delightful if this ends up better than ToEE.

With Chris writing, at least (some of) the writing will be.

I will never understand this whole "chris is god" complex around here. Seriously this is the same guy who made crap after crap an edgy game in the 90s using bioware's amazing infinty engine and openly stated chrono trigger to be his fav game, he doesn't deserve our love.

"Our" love? Why the need for the homogenous plural? Why can't some like his writing and some not? I just don't think writing is very important in a game. Because it is a game. The game systems have to be good for it to be a good game. If the game is an rpg then the rpg systems along with other systems have to be good for it to be a good rpg. Writing is on par with music. The game can be slightly better if it isn't shit - but neither good writing or good music can make or break a game.

Like, if the said Tim Cain was in complete control of the system designs of the game I know for 100% certain it will be an instant classic and would bet my life I would love it. Why? Because he makes great games. Is he a great writer? I don't give two shits. I can't play writing. I play games. And King Cain makes them well. He makes them very well.

 

[Roguey]

Fin's just copying old me.

So the game systems don't matter? Just content?

Mask of the Betrayer made the lousy NWN2 worth playing, so good content can certainly make up for for bad systems.

 

[Fairfax]

Fin's just copying old me.

So it's not just the picture? And you used to say that shit?

 

[Roguey]

So it's not just the picture? And you used to say that shit?

My first post ever was a meltdown about Avellone. My views have changed in the years since.

 

[YES!]

Fin's just copying old me.

So the game systems don't matter? Just content?

Mask of the Betrayer made the lousy NWN2 worth playing, so good content can certainly make up for for bad systems.

Not for me. I really wish I could stand the super retard combat of NWN2 to actually see what all the hubbub was about, but I can't. I can say I didn't fully dislike Mystery at6 Westgate and had a challenge with a couple fights in it. I also very much enjoyed the persistent worlds that have some great challenge and give a reason to having stats, feats, etc. Trinity and Something Something Baldur's Gate come to mind.

 

[Background Character]

Won't Pathfinder 2.0 already be out, when the game's released?

There's gonna be a Pathfinder 2.0?

 

[Fin]

Fin's just copying old me.

So the game systems don't matter? Just content?

Mask of the Betrayer made the lousy NWN2 worth playing, so good content can certainly make up for for bad systems.

Not for me. I really wish I could stand the super retard combat of NWN2 to actually see what all the hubbub was about, but I can't. I can say I didn't fully dislike Mystery at6 Westgate and had a challenge with a couple fights in it. I also very much enjoyed the persistent worlds that have some great challenge and give a reason to having stats, feats, etc. Trinity and Something Something Baldur's Gate come to mind.

I see say excatly what uoy mean myuh fiend, cause somethime in nvn2 i would click somerhing... And like my compaions would do that other thing... And like, we would die... But like, i liked the combat encounters... But then, the camera kept acting up... And like... I just quit the game cause like... Who wants to deal with that? Know what i mean broak?

 

[Rev]

My first post ever was a meltdown about Avellone. My views have changed in the years since.

Coincidentally, that post was in 2010, last year in which MCA had a huge role on a game, after you change your views he stopped producing anything worthwhile and started whoring himself out for Kickstarters... maybe it's better if you go back to hating him, so that we can see something good from him again.

 

[Prime Junta]

Coincidentally, that post was in 2010, last year in which MCA had a huge role on a game, after you change your views he stopped producing anything worthwhile and started whoring himself out for Kickstarters... maybe it's better if you go back to hating him, so that we can see something good from him again.

That post probably broke him. ROGUEY WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

 

[Serus]

I'm really on fence, they're saying a lotta right words and I can tolerate RTwP if game around its good, but i've gotta wonder why nobodies got balls to make turn based? It worked bloody well in ToEE, saving grace o game, an from what I understand about Pathfinder its just house ruled 3.5 so it seems a better bet than RTwP.

Art design still looks shit to me, neither out there stuff o Torment an all weirdos o Sigil or detailed look o Poe, justt middling crap.

Real-time is more popular.

So i ask again - if you are planning to butcher the system and the lore has little to no value then why bother ? Make your own system, the lore you will come up with almost certainly won't be worse and the system will be made for computers either way. Making it rtwp is really bad but even if you think rtwp is any good why defending the use of a system like Pathfinder ?

Systems designers are rare, let alone good ones. Also, creating an ruleset and a new setting for a game like this takes a lot of time, and you can't even count on brand recognition in the end. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but using Pathfinder is a lot easier, specially with such a small team. Makes a lot more sense here than TTON using Numenera, if you ask me.

More popular ? Says who ? And how can you tell considering that most of popular AAA crpg in the last several years are action hybrids from Beth and CDP anyway - not tb, and not rtwp. And if you meant indie developers then you have to be kidding me about rtwp being more popular. In the last few years between Divinity: OS, Wasteland 2, AOD and its spinoff, Underrail, Blackguards games, MMX, Dead State, Expeditions games, Banner Saga games, Shadowrun games, etc..., etc... you have only a handful comparable rtwp games. More popular my ass. Way to project.

Takes a lot of time ? Brand recognition ? But that's the thing, they will have to redesign and rebalance a lot of the systems anyway to adapt them to rtwp. Do you believe that making the abortion that infinity engine system was didn't require extensive work, that id made itself in a few days ? And the end result (as in - system not necessarily the game as a whole) will suck. It would be better imo, just with a little more effort, to make something new (that will suck too but at least it will be yours to suck do as you please) or TB - then you can simply adapt a system almost 1:1 to computer (with some necessary cuts if your budget requites it).

Brand recognition - sure. So let's say you are right, making your own system that will suck is too much work and you also want a pre-existing brand at the same time. Sounds logical (~more or less) to use something from pnp. Then why not take something that will actually give them a brand recognition AND be at least a little bit original at the same time. And it doesn't have be anything like "I want to be like Planescape: Torment - The game" to achieve that, just not be 100% generic. Personally i would greatly prefer good combat system but if i almost certainly won't get that then maybe some originality to give at least a chance for the writing and storytelling to shine. Who am i kidding.

 

[Infinitron]

And if you meant indie developers then you have to be kidding me about rtwp being more popular. In the last few years between Divinity: OS, Wasteland 2, AOD and its spinoff, Underrail, Blackguards games, MMX, Dead State, Expeditions games, Banner Saga games, Shadowrun games, etc..., etc... you have only a handful comparable rtwp games.

In other words, the turn-based niche is too crowded and there's more room in the RTwP space. It's natural that somebody else wants to try to do what Siege of Dragonspear failed to.

 

[Serus]

And if you meant indie developers then you have to be kidding me about rtwp being more popular. In the last few years between Divinity: OS, Wasteland 2, AOD and its spinoff, Underrail, Blackguards games, MMX, Dead State, Expeditions games, Banner Saga games, Shadowrun games, etc..., etc... you have only a handful comparable rtwp games.

In other words, the turn-based niche is too crowded and there's more room in the RTwP space. It's natural that somebody else wants to try to do what Siege of Dragonspear failed to.

But the guy i was answering said "more popular", this is a completely different point.
What you are saying makes a lot more sense and if that was the devs way of thinking i'm ok with it. Their money, their time, their careers.
However from the perspective of a crpg fan who likes good combat systems (which almost always means TB) it is completely irrelevant. Let's hope they will be able to make something of BG2 quality or better - and save the game by having varied and interesting enemies, encounters, character progression, maybe non-combat systems too (the last two things would be incline from BG2).

 

[DavidBVal]

NWN series has an OK excuse for going real time, it was designed with multiplayer in mind. DM mode, etc. Some persistent worlds were fun to play and they wouldn't have worked in a TB game. Now it's true the multiplayer modes were barely played by the masses in the end, and it's true the end result left much to be desired, but I applaud their attempt at making cRPG a "shared experience", in the spirit of PnP.

But this game is designed around a campaign and no multiplayer announced nor expected, correct?

 

[ArchAngel]

I'm really on fence, they're saying a lotta right words and I can tolerate RTwP if game around its good, but i've gotta wonder why nobodies got balls to make turn based? It worked bloody well in ToEE, saving grace o game, an from what I understand about Pathfinder its just house ruled 3.5 so it seems a better bet than RTwP.

Art design still looks shit to me, neither out there stuff o Torment an all weirdos o Sigil or detailed look o Poe, justt middling crap.

Real-time is more popular.

So i ask again - if you are planning to butcher the system and the lore has little to no value then why bother ? Make your own system, the lore you will come up with almost certainly won't be worse and the system will be made for computers either way. Making it rtwp is really bad but even if you think rtwp is any good why defending the use of a system like Pathfinder ?

Systems designers are rare, let alone good ones. Also, creating an ruleset and a new setting for a game like this takes a lot of time, and you can't even count on brand recognition in the end. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but using Pathfinder is a lot easier, specially with such a small team. Makes a lot more sense here than TTON using Numenera, if you ask me.

More popular ? Says who ? And how can you tell considering that most of popular AAA crpg in the last several years are action hybrids from Beth and CDP anyway - not tb, and not rtwp. And if you meant indie developers then you have to be kidding me about rtwp being more popular. In the last few years between Divinity: OS, Wasteland 2, AOD and its spinoff, Underrail, Blackguards games, MMX, Dead State, Expeditions games, Banner Saga games, Shadowrun games, etc..., etc... you have only a handful comparable rtwp games. More popular my ass. Way to project.

Takes a lot of time ? Brand recognition ? But that's the thing, they will have to redesign and rebalance a lot of the systems anyway to adapt them to rtwp. Do you believe that making the abortion that infinity engine system was didn't require extensive work, that id made itself in a few days ? And the end result (as in - system not necessarily the game as a whole) will suck. It would be better imo, just with a little more effort, to make something new (that will suck too but at least it will be yours to suck do as you please) or TB - then you can simply adapt a system almost 1:1 to computer (with some necessary cuts if your budget requites it).

Brand recognition - sure. So let's say you are right, making your own system that will suck is too much work and you also want a pre-existing brand at the same time. Sounds logical (~more or less) to use something from pnp. Then why not take something that will actually give them a brand recognition AND be at least a little bit original at the same time. And it doesn't have be anything like "I want to be like Planescape: Torment - The game" to achieve that, just not be 100% generic. Personally i would greatly prefer good combat system but if i almost certainly won't get that then maybe some originality to give at least a chance for the writing and storytelling to shine. Who am i kidding.

Only success story in that list is D:OS. The rest was either niche for niche (AoD or Underrail) or had decent sales due to being in 1st round of KS (wasteland 2) and had hype. Shadowrun could have as easily been RTwP, its main strength in the end was the story, characters and multiple ways to do the missions.
And then when you look into the past there is no TB fantasy that sold well. But there is PoE, NWN games, Dragon Age 1 (even DA2 sold well enough) and IE games. Of course if you are making a game on the level of PoE or D:OS (devs said that) you are going to use a system that will give you more sales. Especially when your game is not going to be using same tricks like D:OS (Coop MP, everything being a joke and such level of environment interaction).

 

[FeelTheRads]

Going to be delightful if this ends up better than ToEE.

With Chris writing, at least (some of) the writing will be.

I didn't pay much attention, is he actually writing something or he's still just "advising" or whatever else made up crap?

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I'm really on fence, they're saying a lotta right words and I can tolerate RTwP if game around its good, but i've gotta wonder why nobodies got balls to make turn based? It worked bloody well in ToEE, saving grace o game, an from what I understand about Pathfinder its just house ruled 3.5 so it seems a better bet than RTwP.

Art design still looks shit to me, neither out there stuff o Torment an all weirdos o Sigil or detailed look o Poe, justt middling crap.

Real-time is more popular.

So i ask again - if you are planning to butcher the system and the lore has little to no value then why bother ? Make your own system, the lore you will come up with almost certainly won't be worse and the system will be made for computers either way. Making it rtwp is really bad but even if you think rtwp is any good why defending the use of a system like Pathfinder ?

Systems designers are rare, let alone good ones. Also, creating an ruleset and a new setting for a game like this takes a lot of time, and you can't even count on brand recognition in the end. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but using Pathfinder is a lot easier, specially with such a small team. Makes a lot more sense here than TTON using Numenera, if you ask me.

That is how I feel. AD&D or pathfinder might not be the best system ever, and theoretically somebody could create a better system-- but to do so while also having a budget and time issues and needing to also develop the actual games seems unlikely.

AD&D has already proven to be a system that can be used to create good CRPG. People seem to like it (for the most part), and are fairly familiar with it. To spend the time needed to create a whole set of rules just seems like a waste of time, especially since most of the attempts (nearly all?) end up worse than had they just used AD&D. How many more good RPG's or series of linked games could we have if bioware had just kept churning out adventures or modules while continuing to use and update the IE? Same goes with ToEE. In fact the ToEE engine looks good enough and works good enough that I believe it could be used to make a successful series of games right now.

I liked Josh Sawyer games when he was being constrained by D&D. I just wish somebody would recreate the gold box experience using ToEE or some other similar engine, I think it could do well and seems like it would be much easier than starting from scratch every couple of years.

 

[Roguey]

I didn't pay much attention, is he actually writing something or he's still just "advising" or whatever else made up crap?

Chris is a senior narrative designer on Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yeah, sounds like made up crap.

Like a sales clerk is called an associate.

He either writes or he doesn't, I don't care what titles they give him to make it look like he's involved.

 

[ArchAngel]

We know he is at least writing stuff of the iconic barbarian chick as he said himself it is fun to write her lines.