KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Ent]

is there something similar to a sword sage?

I haven't played PF in ages but there might be a magus archetype that makes the class swordsage-like. I don't know if magi will be included in the game however...

 

[Grunker]

is there something similar to a sword sage?

If you mean a Gish, then yes, Pathfinder has IMO the best implementation of the concept of any tabletop game. It's built around the ability to cast spells and attack in the same turn, but being capped in the power of both. However I'm not sure it's mechanics will work well in a real-time environment :/

MAGUS

 

[Efe]

skimmed through classes i hope they implement them well enough.

Seltyiel is a loner, the half-elf bastard son of a dead mother and a brigand father. His step-father beat him constantly as he was growing up, and he eventually fled that broken home to find his own way in the world. Seltyiel now longs for arcane power to use against his abusive step-father.

from iconic magus page, first female barbarian that rejected role of females in her tribe and now this, i sincerely hope not all of them are like this.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

The half-orc Warpriest is better than that shit. Basically trying to figure out how to be more self-controlled and not treat every argument like it's a fight to the death. Works as an enforcer for the Empty Hand tribe of Belkzen. Rumors abound that his father is a powerful warlord, either Grask Uldeth himself or one of the others.

 

[Abu Antar]

Posted by Owlcat Games (Creator)
Dear Pathfinders,

Once again, we would like to thank all of you so much for your support!

We received a ton of questions about game mechanics from you and this update's purpose is to answer at least some of them. In our first mechanics-based update we're focusing on difficulty, build diversity and character development.

Your perfect hero

We wish to make it possible for you to create and develop characters fitting as many concepts and play styles as possible. We want you to be able to replicate the characters that you are currently playing in tabletop, roll characters you’ve always wanted to play or that you had already played before, but you didn't get a chance to really watch them grow because of untimely character death or because your gaming group had fallen apart. For this, we want to give you as many options as possible.

For example, if you had always wanted to play an Arcane Trickster*, a character who only shows her true power after her levels reach the double digits, you may have turned down this idea because most characters in tabletop (and, frankly, most campaigns) do not live that long. In Pathfinder: Kingmaker we give you a way to play this character. The Arcane Trickster is already in development, with more prestige classes already on the way. Or maybe you wanted to play a Cleric of Erastil that supports his companions from afar by summoning monsters and using his longbow (favored weapon of his deity). But when you played him in the adventure path, he died because of unlucky rolls and carelessness? We know exactly how that feels, but now your Cleric can live once more inside the CRPG!

In Erastil's name!
Character classes must not chain you to a certain concept, but provide you with new ideas, and that can only be made possible by large amounts of options for each of them. Our Barbarians will have a large allotment of Rage Powers, and will also have a choice between unchained and standard Rage. Rogues will have rogue talents - and will also be unchained! Wizards need to have as many spells as we can make, from both the core rulebook and other books, and there are already more than 15 spells to choose from for each of the three first spell levels, including Gravity Bow, Snowball and Enlarge Person on the first. And fighters will need all the combat feats there are, and, given enough time, advanced weapon and armor training. The list is constantly growing! We want these features to be as true to the Pathfinder RPG as possible.

Of course, some combat mechanics work differently in real time. Area of effect spells can seem unwieldy because you can miss your enemies, but it could be pointed out that they are still used far more often in CRPGs. One reason for that is the amount of preparation on the table for encounters with large amounts of monsters - too much time is required to place them all on the mat. Just working out the initiative and turns for dozens of monsters can take ages! Computer games don't have such problems - annihilate these monsters to your heart's content!

When preparing a feast for a large party, apply fireball to a group of monsters and cook for 2.8 seconds.
There will be around 10 variants of animal companions, and the same goes for familiars. There will be more than 300 feats, including large feat chains. Some of you asked about deities - there will be at least the Big Twenty. There will be combat maneuvers. There will be blood… lines. Domains. Specialist arcane school powers. Alchemical discoveries and bardic masterpieces. Metamagic and combat styles. Lots and lots of spells. And, of course, prestige classes will also be there.

You set the challenge

Now, if reading about all of these features is making your head spin, because you may be hoping for a more casual experience, don't fret! If you just want to enjoy the game without worrying too much about mechanics, character planning and micro-management, you may always choose a lower difficulty setting. Our AI can help you control the characters in battle. There are pregenerated builds and recommendations for all the choices and options. You can choose exactly which elements you want help with and which of them you want to handle on your own.

Difficulty settings will include a story mode, for those who are less interested in combat and want to focus more on the plot and dialogue. In story mode only thematic abilities of enemies will be noticeable, trolls will still regenerate and spiders will still be venomous, but overall combat will be far easier, and enemy abilities will be easier to deal with. Damage and enemy defenses will be greatly reduced in story mode, and some complex mechanical systems, such as attacks of opportunity, will be switched off for enemies. There will also be a core rules difficulty, which will adhere to tabletop Pathfinder as closely as possible - with attacks of opportunity on your archer that shoots in melee, friendly fire from area of effect spells and occasional deadly critical hits on your party. There will be adapted rules – a simplified version of core rules, fit for fans of CRPGs more than core, where drinking a potion will not provoke an attack of opportunity from an opponent and critical hits of your enemies are not as deadly, reducing the randomness of fights. There will also be several different harder difficulties, where enemies will have their stats (and, consequently DCs for saves, AC, attacks and such) and health incresed by different amounts, for those of you who seek a greater challenge. Other difficulty settings include an easy mode, set between story and adapted rules. On top of that, many combat-related settings will be customizable. Don't like attacks of opportunity? No problem, just switch them off in the options. Most difficulty settings can also be changed in the middle of a fight.

You will also be able to choose from several AI behaviours for your party members, allowing them to use spells and abilities or spend resources on their own, should you so desire. As your characters level up, you will be able to select which among them will be following their pregenerated path and whose development you want to control by hand. For instance, you could level up your main character completely manually, but leave all your companions, or some of them, to develop according to their predestined builds. There will also be recommendations for many builds and play styles. Want a character to become a skilled archer? You can ask the game to point out recommended feats for archers in the level up interface. The game can even give you recommendations based on your previous choices! It's a little bit like shopping on the internet. "We see that you have taken Point-Blank Shot, you may also like: Precise Shot."

This concludes our first update on game mechanics. What do you think? Have you got feedback or questions for us? Why not drop by in the comments section and leave us a message? We're always happy to hear from you!

Reward tiers update

Paizo Inc. were awesome enough to add the Inner Sea World Guide PDF to the Lore Explorer reward package. Due to Kickstarter limitations, we cannot change existing reward tiers. Instead, we will close the current Lore Explorer tier and re-create it, so it will contain the new PDF as a reward.

If your pledge has already made you eligible for the Lore Explorer reward tier, don't worry! Every Lore Explorer, current and future ones alike, will gain access to the Inner Sea World Guide.

* All specific names are used only as reference to original Pathfinder Roleplaying Game (R) entities and could be subject to change in the Pathfinder:Kingmaker CRPG.

Hail to the kings!

Owlcats.

 

[Infinitron]

MCA definitely isn't writing their Kickstarter updates.

 

[Lilura]

Now, if reading about all of these features is making your head spin, because you may be hoping for a more casual experience, don't fret! If you just want to enjoy the game without worrying too much about mechanics, character planning and micro-management, you may always choose a lower difficulty setting. Our AI can help you control the characters in battle. There are pregenerated builds and recommendations for all the choices and options.

Difficulty settings will include a story mode

 

[HoboForEternity]

I dont mind "story mode" as long we can have real difficulty and challenge in the default setting.

Better that than making the game casual for everyone and end uo dumbing everythin down

 

[Musaab]

I pledged $140. I hope it's what they say it is. Also been playing a lot of Pathfinder Adventures Card Game on mobile, which I hear is now coming to Steam on the 15th. Looking forward to that.

Using some of that stolen turkish shekels to support russian comrades? :D

Stolen? My money is halal.

 

[ArchAngel]

I pledged $140. I hope it's what they say it is. Also been playing a lot of Pathfinder Adventures Card Game on mobile, which I hear is now coming to Steam on the 15th. Looking forward to that.

Using some of that stolen turkish shekels to support russian comrades? :D

Stolen? My money is halal.

Stolen from Kurds and Europe in the past

 

[ArchAngel]

Damage and enemy defenses will be greatly reduced in story mode, and some complex mechanical systems, such as attacks of opportunity, will be switched off for enemies. There will also be a core rules difficulty, which will adhere to tabletop Pathfinder as closely as possible - with attacks of opportunity on your archer that shoots in melee, friendly fire from area of effect spells and occasional deadly critical hits on your party.

Sensuki gets a heart attack

On top of that, many combat-related settings will be customizable. Don't like attacks of opportunity? No problem, just switch them off in the options. Most difficulty settings can also be changed in the middle of a fight.

Sensuki recovers

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Attacks of opportunity doesn't work a a game meachanic without 5-foot-step.
One should be absolutely retarded to not get it and implement attacks of opportunity without implementing 5-foot-step or similar mechanics.
But those are the guys who worked on Evil Island and Silent Storm, so surely they are not as braindead as western rpg designers.

 

[Iznaliu]

Stolen from Kurds

I though the Kurds would be too leftist for RPGCodex's tastes

 

[ArchAngel]

Attacks of opportunity doesn't work a a game meachanic without 5-foot-step.
One should be absolutely retarded to not get it and implement attacks of opportunity without implementing 5-foot-step or similar mechanics.
But those are the guys who worked on Evil Island and Silent Storm, so surely they are not as braindead as western rpg designers.

It kind of worked in NWN games where you also had Tumble skill. But you cannot tumble during using potions :D
Also in NWN you had casting defensively. But Archers are kind of screwed without 5 foot step although you should not be able to use bow effectively when a sword wielding guy is in your face and in P&P 5 foot was often an unfair bonus to archery.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

It worked in POE too if you use cheat engine to give you 100 in all stats the only problem was that npc aggroed at you randomly because your spells hit several screens away and those dumbasses aggro at you.
Had to skip half of quest in winter addon cause then you arrive in town you have to fight some trolls and all npc on street aggro at you.
Such a dumb design.

 

[btbgfel]

It worked in POE too if you use cheat engine to give you 100 in all stats the only problem was that npc aggroed at you randomly because your spells hit several screens away and those dumbasses aggro at you.
Had to skip half of quest in winter addon cause then you arrive in town you have to fight some trolls and all npc on street aggro at you.
Such a dumb design.

I uninstalled PoE a few months ago, but unless later patch changed it I remembered aoe bonus from INT didn't hurt non-hostiles.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

It worked in POE too if you use cheat engine to give you 100 in all stats the only problem was that npc aggroed at you randomly because your spells hit several screens away and those dumbasses aggro at you.
Had to skip half of quest in winter addon cause then you arrive in town you have to fight some trolls and all npc on street aggro at you.
Such a dumb design.

I uninstalled PoE a few months ago, but unless later patch changed it I remembered aoe bonus from INT didn't hurt non-hostiles.

I think they were hit by rolling boulders. Not sure how addition int affects them.

 

[ArchAngel]

New info and couple of gameplay videos. Looks cool. http://uk.ign.com/articles/2017/06/09/pathfinder-kingmaker-could-scratch-your-dd-rpg-itch

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/06/09/pathfinder-kingmaker-could-scratch-your-dd-rpg-itch

PATHFINDER: KINGMAKER COULD SCRATCH YOUR D&D RPG ITCH

Something's been missing from the recent spate of 1990s role-playing throwbacks: Dungeons & Dragons. While games like Pillars of Eternity certainly have their influences, the actual D&D rules of classics like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale haven't shown up in a major way. That's why it's a pretty big deal that Pathfinder--a popular adaptation of Dungeons & Dragons' 3.5 edition--has joined with video game developer Owlcat Games to make Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

This means we'll get a traditional fantasy world filled with dwarves, trolls, and half-elves; character classes like barbarians and clerics; and attributes like dexterity and constitution. Combined with an isometric game engine of pausable real-time tactics, just like Baldur's Gate and Pillars of Eternity, and a bunch of text and dialogue options, and Pathfinder: Kingmaker should, at the least, feel like comfort food for the RPG fan.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker does promise more than just comfort, however. Its biggest advantage may come from the "Kingmaker" part of its title. See, Pathfinder is famous for having "Adventure Paths" which are official multi-part stories that can run for months, and take player characters from being pathetic level one newbies to level 18 demigods.

So Adventure Paths come with an existing storyline and fanbase, and enough scope for an epic computer role-playing game (roughly 40 hours, Owlcat says, with up to twice that if you want to complete all the side quests). Kingmaker is one of the more popular Adventure Paths, with the interesting premise of your character becoming the baron of the newly reclaimed "Stolen Lands," and trying to rebuild them and defend against external forces.

For Owlcat Creative Director Alexander Mishulin, one of the advantages is that it creates a kind of kingdom-level layer to the game, where the players make strategic decisions and this manifests as the kingdom being "like another companion" in the game. I got to see a bit of this in the section of Kingmaker that I was able to play; it began with my Baroness being asked where to assign my too-few guards in the new lands, as well as dealing with unruly diplomats from powerful neighbors.

With many RPGs, semi-strategic decisions like these tend to be linear event chains. That's not entirely the case here as, according to Mishulin, a series of events have the potential to happen that will affect your barony, but when they fire might change randomly, and therefore have different effects. If this works, and the kingdom layer does end up having significant effects on the overall game, that should be a big benefit to Kingmaker's appeal.

Owlcat has also brought on well-respected games writer Chris Avellone to help tell the story of Kingmaker. Avellone is famous for his work on classic RPGs like Planescape: Torment and Knights of the Old Republic 2, which are highly regarded for their complex character and faction interactions. That's something they want to do well in Kingmaker as well, which I saw a bit of as I played.

Most every choice I made trended my character down a path of the D&D alignment system. Be nice to someone, lean toward Good, do something for the fun of it, get a few points down the Chaotic path. This is combined with specific decisions that can change party members' relationship with you. In one quest, my party met a helpful mage who was performing experiments on live trolls. His info was necessary for my quest, but one of my party members threw a fit about his torture of sentient creatures. If I didn't order him to release his prisoners, our relationship would be damaged.

In many RPGs, a situation like that could be avoided by leaving party members whose ethics the player might disagree with behind, but that's another aspect of Kingmaker with a slight twist. According to Mishulin, your companions don't exist only when bring them out of storage for adventures, but, if not joining you on the campaign trail, will stay at home in charge of your castle. So if you take all your Evil companions out so that the Good ones don't yell at you for being a creep, those do-gooders may end up ruining your dastardly plans by their acts at home.

Like much of the rest of Pathfinder: Kingmaker, what seems to be a comfortable, generic RPG trope has the promise of a little extra depth. Almost everything I asked about in terms of story seemed to have a layer beyond what I expected--the advantage of having years of tabletop playtesting, perhaps. If these different aspects of Kingmaker can coalesce into a dramatic whole, this could be special.

That's important because from what I played, Kingmaker doesn't appear to be breaking new ground in the isometric RPG genre. If you've played one of these, from Baldur's Gate to Tyranny just a few months ago, you probably know the drill. If not, these are real-time with pause tactical games, where combat starts, your characters all charge off into the fray, and you hope that you don't accidentally nuke your barbarian with a stray fireball.

I didn't get the chance to see much of the inventory (it wasn't finished), which can definitely be a problem in games where you manage six characters at once. The combat seemed slightly slower-paced than its peers--there were moments where I found myself waiting for the ticks of a D&D "turn" to go through. On the other hand, the party AI didn't end up casting any accidental fireballs that ruined my combat, which is a major positive. (It's entirely possible that there's hidden depth to the combat system that I didn't have time to get to, and isn't easily explained like narrative is, of course.)

Pathfinder: Kingmaker is aimed at a release roughly nine months from now. Fans looking for a deep, traditional RPG will want to keep an eye on its progress.

Huh, they've even got Tyranny-style dialogue tooltips.

 

[ArchAngel]

And they got PoE type "Book" events with skill checks during them.

 

[Infinitron]

Also, prose in the middle of dialogue. I thought Chris Avellone was against that now? Definitely lots of Obsidian copycatting here (which is fine by me)

 

[vonAchdorf]

Looks surprisingly good if you ignore for a moment that it's Pathfinder.

 

[ArchAngel]

Also, prose in the middle of dialogue. I thought Chris Avellone was against that now? Definitely lots of Obsidian copycatting here (which is fine by me)

That is only bad if they plan to VA what characters say. If it is going to be more like BG, than that is awesome.

 

[Azarkon]

"Stop copying Obsidian's style of dialogue," Azarkon muttered under his breath, a grimace creasing the edges of his ragged face, worn by years of disappointment. He flicks a finger to the chrome-encrusted screen. "Don't make it seem even more legitimate than it already is."

 

[Ent]

Why isn't hovering over the green word giving me an info box? Fix that shit immediately.