KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lilura]

there is reason for hope.

 

[Quillon]

And what legend of the industry has managed to extend their prestige into the current gen?

Todd Howard ofc.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Being excited because of SS among an ocean of russian shovelware... do you even know if any of those people had a relevant position is the development of that game?
Also, game is RTwP so it's irrelevant if they did turn-based games at some point.

 

[laclongquan]

there is reason for hope.

You, girl, are lacking coffee. And whiskey. and triple Irish Coffee. You will feel optimistic again.

 

[Jimmious]

Pfffff I would be excited if it was TB. Now I'm only mildly interested to see what will come up.

 

[Roguey]

Being excited because of SS among an ocean of russian shovelware... do you even know if any of those people had a relevant position is the development of that game?
Also, game is RTwP so it's irrelevant if they did turn-based games at some point.

The creative director was in fact one of the lead designers of Silent Storm (the art director too, not that that's important other than explaining that generic is in his blood). But he's worked on garbage as well, like Night Watch.

 

[laclongquan]

I think I installed Night Watch but the bugs stopped me playing. buttcold~

 

[santino27]

I'll check it out because I don't mind RTwP and I'm always happy for more isometric party-based RPGs. Obviously, the devil will be in the details, but since we don't know any of those details now... shrug? A more involved (than the usual stronhold trope at least) ruler-sim married to an RPG sounds like it could be interesting.

 

[LESS T_T]

Brief Q&As on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/user/Thainen
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/6borv0/we_are_making_a_pathfinder_kingmaker_crpg/

More Q&As:

Swordlords?

Well, of course -- they are a major political force in the region, after all. The player gets the initial quest from Jamandi Aldori, and later meets some others swordlords, both Brevoy and Mivoni.

We aim for high replayability. It's impossible to make a videogame as infinitely variable as a game with a living GM, but the situations player encounters will have different solutions, both peaceful and violent, with different short-term and long-term outcomes. Alignment is a major feature too, with options opening and closing depending on your current alignment and past actions.

No, it's a completely different genre. We're making an RPG with some strategy elements, not a grand strategy. A game like Crusader Kings set in Golarion would be awesome, but it's not the game we are making

We'll reveal the alignment mechanic very soon. For now I can say that you'll be able to play any alignment you like, to become a beloved hero of your people or a dreaded tyrant, and to choose your party members accordingly.

Brace for the impact:

Owlcat, as you know it is popular now in game development community to add SJW stuff into their products. And despite all my love to Paizo, they are sick with that mental illnes.

Please resist if they will try to force you to implement shit like this. Do not make most of mighty fightery characters female, do not make more than one male characters gay and there is no need in trans dwarven shaman at all.

Please

Now that's a minefield of a question. This depends on how exactly you define "SJW stuff" -- for some people it's anything less hyper-masculine than Conan the Barbarian with illustrations by Boris Vallejo I heard people calling Furiosa "too feminist" and ruining the new Mad Max movie. For them, probably, the mere existence of Amiri -- the iconic barbarian woman who was exiled from her tribe for being a warrior rather than a housewife, and has been kicking major ass ever since -- would be "SJW stuff" too.

Let me put it this way: our top priority is to tell a good high fantasy story, and we are not planning to ruin it just to preach some real-life politics. On the other hand, we aren't going to pretend that women are less fit to be heroes than men, or that LGBT people somehow don't exist.

I'm afraid, I'm not qualified to discuss the studio's political stance The game will (it already does) include strong female characters, as well as POC and LGBT people. But it's not Deus Ex, Bioshock, Papers Please or That Dragon, Cancer: we are not making it to take a stand on a real-life issue. Of course, nothing is politics-free, but not everything is focused on politics.

There is a lot of toxicity in the gaming culture, but, again, we are not here to join one of the many sides of the holywar. We just want to make a good game everyone can enjoy. We respect and value every voice in the community, but reserve the right to hold to our own vision.

And from Paizo's official forum: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucs9?Pathfinder-Kingmaker-Announced

Obsidian still has the rights to do their own CRPG, but they are non-exclusive. Owl Cat Games is a part of my.com, which has done a ton of games over the years. Here is some info from their Wikipedia page.

Owl Cat Games will be at PaizoCon in just a few short days and they have a playable demo of the game already set to go. We got to play it here in the offices a few months back and everybody was impressed.

Very happy that we are finally going to be able to scratch that CRPG itch!

At this point it will be for PC. May be expanded.

But please tell us why there will be no turn-based combat ?

When you play the Pen&Paper game you see how it works and it is only the natural decision to use it instead of real-time with pause.

I can tell you that we had long, heated discussions on the merits of both approaches, with team members arguing and even switching sides multiple times. We made a decision to go with real-time in the end, and rest assured we didn't make it lightly.

 

[Jimmious]

The anti-SJW bull-crap is becoming too annoying. It's like people don't even care about the actual games anymore, they're just interested into how "gay" the characters are... as if they're gonna suck their dicks or something. FFS.

"Do not make most of mighty fightery characters female, do not make more than one male characters gay and there is no need in trans dwarven shaman at all."
Ok so we're fine with up to one gay male character, more than that its "SJW stuff" and we hate it. Trans dwarven shaman rofl. What the fuck.
...They can add a thousand gay warlords for all I care, if there is come context. The problem is only when they do these things completely out of context, just to have these characters in the game.

 

[ArchAngel]

Looking forward to people's impressions from playing that demo. Also hopefully some video of it surfaces as well.

 

[Bibbimbop]

The anti-SJW bull-crap is becoming too annoying. It's like people don't even care about the actual games anymore, they're just interested into how "gay" the characters are... as if they're gonna suck their dicks or something. FFS.

"Do not make most of mighty fightery characters female, do not make more than one male characters gay and there is no need in trans dwarven shaman at all."
Ok so we're fine with up to one gay male character, more than that its "SJW stuff" and we hate it. Trans dwarven shaman rofl. What the fuck.
...They can add a thousand gay warlords for all I care, if there is come context. The problem is only when they do these things completely out of context, just to have these characters in the game.

Apparently, story is important to you, because you argue that this weird crap just needs to be put in context within the story.

Okay, but then you're immersed in an elaborately-written story, centred around believably including a parade of SJW cocksuckery, and therefore you must be able to enjoy that shit on some level. Gays are only 2% of the population; Transexuals are even fewer; women who can stand toe-to-toe with an average man are fewer still than those. You will only get these themes coherently thrown together if you focus on seeking out feminist fiction, not if you like broader themes that somehow get crammed with unlikely and unnatural situations.

I could understand an no-nonsense argument from a combat-oriented player who ignores all the story. "Who cares about story! I only see numbers!" He doesn't even notice the weird shit.

You, on the other hand, are like, "I love story and context! I don't mind the characters being a bunch of unnatural freaks and degenerates, just so long as there's a really queer and unnatural story about all of their degeneracy so that I can really enjoy reading about modern feminism and gender fluidity in a game set in pseudo-medieval societies."

Random political bullshit about unnatural lifestyles can only be added randomly and unnaturally. By definition.

we aren't going to pretend that women are less fit to be heroes than men

There is a lot of toxicity in the gaming culture, but, again, we are not here to join one of the many sides of the holywar.

Lol. Women are obviously less fit to be heroes. They're also less likely to play this kind of game. Any of the male feminists wanting to play a warrior woman in this game could easily go outside and bitchslap any random real woman on the street without much danger of losing a fight to her... and that's just the most unwanted dregs of the male population. The developers did a bitch move of picking a side while being too weak to state it openly.

 

[ArchAngel]

Heroes by definition are a super small part of population, something like 0,1% or less.
There is no reason why in a magical world women cannot be as good heroes or adventurers. In your brain you are thinking soldiers where I agree women are worse.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Paizo is a declared SJW company and Pathfinder has long been peddling inclusiveness. So of course there will be SJWism in the game, but I agree with Jimmious, that it's often uncalled for to bother the developers and play truffle hog to unearth every possible "politicization", especially, if like in this case, the devs aren't known for pushing an agenda.
I'm far from neutral but I still think being anti-SJW doesn't mean to be constantly on the lookout to spot political impurity. (And people loving Pathfinder and Paizo, but admonish the devs to cut the SJW crap, are kinda hypocritical.)

 

[Alex]

And we still dont have a 4e rpg, a system literally built for this kind of SHIT.

(snip...)

You have a very common misconception about 4e. D&D wasn't built for this or that kind of shit. It is just shit period.

 

[Drowed]

There is no reason why in a magical world women cannot be as good heroes or adventurers.

Well, men have a natural boost in physical strength for purely biological reasons, so even in a magical world, certain innate tendencies wouldn't change (unless you believe that women in this world have an innate magic bonus of + 20% in strength).

But you could probably make a good argument that "women are more likely to be wizards" as a matter of affinity if you justify this well into the setting.

 

[ArchAngel]

There is no reason why in a magical world women cannot be as good heroes or adventurers.

Well, men have a natural boost in physical strength for purely biological reasons, so even in a magical world, certain innate tendencies wouldn't change (unless you believe that women in this world have an innate magic bonus of + 20% in strength).

But you could probably make a good argument that "women are more likely to be wizards" as a matter of affinity if you justify this well into the setting.

Fighters and Barbarians live and die by their physical prowess. All other classes depend more on other skills where women can excel just as well. Not every woman, but those 0.1% certainly can.

 

[vonAchdorf]

I think in a system, where an archetype uses Cloud's Buster sword, making this archetype a women doesn't really hurt the suspension of disbelief anymore than if it was a man.

 

[Ringhausen]

Avellone has probably creatively dried up, that's why he hasn't written anything real since Kotor 2.

If he can make money giving advice to people then good for him, but no point in getting excited just because he's in the credits.

 

[Reinhardt]

Even woman can use gauntlets of ogre power.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The anti-SJW bull-crap is becoming too annoying. It's like people don't even care about the actual games anymore, they're just interested into how "gay" the characters are... as if they're gonna suck their dicks or something. FFS.

"Do not make most of mighty fightery characters female, do not make more than one male characters gay and there is no need in trans dwarven shaman at all."
Ok so we're fine with up to one gay male character, more than that its "SJW stuff" and we hate it. Trans dwarven shaman rofl. What the fuck.
...They can add a thousand gay warlords for all I care, if there is come context. The problem is only when they do these things completely out of context, just to have these characters in the game.

Yeah, whoever wrote that is beyond retarded, on the same level as the SJW themselves. Essentially begging and crying just like they do.

Sounds a bit like that dumbfuck ruskie Fenix from here.

And no more than one gay character? WTF? He can take one but two would break his immersion or what?

Also, yes, if the first thing you ask about when you hear about a game is if has SJW crap in it, then you are pretty much on the same level as the SJW. That's the first thing they care about too. Yes, one wants it, one doesn't, so what as long it's still your central point of interest.

 

[Roguey]

Any of the male feminists wanting to play a warrior woman in this game could easily go outside and bitchslap any random real woman on the street without much danger of losing a fight to her

It's not feminist, it's a fetish.

 

[Riddler]

One point could perhaps be that there is a difference between heroes and up and coming adventurers. While it is true that heroes constitute a very low percentage of the population new adventurers can hardly be considered to be heroes. Starting quests are often of the nature that they could very well be undertaken by the city guard, which probably would be almost exclusively male if we have a faux mediaval world. A random female walking up and suggesting that she could solve the problem at hand (killing a bunch of goblins for instance) should be met with at least a raised eyebrow, not the least from people in many of the backwater places you often start out. The same goes for seemingly incapable males as well, would some lanky ass rogue without any reputation be able to kill a tribe of goblins? A bulky barbarian or well-armoured fighter might inspire some confidence but I doubt someone who is not overtly displaying prowess would.

In the end it's just about responsiveness of the world to the player. If I'm playing something unlikely then I want a response! If I'm playing a halfling barbarian I want some reactions because that is strange and rare, not some lame mega-cosmopolitan attitude where people just accept uncommon things as normal for no reason. This goes for all races, classes and whatever. If some PoC shows up in faux early medival Europe I want to know why, it's a potentially interesting story I want to hear. Is he a trader or ambassador? Was he a slave? Is he a mercenary for someone important perhaps?

Regarding the distribution of who exactly are adventurers I have two thoughts. First of, regardless of whether women are capable or not to be adventurers it makes little sense that they would be as numerous. Adventuring is extremely dangerous and while men are considered largely are expendable, women are not. Throughout humanity's history every single successful society has protected their females fiercely, actively putting them out of harm's way, and for very good reason. This makes regular females unlikely candidates for being adventurers which would reduce their numbers. Its not just about capability but also who society deems it can afford to lose.

HBTQ people on the other hand, and trans people in particular, seems like prime candidates for becoming adventurers. Social outcasts with little reproductive capability/interest seems like the people societies would push towards "adventures". They have a hard time creating dynasties and far lesser incentives to settle down.

So while regular females should be expected to be underrepresented I feel like HBTQ people should be very over-represented perhaps to a degree that people expect that adventurers are HBTQ or misfits in some other way, since they have chosen life largely outside civilised society.

Perhaps all this is stupid but what I think many get at when they panic about the inclusion of what they perceive as SJW propaganda in games is the reduction of internal consistency in the world and the loss of immersion. There are a lot of ways alternative world's could work and I believe most people are ok with almost anything as long as there is some justifications for the differences/andOr the general setup of the world. It's the awkward and brain-dead middle-point that really bothers people, not the least because it often is preachy.

 

[Reinhardt]

Starting quests are often of the nature that they could very well be undertaken by the city guard

City guards don't kill rats.

 

[ArchAngel]

One point could perhaps be that there is a difference between heroes and up and coming adventurers. While it is true that heroes constitute a very low percentage of the population new adventurers can hardly be considered to be heroes. Starting quests are often of the nature that they could very well be undertaken by the city guard, which probably would be almost exclusively male if we have a faux mediaval world. A random female walking up and suggesting that she could solve the problem at hand (killing a bunch of goblins for instance) should be met with at least a raised eyebrow, not the least from people in many of the backwater places you often start out. The same goes for seemingly incapable males as well, would some lanky ass rogue without any reputation be able to kill a tribe of goblins? A bulky barbarian or well-armoured fighter might inspire some confidence but I doubt someone who is not overtly displaying prowess would.

In the end it's just about responsiveness of the world to the player. If I'm playing something unlikely then I want a response! If I'm playing a halfling barbarian I want some reactions because that is strange and rare, not some lame mega-cosmopolitan attitude where people just accept uncommon things as normal for no reason. This goes for all races, classes and whatever. If some PoC shows up in faux early medival Europe I want to know why, it's a potentially interesting story I want to hear. Is he a trader or ambassador? Was he a slave? Is he a mercenary for someone important perhaps?

Regarding the distribution of who exactly are adventurers I have two thoughts. First of, regardless of whether women are capable or not to be adventurers it makes little sense that they would be as numerous. Adventuring is extremely dangerous and while men are considered largely are expendable, women are not. Throughout humanity's history every single successful society has protected their females fiercely, actively putting them out of harm's way, and for very good reason. This makes regular females unlikely candidates for being adventurers which would reduce their numbers. Its not just about capability but also who society deems it can afford to lose.

HBTQ people on the other hand, and trans people in particular, seems like prime candidates for becoming adventurers. Social outcasts with little reproductive capability/interest seems like the people societies would push towards "adventures". They have a hard time creating dynasties and far lesser incentives to settle down.

So while regular females should be expected to be underrepresented I feel like HBTQ people should be very over-represented perhaps to a degree that people expect that adventurers are HBTQ or misfits in some other way, since they have chosen life largely outside civilised society.

Perhaps all this is stupid but what I think many get at when they panic about the inclusion of what they perceive as SJW propaganda in games is the reduction of internal consistency in the world and the loss of immersion. There are a lot of ways alternative world's could work and I believe most people are ok with almost anything as long as there is some justifications for the differences/andOr the general setup of the world. It's the awkward and brain-dead middle-point that really bothers people, not the least because it often is preachy.

In D&D and Pathfinder adventurers are a different group of people than random warrior or guard which is represented by them having regular PC classes while NPCs have weaker NPC classes. This is to show that each adventurer stands apart from average member of it species. Even if their fail and die early they had potential above and beyond others, no matter the race, sex or sexual preference of said individual.

The part about protecting women does not apply here, these are not military organizations and such that recruit women in bigger numbers. These are few women here and there that for various reasons decided to follow a calling. And each and every adventurer has a background that is beyond "I joined a closest war and learned to fight there", even for Fighter ones.