Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[FreeKaner]

Definitely, it is a strength of the system. They have hybrid classes and subclasses and multiclass options and prestige classes for every step of a character idea you can think of. Unfortunately I also think that's where the statbloat partially comes from, as they have to compensate for munchkin potential.

 

[Bara]

because there is no reload in the pnp nor 6 man parties.

Six man parties are tolerable/doable in pathfinder or 5e but I how it can be a headache to people. However for Old-school D&D especially B/X it was very much a thing to have six to eight man groups.

It depends on how good the rules system for it to work well with larger groups.

 

[Pink Eye]

Definitely, it is a strength of the system. They have hybrid classes and subclasses and multiclass options and prestige classes for every step of a character idea you can think of. Unfortunately I also think that's where the statbloat partially comes from, as they have to compensate for munchkin potential.

>as they have to compensate for munchkin potential.
And that is ignoring the obscene magical loot that is handed to the player like candy. I've come to somewhat admire Pillars of Eternity's restraint, when it came to itemization - you had to play around with resting bonuses and food. But still it wasn't as bad as Kingmaker's magical loot bloat.

because there is no reload in the pnp nor 6 man parties.

Six man parties are tolerable/doable in pathfinder or 5e but I how it can be a headache to people. However for Old-school D&D especially B/X it was very much a thing to have six to eight man groups.

It depends on how good the rules system for it to work well with larger groups.

Dark Sun had it figured out with four man parties.

 

[fantadomat]

I use difficulty to make the game both enjoyable and sensible. In PoE, I used POTD difficulty because that's how the game is enjoyable. In PFK I used essentially the core rules with default stats on enemies because I don't want to see bandits with 40ac and stats were bloated in the game as it is.

Statbloating enemies is just a lazy way to increase difficulty. Encounter design to make the fights you have tactical questions is how it should be done. In absence of that, it is better to increase the number of enemies and add a greater variety than to have few enemies with insane stats, except when that makes sense of course.

I doubt I will play this one with anything but core rules and without any stat boosts as well.

I generally like the core rules,as long as there is an option for the max hp per level up. Really dislike the RnG focus of D&D.

 

[NJClaw]

I generally like the core rules,as long as there is an option for the max hp per level up. Really dislike the RnG focus of D&D.

Ah, I see. Monsters should abide by core rules, but characters should be allowed to cheat.

There is a standard rule to gain HP on level ups without rolling any dice: you take the average and go on with your life. Max HP on each level up is like invincibility mode.

 

[fantadomat]

because there is no reload in the pnp nor 6 man parties.

Six man parties are tolerable/doable in pathfinder or 5e but I how it can be a headache to people. However for Old-school D&D especially B/X it was very much a thing to have six to eight man groups.

It depends on how good the rules system for it to work well with larger groups.

Six people party is better because it covers the four basic needs of rogue,melee specialist,cleric and wiz. The other two slots are left open for experimentation or companions that you just like even if they are useless. Four people is fine if the game has no companions and it just full party creation. If it has companions it really locks you down in a very stupid way.

 

[fantadomat]

I generally like the core rules,as long as there is an option for the max hp per level up. Really dislike the RnG focus of D&D.

Ah, I see. Monsters should abide by core rules, but characters should be allowed to cheat.

There is a standard rule to gain HP on level ups without rolling any dice: you take the average and go on with your life. Max HP on each level up is like invincibility mode.

Ahhh don't mind if monsters also get max hp per level lol. Also don't mind cheating buahahahah,i do lack the moral scruples about it lol. If it gets me ahead in life,i wouldn't mind back stabbing someone i dislike. Oh and saying that i cheat is a compliment for me....so thanks, BoyToyLover69

 

[Tacgnol]

And that is ignoring the obscene magical loot that is handed to the player like candy. I've come to somewhat admire Pillars of Eternity's restraint, when it came to itemization - you had to play around with resting bonuses and food. But still it wasn't as bad as Kingmaker's magical loot bloat.

I never understood why Owlcat felt the need to add even more powerful items over the base ruleset.

Things like +8 belts and headbands. Uber merged items that give you all the benefits in a slot that you would normally have to sacrifice other stats for (so many items in Kingmaker replicate the cloak of resistance but in other slots for instance).

High level play is already filled with overpowered equipment, there was no need to make it even more overpowered.

 

[BING XI LAO]

because there is no reload in the pnp nor 6 man parties.

Six man parties are tolerable/doable in pathfinder or 5e but I how it can be a headache to people. However for Old-school D&D especially B/X it was very much a thing to have six to eight man groups.

It depends on how good the rules system for it to work well with larger groups.

Six people party is better because it covers the four basic needs of rogue,melee specialist,cleric and wiz. The other two slots are left open for experimentation or companions that you just like even if they are useless. Four people is fine if the game has no companions and it just full party creation. If it has companions it really locks you down in a very stupid way.

I prefer having a smaller and more lopsided party myself. If there's enough space to have everything, it has less of an identity.

 

[Tacgnol]

because there is no reload in the pnp nor 6 man parties.

Six man parties are tolerable/doable in pathfinder or 5e but I how it can be a headache to people. However for Old-school D&D especially B/X it was very much a thing to have six to eight man groups.

It depends on how good the rules system for it to work well with larger groups.

Six people party is better because it covers the four basic needs of rogue,melee specialist,cleric and wiz. The other two slots are left open for experimentation or companions that you just like even if they are useless. Four people is fine if the game has no companions and it just full party creation. If it has companions it really locks you down in a very stupid way.

I prefer having a smaller and more lopsided party myself. If there's enough space to have everything, it has less of an identity.

One of the most fun things on the tabletop is compensating for a missing specialist.

I've been in plenty of campaigns without a rogue or trap disarmer for instance. It requires a bit of creativity.

 

[fantadomat]

And that is ignoring the obscene magical loot that is handed to the player like candy. I've come to somewhat admire Pillars of Eternity's restraint, when it came to itemization - you had to play around with resting bonuses and food. But still it wasn't as bad as Kingmaker's magical loot bloat.

I never understood why Owlcat felt the need to add even more powerful items over the base ruleset.

Things like +8 belts and headbands. Uber merged items that give you all the benefits in a slot that you would normally have to sacrifice other stats for (so many items in Kingmaker replicate the cloak of resistance but in other slots for instance).

High level play is already filled with overpowered equipment, there was no need to make it even more overpowered.

Why not? It gives you like +1 damage compared to the +6 item. It is not a game breaking item. They made it so that there will be an item level ups trough out the game. It is boring when mid game you already have all the good shit and never bother changing it. Most of the item in kingmaker were pretty muh,the game have far too many items that give you useless ability. I really hate those items because of how useless the ability is. In those games you have a dedicated X/Y people that do one thing but good. Putting a belt that lets you do a fireball 3 times a day is waste of space. Your wiz has a lot better spells and his fb are better,the other people do other important shit in the fight,so also no point in doing it. I won't lose a fucking round of backstabbing on me rogue so i could throw a shitty fire cracker.

 

[AliceAlcina]

what is best weapon for str skald and is there use for shield and weapon while playing skald?

 

[fantadomat]

because there is no reload in the pnp nor 6 man parties.

Six man parties are tolerable/doable in pathfinder or 5e but I how it can be a headache to people. However for Old-school D&D especially B/X it was very much a thing to have six to eight man groups.

It depends on how good the rules system for it to work well with larger groups.

Six people party is better because it covers the four basic needs of rogue,melee specialist,cleric and wiz. The other two slots are left open for experimentation or companions that you just like even if they are useless. Four people is fine if the game has no companions and it just full party creation. If it has companions it really locks you down in a very stupid way.

I prefer having a smaller and more lopsided party myself. If there's enough space to have everything, it has less of an identity.

Hmm i don't really agree with that. It kind off doesn't really make sense. I would like to see a game where you bring all the companions with you and not just a few people. It will allow for a lot bigger and epic fights. Did you play dungeon of naheulbeuk? The game really did the whole mega party well,even if there isn't much of big fights,still has a challenge early on.

 

[Pink Eye]

And that is ignoring the obscene magical loot that is handed to the player like candy. I've come to somewhat admire Pillars of Eternity's restraint, when it came to itemization - you had to play around with resting bonuses and food. But still it wasn't as bad as Kingmaker's magical loot bloat.

I never understood why Owlcat felt the need to add even more powerful items over the base ruleset.

Things like +8 belts and headbands. Uber merged items that give you all the benefits in a slot that you would normally have to sacrifice other stats for (so many items in Kingmaker replicate the cloak of resistance but in other slots for instance).

High level play is already filled with overpowered equipment, there was no need to make it even more overpowered.

High level play is always going to be ludicrous in Pathfinder. That's just how the rule set is. You can counter munchkin play, by throwing multiclass optimized abomination enemies at the player. The problem is its item progression. You can't be throwing magical loot at the player like it's nothing. Or at least wait until they reach mid to late game before you do.

 

[Pink Eye]

because there is no reload in the pnp nor 6 man parties.

Six man parties are tolerable/doable in pathfinder or 5e but I how it can be a headache to people. However for Old-school D&D especially B/X it was very much a thing to have six to eight man groups.

It depends on how good the rules system for it to work well with larger groups.

Six people party is better because it covers the four basic needs of rogue,melee specialist,cleric and wiz. The other two slots are left open for experimentation or companions that you just like even if they are useless. Four people is fine if the game has no companions and it just full party creation. If it has companions it really locks you down in a very stupid way.

I prefer having a smaller and more lopsided party myself. If there's enough space to have everything, it has less of an identity.

Hmm i don't really agree with that. It kind off doesn't really make sense. I would like to see a game where you bring all the companions with you and not just a few people. It will allow for a lot bigger and epic fights. Did you play dungeon of naheulbeuk? The game really did the whole mega party well,even if there isn't much of big fights,still has a challenge early on.

>I would like to see a game where you bring all the companions with you and not just a few people. It will allow for a lot bigger and epic fights.
I don't agree. I'd rather more games embraced four man parties. Both Dark Sun and Knights of the Chalice managed to create big epic fights with just four man parties. I'd rather small parties, instead of six man parties. It feels more balanced, and lessens micro.
For example, the final fight in Dark Sun Shattered Lands is wave after wave of huge enemies. It has spell casters, archers, melee units, and monsters. The real challenge was figuring out how to make the best of your resources, with the small amount of people you have. While making sure you're ready for the next wave. It's three waves in total, but you can make it two waves with a wish from a genie.

Spoiler

Knights of the Chalice also had you fighting an epic dragon with its own mini army.

Spoiler

 

[fantadomat]

And that is ignoring the obscene magical loot that is handed to the player like candy. I've come to somewhat admire Pillars of Eternity's restraint, when it came to itemization - you had to play around with resting bonuses and food. But still it wasn't as bad as Kingmaker's magical loot bloat.

I never understood why Owlcat felt the need to add even more powerful items over the base ruleset.

Things like +8 belts and headbands. Uber merged items that give you all the benefits in a slot that you would normally have to sacrifice other stats for (so many items in Kingmaker replicate the cloak of resistance but in other slots for instance).

High level play is already filled with overpowered equipment, there was no need to make it even more overpowered.

High level play is always going to be ludicrous in Pathfinder. That's just how the rule set is. You can counter munchkin play, by throwing multiclass optimized abomination enemies at the player. The problem is its item progression. You can't be throwing magical loot at the player like it's nothing. Or at least wait until they reach mid to late game before you do.

Ahh D&D likes to tend to have pretty weak legendary enemies like gods or supper wiz and such. The player and the party are just too strong in that aspect,that is why late game ends up shit in every such game. Besides devs tend to try and just copy/paste tabletop to pc,which is pretty bad thing. Tabletop rules don't translate well in to pc.

 

[fantadomat]

because there is no reload in the pnp nor 6 man parties.

Six man parties are tolerable/doable in pathfinder or 5e but I how it can be a headache to people. However for Old-school D&D especially B/X it was very much a thing to have six to eight man groups.

It depends on how good the rules system for it to work well with larger groups.

Six people party is better because it covers the four basic needs of rogue,melee specialist,cleric and wiz. The other two slots are left open for experimentation or companions that you just like even if they are useless. Four people is fine if the game has no companions and it just full party creation. If it has companions it really locks you down in a very stupid way.

I prefer having a smaller and more lopsided party myself. If there's enough space to have everything, it has less of an identity.

Hmm i don't really agree with that. It kind off doesn't really make sense. I would like to see a game where you bring all the companions with you and not just a few people. It will allow for a lot bigger and epic fights. Did you play dungeon of naheulbeuk? The game really did the whole mega party well,even if there isn't much of big fights,still has a challenge early on.

>I would like to see a game where you bring all the companions with you and not just a few people. It will allow for a lot bigger and epic fights.
I don't agree. I'd rather more games embraced four man parties. Both Dark Sun and Knights of the Chalice managed to create big epic fights with just four man parties. I'd rather small parties, instead of six man parties. It feels more balanced, and lessens micro.
For example, the final fight in Dark Sun Shattered Lands is wave after wave of huge enemies. It has spell casters, archers, melee units, and monsters. The real challenge was figuring out how to make the best of your resources, with the small amount of people you have. While making sure you're ready for the next wave. It's three waves in total, but you can make it two waves with a wish from a genie.

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/MoNXUtoiXec

Knights of the Chalice also had you fighting an epic dragon with its own mini army.

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/za3t5xwAo-c

Those are not really epic,more like tedious ones. RPG genre needs to evolve a bit,i am tired of seeing the same generic type of combat.

You do get what you want,there is a shit ton of games that give you four people party tb generic combat,go play they to your heart content. What i wish to see is something rare and maybe unique. Sooo in the end you are just a greedy cunt that only wish more of the same jizz.

 

[Pink Eye]

because there is no reload in the pnp nor 6 man parties.

Six man parties are tolerable/doable in pathfinder or 5e but I how it can be a headache to people. However for Old-school D&D especially B/X it was very much a thing to have six to eight man groups.

It depends on how good the rules system for it to work well with larger groups.

Six people party is better because it covers the four basic needs of rogue,melee specialist,cleric and wiz. The other two slots are left open for experimentation or companions that you just like even if they are useless. Four people is fine if the game has no companions and it just full party creation. If it has companions it really locks you down in a very stupid way.

I prefer having a smaller and more lopsided party myself. If there's enough space to have everything, it has less of an identity.

Hmm i don't really agree with that. It kind off doesn't really make sense. I would like to see a game where you bring all the companions with you and not just a few people. It will allow for a lot bigger and epic fights. Did you play dungeon of naheulbeuk? The game really did the whole mega party well,even if there isn't much of big fights,still has a challenge early on.

>I would like to see a game where you bring all the companions with you and not just a few people. It will allow for a lot bigger and epic fights.
I don't agree. I'd rather more games embraced four man parties. Both Dark Sun and Knights of the Chalice managed to create big epic fights with just four man parties. I'd rather small parties, instead of six man parties. It feels more balanced, and lessens micro.
For example, the final fight in Dark Sun Shattered Lands is wave after wave of huge enemies. It has spell casters, archers, melee units, and monsters. The real challenge was figuring out how to make the best of your resources, with the small amount of people you have. While making sure you're ready for the next wave. It's three waves in total, but you can make it two waves with a wish from a genie.

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/MoNXUtoiXec

Knights of the Chalice also had you fighting an epic dragon with its own mini army.

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/za3t5xwAo-c

Those are not really epic,more like tedious ones. ROG genre needs to evolve a bit,i am tired of seeing the same generic type of combat.

You do get what you want,there is a shit ton of games that give you four people party tb generic combat,go play they to your heart content. What i wish to see is something rare and maybe unique. Sooo in the end you are just a greedy cunt that only wish more of the same jizz.

Depends on your definition on what "epic" entails. In any case, you're implying that games can't create engaging fights with small parties. They can. Multiple games have.

>i am tired of seeing the same generic type of combat.
Hey, what are you doing talking about this game then? This game is the same old six man generic combat, with somehow an even clunky gameplay.

 

[fantadomat]

Depends on your definition on what "epic" entails. In any case, you're implying that games can't create engaging fights with small parties. They can. Multiple games have.

Not really,you could have engaging fights no matter the party size. But with bigger party you could have a multi layered split party battles with a hundred soldiers as enemy. The bigger your party the more options are opened for engagement. If you have 10 people party you could have a two dragon fight and so on.

>i am tired of seeing the same generic type of combat.
Hey, what are you doing talking about this game then? This game is the same old six man generic combat, with somehow an even clunky gameplay.

>i am tired of seeing the same generic type of combat.
Hey, what are you doing talking about this game then? This game is the same old six man generic combat, with somehow an even clunky gameplay.

Ahh so why do want it to become even more generic with four people party limit ???
At least six has enough of variations to open up the game a bit. You are the one that wants to restrict the game because he can't keep up with more things going on. While i am arguing that it will be fun if there is a game where you end up commanding 10 people and killing armies and shit lol.

 

[Shadenuat]

Still for complete steam noobs classes don't say what stat u need to cast spells. Stats do but not all class kits are same. There are some plackets ala divine caster but not all classes have them (alchemist doesnt). And on russian it looks even weirder ala сакральный заклинатель.
Don't think HP dice is also shown anywhere.

There is no "recommended" button for a stat spread for total nubs either.

You can dump your casting stats to 7 and still pick spells game won't say anything.

A lot of class descriptions really don't explain anything, it's just some fluff, especially obvious on russian language. I remember even in some nwn1 or some old RPGs they'd write "your casting stat is X". Arcanist for example has green thumb up for int and cha, which one is more important? And what is this class even about? Explain what their abilities actually do in a simpler ways instead of 50% of fluff text. ("you get a pool of wild magik to activate some kewl abilities n shit")

Come on Owlcats do some prep against steam "i dont know how AC stacks" posters more.

Some new stuff is also very meh. For example new Alchemist classes. Monsters in a bottle, sounds cool? Well it's just summon animal whatever. Chimera guy who transforms? Well you just can turn into a wolf. Where is all the Alchemist medieval satan fluff? Creating ugly shits in bottles, or transforming yourself into a 2 headed 6 arms chimera? Such cool concepts, such banal fluff.

I bet Incence alchemist would be the best new kit due to aoe Alchemical bonus for party (even more stackable boni for stackboni psychos).

 

[fantadomat]

Fuck now you got me thinking about it. I could come up with quite a bit of mega epic fights that will make the player feel epic and that he had achieved something fun. Holding up a crypt that has few hundreds of undead and actually killing them all when the main object is to retreat. Or fighting two dozens of mindlflayers,each commanding ten tralls and a brainstealer dragon at the same time. Or storming a castle and having your party split where you have tanks come from the broken wall while your dexterity ones are climbing the wall and fighting the archers. You have like hundred shield and sword militia and hundred pike militia in formation at the crack,while getting peltered by a few dozens archers.

 

[Pink Eye]

Still for complete steam noobs classes don't say what stat u need to cast. There are some plackets ala divine caster but not all classes have them (alchemist doesnt). And on russian it looks even weirder ala сакральный заклинатель.

There is no "recommended" button for a stat spread for total nubs either.

You can dump your casting stats to 7 and still pick spells game won't say anything.

A lot of class descriptions really don't explain anything, it's just some fluff, especially obvious on russian language. I remember even in some nwn1 or some old RPGs they'd write "your casting stat is X". Arcanist for example has green thumb up for int and cha, which one is more important? And what is this class even about? Explain what their abilities actually do in a simpler ways instead of 50% of fluff text. ("you get a pool of wild magik to activate some kewl abilities n shit")

Come on Owlcats do some prep against steam "i dont know how AC stacks" posters more.

Some new stuff is also very meh. For example new Alchemist classes. Monsters in a bottle, sounds cool? Well it's just summon animal whatever. Chimera guy who transforms? Well you just can turn into a wolf. Where is all the Alchemist medieval satan fluff? Creating ugly shits in bottles, or transforming yourself into a 2 headed 6 arms chimera? Such cool concepts, such banal fluff.

I bet Incence alchemist would be the best new kit due to aoe Alchemical bonus for party (even more stackable boni for stackboni psychos).

I know what can fix this issue! Giving everyone who buys Wrath, a free pdf copy of the Pathfinder ruleset! Before you start the game, you need do a pop quiz of the ruleset! It will be like Dark Sun: Shatterd Lands! Where you were periodically approached by a dragon who forced you to read the manual in order to answer his questions!

 

[BING XI LAO]

Fuck now you got me thinking about it. I could come up with quite a bit of mega epic fights that will make the player feel epic and that he had achieved something fun. Holding up a crypt that has few hundreds of undead and actually killing them all when the main object is to retreat. Or fighting two dozens of mindlflayers,each commanding ten tralls and a brainstealer dragon at the same time. Or storming a castle and having your party split where you have tanks come from the broken wall while your dexterity ones are climbing the wall and fighting the archers. You have like hundred shield and sword militia and hundred pike militia in formation at the crack,while getting peltered by a few dozens archers.

Sounds like something halfway between an RPG scale and Dominions5/Wesnoth scale

 

[Pink Eye]

Fuck now you got me thinking about it. I could come up with quite a bit of mega epic fights that will make the player feel epic and that he had achieved something fun. Holding up a crypt that has few hundreds of undead and actually killing them all when the main object is to retreat. Or fighting two dozens of mindlflayers,each commanding ten tralls and a brainstealer dragon at the same time. Or storming a castle and having your party split where you have tanks come from the broken wall while your dexterity ones are climbing the wall and fighting the archers. You have like hundred shield and sword militia and hundred pike militia in formation at the crack,while getting peltered by a few dozens archers.

An RTS DnD game?! Give this man a million dollars. He has an idea worth investing in!

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Pink Eye, have you completed the beta yet?