Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[The_Mask]

 

[The_Mask]

Planking. Pathfinder style, baby.

 

[Desiderius]

But if I'm wrong I'd love to see a video of someone playing at my same level (level 9) and with the same settings (core rules and turn-based) NOT suffering the same problems.

My objection wasn't even about how to min-max or to buff more efficiently. It was about how tiring it is being CONSTANTLY expected to perform at the limit of your capabilities.

I've been doing just that on Owlcat forums for a butthurt PnPer and people are pretty well convinced. Core is just a matter of using your spells and abilities, Hard gets to the limits of your capabilities, then Unfair necessitates certain party configurations and tactics.

Here's some Core RT and TB stuff:



Aru on final Drezen boss. Nothing exceptional here. Let me know if you have questions.



MC Archaeologist lvl 10 using Opportunist Advanced Rogue Ability



Lann on Minagho, lvl 10 ZA

Should get to lvl 10 somewhere in the fortress though I got there at the Vampire this time.



This is lvl 8 TB Core, Seelah lvl 8 Pal



Cam lvl 8 autoleveld Core



Disciple of the Pike MC lvl 8 Core

If there is a particular fight you need help with I'll see if there's a save nearby and can walk you through. I sometimes have min/lvl stuff up but always try to keep the long lasting buffs up then rest before bosses.

 

[Desiderius]

In contrast this is what Hard looks like:







(notice Nenio managing to Stun three of her own allies - people who say I post these to brag aren't paying very close attention. There's a lot of suck in here. Point being you can get away with it if you keep your wits about you and try new things)

 

[Xamenos]

My objection wasn't even about how to min-max or to buff more efficiently. It was about how tiring it is being CONSTANTLY expected to perform at the limit of your capabilities.

If Core is at the limit of capabilities you have two options:
A) Increase your capabilities aka git gud.
B) Lower the difficulty.
So far you have chosen hidden option C) "whine and refuse to change anything". Needless to say, this is not a real solution to your problem.

 

[Saravan]

I have to be honest, i didn't expect a different reply.
I know Owlcat could take a dump on your dinner and you would swear in tears that you never tasted better.

Even assuming my build (which is COMPLETELY FINE, ANYWAY) was anything vaguely sub-optimal, this doesn't this type of constantly unforgiving encounter design any better.

But if I'm wrong I'd love to see a video of someone playing at my same level (level 9) and with the same settings (core rules and turn-based) NOT suffering the same problems.

My objection wasn't even about how to min-max or to buff more efficiently. It was about how tiring it is being CONSTANTLY expected to perform at the limit of your capabilities.

This thread is basically the same 3 posters sucking each others dick constantly with Desiderius being their gay leader.

Turn the difficulty down to normal, accept a little bloat due to RtwP (I understand your complaint) and definitely do not waste your time here.

 

[Sunri]

I hate monk class why this shit is so op fucking nudist fisting 4 meters monsters same shit with cuckmaker

 

[Jaedar]

Hello brave beta testers.

What's the quality of this game? Headed for a super buggy release with daily patches or headed for a working 1.0?

Ie, should I get my hopes up for the release date or just assume that it would be better to wait a month or two?

 

[Sunri]

Hello brave beta testers.

What's the quality of this game? Headed for a super buggy release with daily patches or headed for a working 1.0?

Ie, should I get my hopes up for the release date or just assume that it would be better to wait a month or two?

I only played the last beta and there were some gamebreaking bugs but the game great I would recomend it even with bugs

 

[The_Mask]

Hello brave beta testers.

What's the quality of this game? Headed for a super buggy release with daily patches or headed for a working 1.0?

Ie, should I get my hopes up for the release date or just assume that it would be better to wait a month or two?

Technically what we're playing right now is a, what I imagine to be, very old build. But, to answer your question, it seems satisfyingly janky so far.

 

[Bloodeyes]

I'm playing a Sword Saint DEX 19/INT 17 (base values at character creation, pre-equip and modifications) Level 8 with one level in Vivisectionist, specialized in Dueling Sword, aiming to go into Duelist prestige class later.
I don't think there's anything wrong my class or build, frankly.

How come you took a dip on the saint? I've got a saint going right now (in Kingmaker) and wouldn't dream of dipping him because his spell progression is already not the best. The saint kind of comes pre-dipped (gets an approximation of a monk dip at the cost of one less spell per day). A one level dip would need a huge payoff to justify it because then you're effectively two levels behind the base magus.

 

[Sharpedge]

I'm playing beta 3 and I reached the point where you are freeing Drezen (or whatever the fuck is called, you know the place anyway).

I'm playing with the "core rules" setting (that doesn't feel very core, frankly, more like "bloated") and in turn-based mode and I have to say I'm starting to feel a bit annoyed at how OVERTUNED every single encounter seems to be.
It's almost as if the game HATES the idea of letting you enjoy your own power from time to time.

Every single room, every "trash fights" is filled with fuckers that hit hard (+22 to hit to a fucking random sabertooth?), dodge like champs with AC in the thirties, have Damage reduction to this and that, leave permanent status effects or level drains every time they touch you or look at you or nuke you with AOE from the back lines like if it was confetti at a wedding.

It's almost like the game expects you to be buffed at the fullest extent of your capabilities and ready to fight tooth and nail to stay alive every five goddamn meters, except even knowing exactly what to do can only help you so much, when you start running out of resources after a bunch of rooms. Almost no fight feels winnable in a decent manner without a heavy investment in resources and even the best possible preparation doesn't save you from occasional bad luck with the RNG.

Like, holly shit, I'm starting to wonder if I didn't come here heavily under-leveled, but I clocked level 9 and it doesn't feel like I left much content behind me apart from a couple of bugged quests, frankly.

And then you watch a video of a streamer playing at Normal/real-time and it's almost like the guy is playing a different game entirely: nonchalantly walking forward without a care in the world, clicking lazily on enemies as they appear on the edge of the screen and having them dying without much trouble. Feels bad man.

If you aren't enjoying playing on a particular difficulty, just turn the difficulty down. Do not feel pressured to play on any particular difficulty, especially if its ruining the experience for you. I also would not dip a saint into either Vivi or Monk for that matter, because the level 20 power on Saint is really strong and you don't really have the Wis or Cha required to properly benefit from a monk level. It isn't really the end of the world either way (its only a single level), but its still something I don't really feel fits well with the saint.

On the subject of Drezen itself, in my opinion its 1 of the best designed dungeons in RPGs. There are multiple ways to enter (through the prisons, across the roof, flat out breaking down the front door, through the church and probably some others I missed) and considering you are laying siege to a city it makes sense to have armies of enemies thrown against you. It also has some great optional boss fights and because of the corruption system, while you are within Drezen your resources are put under pressure, although I do think they could put your resources under more pressure. All in all its a really well designed dungeon style encounter. With all of that being said however, the pacing of Drezen feels off. When you arrive at Drezen, it is usually directly after the Gargoyle ambush on your camp followed by the rescuing of companions from the church. This is another long (and also good) dungeon style encounter. In a vacuum, both encounters are great but because you end up doing them back to back with no break between them with the exception of a rest to clear away corruption, it ends up making Drezen feel like a bit of a slog, which is a pity considering how good Drezen actually is. It would be great if they added a bunch of minor stuff you could do between surviving the Gargoyle ambush and laying siege to Drezen, just to break up the pacing of encounters.

 

[Mortmal]

I have to be honest, i didn't expect a different reply.
I know Owlcat could take a dump on your dinner and you would swear in tears that you never tasted better.

Even assuming my build (which is COMPLETELY FINE, ANYWAY) was anything vaguely sub-optimal, this doesn't this type of constantly unforgiving encounter design any better.

But if I'm wrong I'd love to see a video of someone playing at my same level (level 9) and with the same settings (core rules and turn-based) NOT suffering the same problems.

My objection wasn't even about how to min-max or to buff more efficiently. It was about how tiring it is being CONSTANTLY expected to perform at the limit of your capabilities.

Build is probably fine on tabletop , but its not the case here. First its rtwp , while it was acceptable in infinity games engine, it makes even less sense here you were not doing 1/10 of what you are doing in pathfinder. Plenty of things you need to adapt for rtwp, going melee heavy and buffed is easier with less micro . There's also stuff working ton better in turn based mode like vital strike and of course aoe spells, in rtwp its too much a pain to place banshee wail without shooting your own party members while the melee heavy group will just tear it all .
Owlcat encounter design bother very little with cr guidelines, but is extremely generous with gear , so in a world where you can find +5 belts to every physical stats,keen flaming weapons and so on in barells , your build focusing on int and dex only is already subpar by default, everything is tuned with all those items and rtwp in mind.
Use turn based mode check the stats block in the game then check the books even basic enemies have more AC. Many are vastly enhanced.

 

[Humbaba]

"Multiclassing? Dual-Classing? Straight forward mono-classed Spellcaster please."

 

[Desiderius]

I have to be honest, i didn't expect a different reply.
I know Owlcat could take a dump on your dinner and you would swear in tears that you never tasted better.

Even assuming my build (which is COMPLETELY FINE, ANYWAY) was anything vaguely sub-optimal, this doesn't this type of constantly unforgiving encounter design any better.

But if I'm wrong I'd love to see a video of someone playing at my same level (level 9) and with the same settings (core rules and turn-based) NOT suffering the same problems.

My objection wasn't even about how to min-max or to buff more efficiently. It was about how tiring it is being CONSTANTLY expected to perform at the limit of your capabilities.

Build is probably fine on tabletop , but its not the case here. First its rtwp , while it was acceptable in infinity games engine, it makes even less sense here you were not doing 1/10 of what you are doing in pathfinder. Plenty of things you need to adapt for rtwp, going melee heavy and buffed is easier with less micro . There's also stuff working ton better in turn based mode like vital strike and of course aoe spells, in rtwp its too much a pain to place banshee wail without shooting your own party members while the melee heavy group will just tear it all .
Owlcat encounter design bother very little with cr guidelines, but is extremely generous with gear , so in a world where you can find +5 belts to every physical stats,keen flaming weapons and so on in barells , your build focusing on int and dex only is already subpar by default, everything is tuned with all those items and rtwp in mind.
Use turn based mode check the stats block in the game then check the books even basic enemies have more AC. Many are vastly enhanced.

He’s playing TB so all that other stuff is easier (though TB misses out on the ability to interrupt casters and combos like Zerg Charges and Leading Strike). The Belts are more scarce in Wrath although by Drezen you’ll mostly have the +2 stuff and can supplement with buffs here and there.

Offensive casting, ranged, and melee are all viable things you can do. What you can’t do are healbots, buffbots, or tanks. Everyone needs to get in on the action. People who complain about slog tend to be tank, spank, and heal types who are used to dumbed down MMOs.

 

[Desiderius]

"Multiclassing? Dual-Classing? Straight forward mono-classed Spellcaster please."

You can do some mix and match here and there but yeah they mostly baked all that into the classes themselves. The class in question is not exactly just a “Spellcaster.”

 

[Humbaba]

I have to be honest, i didn't expect a different reply.
I know Owlcat could take a dump on your dinner and you would swear in tears that you never tasted better.

Even assuming my build (which is COMPLETELY FINE, ANYWAY) was anything vaguely sub-optimal, this doesn't this type of constantly unforgiving encounter design any better.

But if I'm wrong I'd love to see a video of someone playing at my same level (level 9) and with the same settings (core rules and turn-based) NOT suffering the same problems.

My objection wasn't even about how to min-max or to buff more efficiently. It was about how tiring it is being CONSTANTLY expected to perform at the limit of your capabilities.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm playing a Sword Saint DEX 19/INT 17 (base values at character creation, pre-equip and modifications) Level 8 with one level in Vivisectionist, specialized in Dueling Sword, aiming to go into Duelist prestige class later.
I don't think there's anything wrong my class or build, frankly.

How come you took a dip on the saint? I've got a saint going right now (in Kingmaker) and wouldn't dream of dipping him because his spell progression is already not the best. The saint kind of comes pre-dipped (gets an approximation of a monk dip at the cost of one less spell per day). A one level dip would need a huge payoff to justify it because then you're effectively two levels behind the base magus.

That dip isn’t the end of the world, it just shouldn’t be thought of as mandatory and it helps to think about what you’re giving up not just at the level where you took the dip but every level of the game. People understand the concept of being underleveled so that helps get a feel for the cost.

Biggest problem of Vivi dip specifically is that you’re kind of running in circles since it’s zero BAB and the Mutagen hurts your WIS and ends up not quite being long enough in the cases where you want it up. Monk dip has less direct downsides but the upside is one dimensional and less substantive than it looks.

The kind of person who thinks of it as a no-brainer is designing for solo play instead of thinking of characters in terms of the group, obviously in terms of buffs and AoE abilities but also tactics and division of labor.

 

[Desiderius]

My objection wasn't even about how to min-max or to buff more efficiently. It was about how tiring it is being CONSTANTLY expected to perform at the limit of your capabilities.

If Core is at the limit of capabilities you have two options:
A) Increase your capabilities aka git gud.
B) Lower the difficulty.
So far you have chosen hidden option C) "whine and refuse to change anything". Needless to say, this is not a real solution to your problem.

I don’t think he’s refusing to change anything. In fact he’s sort of asking for help while also complaining about the game for making him need to. I could see being a veteran player getting frustrated feeling like I wasn’t given the tools necessary to figure the game out on my own.

Maybe part of that is just that we’re all older and don’t have the time and energy we did when we were kids puzzling out the intricacies of Wiz7 or Diablo2 or whatever? I guess if you’re used to PnP you’ve also got the DM there and depending how much you’re used the DM helping you out the loneliness of the cRPG can be a thing.

My DM growing up was a machine that killed me for my quarters so my mileage may vary.

 

[Reinhardt]

"Multiclassing? Dual-Classing? Straight forward mono-classed Spellcaster please."

Where is your dress, "spellcaster"?

 

[Cryomancer]

dress

Some people can't differentiate

This

Magic user

From This

Dress

The reason which most casters don't use armor is simple. WE DON"T need it.

 

[Reinhardt]

The reason which most casters don't use armor is simple. WE DON"T need it.

Yes, because it will hide your dress.

 

[Delterius]

gotta say my dress is pretty great and comfy

 

[Delterius]

Magic user

bad fashion, snakes are passé

 

[Stoned Ape]

dress

Some people can't differentiate

I think you must be right! Are you sure you didn't make a mistake with your image upload because it looks like you just posted a duplicate image.

Edit:

This is what a proper full caster should wear:

Spoiler