Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC

[Yosharian]

Ok no they were not, on a hunch I figured it might be an order issue because the way I constructed my party is for Inspire Rage to always be the first thing that is cast (my Bard has +41 Initiative)

Sure enough everything works fine when Demonic Rage is the first thing to be cast, but if Inspired Rage is cast first, it's a no-go. And this is super bad because usually you either want IR to be the first thing cast, or you pre-cast it when able. So having to put DR first (which is a combat-only ability) requires some planning, or loss of efficiency. Actually it's always a loss of efficiency, because you never want to take your turn while not having IR up.

Proof:

Spoiler

What if you don't have Demonic Rage / don't want to use it?

If you don't have Demonic Rage then you never have a reason to activate your rage simultaneously with Inspired Rage so the question is moot.

I mean, unless you somehow have more Barb/BR class levels than your Skald, which.. I dunno why taht would be the case

The optimal scenario for a non-Demon is you take a couple of levels to pick up a rage power such as an additional stance then your Skald will activate it along with his own

This doesn't work for totems though, only the Skald's totem will take effect

 

[Haplo]

Ok no they were not, on a hunch I figured it might be an order issue because the way I constructed my party is for Inspire Rage to always be the first thing that is cast (my Bard has +41 Initiative)

Sure enough everything works fine when Demonic Rage is the first thing to be cast, but if Inspired Rage is cast first, it's a no-go. And this is super bad because usually you either want IR to be the first thing cast, or you pre-cast it when able. So having to put DR first (which is a combat-only ability) requires some planning, or loss of efficiency. Actually it's always a loss of efficiency, because you never want to take your turn while not having IR up.

Proof:

Spoiler

What if you don't have Demonic Rage / don't want to use it?

If you don't have Demonic Rage then you never have a reason to activate your rage simultaneously with Inspired Rage so the question is moot.

I mean, unless you somehow have more Barb/BR class levels than your Skald, which.. I dunno why taht would be the case

The optimal scenario for a non-Demon is you take a couple of levels to pick up a rage power such as an additional stance then your Skald will activate it along with his own

This doesn't work for totems though, only the Skald's totem will take effect

What do you mean? A Bloodrager activates his Bloodline Powers in Bloodrage. So why wouldn't you want them active, regardless if you have a Skald or not?

 

[Desiderius]

what's the deal with Vital Strike builds?

VS is a Standard Action.

Dipping is bad because it costs you Mutagen progression and Advanced Rogue Talents which you just spent 10 levels to unlock. You've also got Enhance Potion which lets you use Potions you find as spells on anyone with Infusion and using your own Caster lvl like Nenio does with scrolls.

 

[Yosharian]

Ok no they were not, on a hunch I figured it might be an order issue because the way I constructed my party is for Inspire Rage to always be the first thing that is cast (my Bard has +41 Initiative)

Sure enough everything works fine when Demonic Rage is the first thing to be cast, but if Inspired Rage is cast first, it's a no-go. And this is super bad because usually you either want IR to be the first thing cast, or you pre-cast it when able. So having to put DR first (which is a combat-only ability) requires some planning, or loss of efficiency. Actually it's always a loss of efficiency, because you never want to take your turn while not having IR up.

Proof:

Spoiler

What if you don't have Demonic Rage / don't want to use it?

If you don't have Demonic Rage then you never have a reason to activate your rage simultaneously with Inspired Rage so the question is moot.

I mean, unless you somehow have more Barb/BR class levels than your Skald, which.. I dunno why taht would be the case

The optimal scenario for a non-Demon is you take a couple of levels to pick up a rage power such as an additional stance then your Skald will activate it along with his own

This doesn't work for totems though, only the Skald's totem will take effect

What do you mean? A Bloodrager activates his Bloodline Powers in Bloodrage. So why wouldn't you want them active, regardless if you have a Skald or not?

Hmm I'm not sure if they activate under Inspire Rage, I think they should. But if they don't, then it's bad, because you either get your Bloodrager bonuses/powers or you inherit the Skald's powers/bonuses - not both.

But I haven't tested for BR bloodline powers specifically (or if I did then I can't remember) so I'm not sure about that

 

[Desiderius]

Lol, this is what I get for not bringing Reg*. There is a Mythic for this (Always a Chance). Might be worth another look. Essentially +1 AB with benefits. There's always a way to eliminate RNG.

* - this is one of those fights that's a lot easier in RTwP where you can usually just zerg Charge before he ever gets the spell off (or interrupt his casting from range). In TB just bring your Evil companions (game is designed to bring different companions to different fights instead of a fixed 6 - that's why unlike BG inactive companions still get EXP) or I guess can also use Freedom of Movement but 4th lvl slots are wanting Death Ward and Crusader's Edge pretty bad on this map and I'm too cheap to buy scrolls for optional fights.

Zach fight

Not sure what happened to the Faerie Fire scroll from Kenabres (Faerie Fire cancels Zach's Displacement, Glitterdust doesn't) but RNG was not friendly here either.



Luckily he just kept trying to suck HP from badass Seelah (she could have used a Displacement of her own) instead of casting his nasty AoEs. Maybe because I Doored in the team to melee range? If you don't he has a spell which will hold everybody outside usually if you let him cast it.

Zach doesn't have SR so lots of ways to to attack him with spells (Searing Touch with the Maximize Rod in the other room is a good one) but didn't have many up so just had to whittle through his Displacement and eventually the Trip landed. He made about six Reflex saves in a row on Grease and Pit which aren't the best way to take advantage of zero SR.

 

[Delterius]

Where is the "Fixed our game" DLC?

thursday

improved

 

[Lambach]

View attachment 29862

Lol, this is what I get for not bringing Reg*. There is a Mythic for this (Always a Chance). Might be worth another look. Essentially +1 AB with benefits. There's always a way to eliminate RNG.

Personally, I wouldn't say getting rid of that measly 5% chance to miss is worth a Mythic Ability. Specially not on a ranged character that wants Cleaving Shots, The Bigger They Are, Distracting Shots etc. ASAP.

 

[Desiderius]

Bigger was disappointing when I tried it on Lann. Ranging, Cleaving, and Distracting are all great of course. Might be worth picking up Always a Chance after that.

 

[Yosharian]

The issue with Always A Chance is that in situations where you are just tired of those Nat 1s, you're probably also tired of Nat 1 saves, and you're likely to want to cast the luck hex as a result, which means that AAC is pointless.

The only time I'd see this being worth it is if I had Mythic Iron Will or something, then AAC would round that out nicely to just say 'NOPE' to Nat 1s. But really it's a very small boost to damage and it's mostly just a fun mythic to take rather than actually being useful. Not to mention you better be bringing at least +90 AB to make it worthwhile

If there was a mythic to never roll Nat 1s on all saves I would take that shit in a fucking heartbeat

 

[Desiderius]

The issue with Always A Chance is that in situations where you are just tired of those Nat 1s, you're probably also tired of Nat 1 saves, and you're likely to want to cast the luck hex as a result, which means that AAC is pointless.

The only time I'd see this being worth it is if I had Mythic Iron Will or something, then AAC would round that out nicely to just say 'NOPE' to Nat 1s. But really it's a very small boost to damage and it's mostly just a fun mythic to take rather than actually being useful. Not to mention you better be bringing at least +90 AB to make it worthwhile

If there was a mythic to never roll Nat 1s on all saves I would take that shit in a fucking heartbeat

Wend is usually out of range of saves, so if I wanted that it would be on a different character. I am planning to mount her so I guess she’ll be in melee more once Bismuth shows up.

 

[Lambach]

Might be worth picking up Always a Chance after that.

I rolled 3 (yes, three) 1's in a row with my current MC recently. Still didn't feel the need for Always a Chance, though, because I had 3 more attacks that successfully finished the target off.

 

[Desiderius]

Might be worth picking up Always a Chance after that.

I rolled 3 (yes, three) 1's in a row with my current MC recently. Still didn't feel the need for Always a Chance, though, because I had 3 more attacks that successfully finished the target off.

Infinite attacks cost more than a Mythic.

 

[Haplo]

Might be worth picking up Always a Chance after that.

I rolled 3 (yes, three) 1's in a row with my current MC recently. Still didn't feel the need for Always a Chance, though, because I had 3 more attacks that successfully finished the target off.

Well, that's Owlcat randomness for you. Recently I've had like 4 enemies roll a ~50% chance to avoid CC (Slow I think) - with Persistant, so 8 rolls total - and none failed...

 

[Lambach]

If there was a mythic to never roll Nat 1s on all saves I would take that shit in a fucking heartbeat

There's an Aeon Gaze that bumps all rolls to MR/2 + 2 if you roll MR/2 + 1 or below. At MR 9, it makes sure you never roll below 6 basically.

 

[Yosharian]

That would be amazing if I had any interest at all in Aeon =)

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Might be worth picking up Always a Chance after that.

I rolled 3 (yes, three) 1's in a row with my current MC recently. Still didn't feel the need for Always a Chance, though, because I had 3 more attacks that successfully finished the target off.

Well, that's Owlcat randomness for you. Recently I've had like 4 enemies roll a ~50% chance to avoid CC (Slow I think) - with Persistant, so 8 rolls total - and none failed...

My most memorable ragequit (that was in PKM, though) was trying to combat the sycamore wisp early on and rolling 1 three times in a row after using true strike three times in a row.

 

[ArchAngel]

The issue with Always A Chance is that in situations where you are just tired of those Nat 1s, you're probably also tired of Nat 1 saves, and you're likely to want to cast the luck hex as a result, which means that AAC is pointless.

The only time I'd see this being worth it is if I had Mythic Iron Will or something, then AAC would round that out nicely to just say 'NOPE' to Nat 1s. But really it's a very small boost to damage and it's mostly just a fun mythic to take rather than actually being useful. Not to mention you better be bringing at least +90 AB to make it worthwhile

If there was a mythic to never roll Nat 1s on all saves I would take that shit in a fucking heartbeat

I took that Mythic with all my ranged touch attack characters in my DLC3 run with Touch attack tailwind. 3 characters could hit on 1 if it wasn't automatic miss and when you got 1 to 2 attacks per turn you never want to miss.

 

[Yosharian]

Fair enough but that is a niche case

 

[Longes]

Finished my Lich playthrough. Tempted to go straight into Angel, but I think I'll wait until next DLC. Azata I'm never going to play, and Trickster is a maybe.

Out of the paths I've played, Lich is my third most favorite I guess. Demon is still by far the most interesting path. Aeon's pretty good, and has more cool moments than Lich does. But in terms of power, good lord Lich is busted. The powers are immensely strong, the spells are insane (bosses would regularly have negative saves and touch AC courtesy of Corrupt Magic), and becoming undead is like having all of Aeon's immunities but still having features on top of that. Lich is also the prime candidate for taking Destructive Dispell, because the synergy with Corrupt Magic is immense. And if you don't want to cast, trip monk can do horrid things with Death Rush (Rd6 damage on every combat maneuver) and Decaying Touch (+1d6R damage on every unarmed or natural attack). Do a flurry of blows, every blow is also a trip with pumeling style.

Among the late game paths, Devil has a few very cool moments but is otherwise boring as shit and should have been a full path. Swarm was borderline unplayable due to bugs when I last played it (on release). And Gold Dragon sucks ass.

 

[Lambach]

Among the late game paths, Devil has a few very cool moments but is otherwise boring as shit and should have been a full path.

How hard does Regill fangirl over you when you turn into a Devil?

 

[Longes]

Among the late game paths, Devil has a few very cool moments but is otherwise boring as shit and should have been a full path.

How hard does Regill fangirl over you when you turn into a Devil?

Disappointingly mildly. But being a Devil factors into the Hellknight trial.

Infuriatingly, Asmodeus has nothing to say about you becoming a Devil even if you worship him.

 

[Lambach]

Disappointingly mildly. But being a Devil factors into the Hellknight trial.

Infuriatingly, Asmodeus has nothing to say about you becoming a Devil even if you worship him.

Act 5 in general lacks a lot of those unique interactions, Companion quips and other similar flavor content compared to the previous ones. Clearly rushed.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Where is the "Fixed our game" DLC?

next thursday

You're actually correct, for a change. There seem to be no patches this week; so maybe Owlcat considers Enhanced Edition fixed? Or, at least, stable?

I wonder if it's time for me to switch. I "broke" 3 companions by giving them pets, so the improved GUI for animals would be welcome.

 

[Yosharian]

Haplo Tested Bloodrager + SKald interactions:

If you bring a Skald to accompany your Bloodrager then you can do some neat things:

1. You can benefit from two stances at once. So you can take Guarded Stance on your Bloodrager and Lethal Stance on your Skald, and when your Skald activates Inspired Rage, you will receive the benefit of both stances. Not only this, but the stance power taken on your Bloodrager will activate at the Skald's class level, rather than your Bloodrager's. (This means for example you could be a level 4 Bloodrager but benefit from your chosen stance power functioning at class level 20 if your Skald is 20)
2. Inspired Rage will activate your Bloodrage abilities such as Serpentine Elasticity.
3. You cannot benefit from multiple totems however as far as I can tell - tested with Lesser Fiend Totem. Only the Totem granted by your Skald will take effect.
4. You cannot benefit from the Bloodrage AB/DMG bonus and the Inspired Rage AB/DMG bonus - only the highest bonus takes effect, since they are both typed as Rage bonuses.

In order to benefit from this interaction you must not activate your Bloodrage in battle, but instead rely on your Skald to activate Inspired Rage. This also means you don't need to take the Limitless Rage mythic power. However it does mean that you are effectively not gaining any AB/DMG from your Rage.

The optimal way to abuse this is to take only enough levels in Barbarian/Bloodrager to get access to the Rage powers you want, either naturally or by using the Extra Rage Power feat, then continuing in other classes. It becomes troublesome if you want things like Serpentine Elasticity, as I allude to above, because then you're spending a whole bunch of levels but not really getting much out of the class' inherent Rage ability (insofar as AB/DMG is concerned, that is).

 

[Yosharian]

Ember can get this spell at-will if you do the right thing with regards to her personal quest

Spoiler

Isn't quite as potent as an equivalent level 9 spell as illustrated in the pic, but still.