Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC

[Lambach]

And yeah in subsequent playthroughs they get easier to deal with. Exactly like in IE games encounters.

Well yeah, in subsequent playthroughs, you remember where they are, so you can entirely avoid them easier.

 

[Desiderius]

The Shadows aren’t on the middle of the map.

They’re in the top right corner, no quest sends you there, and you need to pass a relatively high Athletics check to get there directly. Kind of like some Owlbears that people also like to whine about.

If you’re doing a full clear (don’t) you can get there around top after you’ve already passed the quests that shld get you near lvl 4 if not to it.

Undead areas shld be dangerous. There’s a fight with a Minor Shadow (maybe that’s the one that drains STR) that gives you a preview of what follows. If you’re not up for that that’s where you decide to turn back playing blind at lvl 3.

At lvl 3 even Ghoul Paralysis can be an issue.

 

[santino27]

Maybe their drain changes on difficulty? It was definitely strength drain every time I played it (only difference between the lesser shadow and other shadows was the size of dice rolled for the drain), but I was not playing on unfair. Assuming that we're talking about the shadows on the way to the necromancer, of course.

 

[Desiderius]

Casters should have tools vs the major types of foes you’re going to encounter, to attack each save, and to bypass SR as needed.

Obviously undead will always be a big concern so that’s something to be aware of when selecting spells. That and finding the Divine caster before undead finds you. You ARE given that quest on the Market map.

 

[ga♥]

The Shadows aren’t on the middle of the map.
They’re in the top right corner, no quest sends you there, and you need to pass a relatively high Athletics check to get there directly. Kind of like some Owlbears that people also like to whine about.

Well top right quadrant, very easy to stumble in them since they are in the graveyard immediately at the start, so near the middle.
Don't you have to pass those athletic checks anyway to do Anevia mandatory quest? Maybe I don't remember. Also can't you reach the area from Desna church without checks?

 

[Lambach]

The Shadows aren’t on the middle of the map.

They’re in the top right corner, no quest sends you there, and you need to pass a relatively high Athletics check to get there directly. Kind of like some Owlbears that people also like to whine about.

If you’re doing a full clear (don’t) you can get there around top after you’ve already passed the quests that shld get you near lvl 4 if not to it.

Undead areas shld be dangerous. There’s a fight with a Minor Shadow (maybe that’s the one that drains STR) that gives you a preview of what follows. If you’re not up for that that’s where you decide to turn back playing blind at lvl 3.

When was the last time you went through the Kenabres Marketplace? Honest question. You're describing a completely different location compared to the one I went through about 2 weeks ago. I did not have to beat any Checks, I did not have to crawl up someone's asshole to get there, I was literally just exploring the Marketplace and somehere on the northern side of it, I stepped into a horde of Zombies and their 3 ghost "leaders" that gang-raped Level drained 2 of my Party members to death. Many reloads later, I figured it's just not worth it and avoided them instead.

 

[ga♥]

Maybe their drain changes on difficulty? It was definitely strength drain every time I played it (only difference between the lesser shadow and other shadows was the size of dice rolled for the drain), but I was not playing on unfair. Assuming that we're talking about the shadows on the way to the necromancer, of course.

Last time I played was when inevitable excess came out, and on hard no level drain.
You still need the scroll for the Nabassu though.

You can RNG the Wights in the cellar and IIRC they are temporary level drain, also the succubus in Tirabade estate (still optional).

 

[Desiderius]

The Shadows aren’t on the middle of the map.
They’re in the top right corner, no quest sends you there, and you need to pass a relatively high Athletics check to get there directly. Kind of like some Owlbears that people also like to whine about.

Well top right quadrant, very easy to stumble in them since they are in the graveyard immediately at the start, so near the middle.
Don't you have to pass those athletic checks anyway to do Anevia mandatory quest? Maybe I don't remember. Also can't you reach the area from Desna church without checks?

No, you cannot stumble into the graveyard at the start. You have to go around. After you fix the bridge (main quest of the level) with a manageable Athletics check there’s a higher Athletics check (with big damage for fail) if you want to keep going north. West is open and sends you to main quest giver who gives talk quest with big EXP that can be completed due north.

You can also recruit him, but then you won’t get Shield from releasing Vrock. God help us if Lambach discovers how to do *that* at lvl 3. It is gated behind high Knowlege check at least.

After finishing Ramien quest you’d have to head SE (with no quest sending you there, Daeran quest giver intercepts you on way to Ramien) into reasonably big fight with two casters then continue that way to get to Graveyard if you didn’t go for original Athletics.

Graveyard fight has one Minor Shadow to warn you what’s coming if you continue that direction. If you choose to when unequipped to deal with them then that’s on you.

 

[Desiderius]

You also already have Cam Quest on map so have incentive to exit to west. If you go NW from Hulduur you get big Thiefling EXP and easy Abrikandu fight. If you go south at start of area you have easy fights and can pick up Ember.

 

[ga♥]

Well yeah, in subsequent playthroughs, you remember where they are, so you can entirely avoid them easier.

Nope, can just manage to kill them immediately at level 3 with Camelia (ghost touch weapon ability), Finnean and 1 non-shitty mercenary, and potions of lesser restorations. But this is on hard, not unfair.

 

[Desiderius]

Cam doesn’t do much damage even with Ghost Touch until she gets DEX to damage. You’re really better off waiting for Daeran if your MC isn’t Divine. Much easier at lvl 4/5 for all of your characters.

 

[santino27]

Lann with Finnean takes out the shadows very easily, and you can scrape together enough magic items (or spells) to generally take out at least one other between all your party in that same round. I always head that way first in the market square so I can pick up the necromancer's glaive. Obviously, potions of lesser restoration and maybe a scroll of remove blindness (for said necro) are helpful.

Again though, this is not on unfair. On unfair difficulty, even if they still just drained str damage, I would leave that area alone until I was prepped. That's kind of what unfair means and requires.

 

[Desiderius]

If you suck at a game AND are playing blind why in the world would you play Unfair? I don’t even like early Unfair and I know the game way better than I should.

I did it with my Skald MC (Guarded Stance + Animal Totem) and a Leopard pet on Lann with infinite AC but it was still a pain.

 

[Haplo]

I also don't remember any level drain from the shadows. Annoying stat damage? Sure. But level drain? Nope.
They never gave me too much trouble.
I mean, they are a pain without Ghost Touch... but you should have at least 2 sources of that.

Maybe they only level drain caster MCs?
Or there is a saving throw with a shitty DC to defend against it.

Anyway why are you level 3 when fighting them? You'd have much less problems if you weren't constantly underleveled.

 

[Shadenuat]

I also don't remember any level drain from the shadows. Annoying stat damage? Sure. But level drain? Nope.
Maybe they only level drain caster MCs?
Or there is a saving throw with a shitty DC to defend against it.

so far judging by replies, they exclusively feed on Sorcerers.
maybe if you also dipped a Sorcerer they reanimate too with higher stats.
fitting for monster with Shade in the name.

 

[Desiderius]

is a saving throw with a shitty DC to defend against it.

Letting Cam spam Prot Evils and Barkskins early can help on several of the tougher encounters.

 

[Desiderius]

I also don't remember any level drain from the shadows. Annoying stat damage? Sure. But level drain? Nope.
Maybe they only level drain caster MCs?
Or there is a saving throw with a shitty DC to defend against it.

so far judging by replies, they exclusively feed on Sorcerers.
maybe if you also dipped a Sorcerer they reanimate too with higher stats.
fitting for monster with Shade in the name.

Or on Pals with negative Touch AC.

 

[RunningWolf]

On an annoyance scale they're way way behind the Vescavor swarms for me. At least on Hard/Unfair.

Another reason why SKALD is the best class in the game. It has +7(!) to saves against that shit.

gibber

 

[Humbaba]

Almost all of these "tough" encounters can be rendered a lot easier simply by using the right spells/scrolls, like death ward with the shadows, or the Nabassu for whom you'll also need scrolls of free action. Against vescavors you should definitely bring scrolls of mind blank, though they won't render you immune. Thankfully gibber doesn't last that long.

Lambach, money for those scrolls really should not be an issue, unless you haven't been pawning off loot for some reason. Against the shadows specifically you don't even need one scroll for every party member, just for your melee fighters. Theoretically, you'd only need a single one, provided your tank manages to draw everyone's aggro.

 

[Sharpedge]

I don't recall the shadows ever being an annoyance for me and 1 of my playthroughs was in fact a sorcerer on unfair. I am pretty sure the drain was only for 24h as well and not permanent. But hey, my first playthrough was on hard, not on unfair, I don't do blind unfair because it seems like an exercise in self punishment and on subsequent playthroughs I already knew they were there and I would have to deal with them. In terms of enemies being an annoyance I would say the only things that really caught me off guard were the crystals that stun you (forgot the name) and Deathsnatchers. Once you figured out the gimmick for either of those enemies, they were no longer really an issue.

 

[Daidre]

maybe to not allow daidre to buff her dog army?

That's a slander. I started using Tabletop Tweaks mod for Wrath that removes most glaring abuses months ago and was absolutely legally Vestment-izing not my dog's shaggy asses but their barding instead.
Tbh, I do not use ALL components from the mod, for example I hate one that removes Fire tag from the Hellfire Ray, but I have most mechanical fixes active, like fixes for Charge (Spirited, Mythic) calculations or for the "fake" attacks that are causing extra procs of on-hit effects (this shit plagued bugfinder since kingmaker).

 

[Stoned Ape]

Decided to start a Lich-->Legend run (I read that if you take 8 Prestige Class caster levels before 20th, you can reach CL 28 as a Legend) and I also thought I'd try out Lann as a crusader to see how effective it is.

He just tanked the Water Elemental without taking a hit (with shield of faith + barkskin his AC gets to 31 which seems very decent for this point in the game).

Just about to finish up the remaining part of the Shield Maze. I'm going to try to clear as much of the city as possible before picking up any more companions to see how much extra XP you get for using a 4 character party.

Unbuffed Crusader Lann:

 

[Desiderius]

I mean, they give you a Resist Cold and Prot Cold Pot now. Why nerf him the whole game for one optional fight that Cam or a pet can already tank? Truly don’t get this.

Lann is the one companion that can be profitably multi-classed (Wend probably can but straight Fighter is REALLY good) and there are a lot of directions he can go but… you gotta use the Bow. He’s priced into that.

Not like you’re flooded with archers.

 

[Stoned Ape]

I mean, they give you a Resist Cold and Prot Cold Pot now. Why nerf him the whole game for one optional fight that Cam or a pet can already tank? Truly don’t get this.

Lann is the one companion that can be profitably multi-classed (Wend probably can but straight Fighter is REALLY good) and there are a lot of directions he can go but… you gotta use the Bow. He’s priced into that.

Not like you’re flooded with archers.

I've used Lann pure zen archer on my first playthrough, then divine hunter (16)/zen archer (4), empyreal sorcerer(19)/zen archer (1), druid (19)/zen archer (1)

This time I want to try playing Lann as a crusader and Arue as a Ranger (8)/Eldritch Archer (12) just because I've not tried them like that yet, and it's more fun to try different things with the companions instead of just repeating the same stuff.

I'm also probably going to do something different with Regil and Greybor this time, too (not made my mind up yet as to what though).

EDIT: I'm also going for no pets this time, so no horse for Seelah, even though the steed is far, far better than divine weapon bond.

 

[Desiderius]

I mean, they give you a Resist Cold and Prot Cold Pot now. Why nerf him the whole game for one optional fight that Cam or a pet can already tank? Truly don’t get this.

Lann is the one companion that can be profitably multi-classed (Wend probably can but straight Fighter is REALLY good) and there are a lot of directions he can go but… you gotta use the Bow. He’s priced into that.

Not like you’re flooded with archers.

I've used Lann pure zen archer on my first playthrough, then divine hunter (16)/zen archer (4), empyreal sorcerer(19)/zen archer (1), druid (19)/zen archer (1)

This time I want to try playing Lann as a crusader and Arue as a Ranger (8)/Eldritch Archer (12) just because I've not tried them like that yet, and it's more fun to try different things with the companions instead of just repeating the same stuff.

I'm also probably going to do something different with Regil and Greybor this time, too (not made my mind up yet as to what though).

EDIT: I'm also going for no pets this time, so no horse for Seelah, even though the steed is far, far better than divine weapon bond.

Yeah I get that but I try to do those things without nerfing myself. It just gives him a dead feat/level. Seelah makes a better Crusader than Lann. You can always try to get there with the Snap Shot on him even if you do multi.

And with Aru already having 8 lvls in Ranger going a different direction is superbad. She has enough CHR try to make her a Ranger caster if you want to switch things up there.