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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC

Haplo

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Which actually gets me thinking. Slow works against Undead too, right?

:philosoraptor:
Indeed.
Trouble is its difficult to get Transmutation DCs high.

As an alternative for Druids/Shamans there's also Conjuration Slowing Mud - Fortitude based.
Not that Conjuration DCs are that much better.
In act1/2 there isn't a really big difference in DC. Only DC items you get is a +1 will DC staff which works on slow, a +1 evocation DC dagger and a +2 illusion ring. The illusion ring is pretty whatever for most of act 2 (rainbow pattern is pretty good on gargoyles though). Undead is mostly an act 2 problem so transmutation or conjuration should pretty much be at full power there regardless of how they are itemized later. The difference becomes big when you open the drezen vendors and then Mind affecting spells skyrocket ahead of the rest (although I do not know what IE and Treasure DLC bring item wise since I do not own them)
And at worse there is expanded arsenal, even without the bug, this feat is massive - you can tech for the early game and transition in midgame to a better school. I find slow/conjurations the be the best options for most of act1/2, even though they are the least supported schools item wise later. In vanilla selective grease is a no brainer, and in TTT I find slow to be the most reliable. So I like taking focuses in conjuration or transmutation early game and going for expanded arsenal at M2 delaying Spell focus mythic for M4 which I rush in act3. Its not like those feats are wasted either because in a pinch you might want to target a weak reflex save or something, and with debuffs even weaker DCs can go through saves. And what I have noticed is that baleful polymorph isn't immuned by many things which makes it a good fall back when Mind affecting spells won't do the trick. It is also better supported than the rest of transmutation because it targets fortitude and there is at least one item that boost fort save dc.
Sure. With Conjuration it helps that Glitterdust is one of my favourite spells.
 

Haplo

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Meh I found that fight pretty easy, he does hit hard though

Well, he's relatively easy to burst down. But if you don't or make the mistake of focusing on Minagho... he can end you fast.
Minagho's spells, particularly Putrefaction, don't help.
Even then, you need a bit of luck. If either of them get a turn you might as well reload. The cutscene reset really doesn't help.

Well, 1 turn you should survive. More might be risky.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
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So what would you use to make the most out of Demonic Charge?
Seems like the most fun ability they have.
Yeah, I guess still Cleaving Finish Vital Strikes. Not really a meta build after the nerfs, though.
What did they nerf about them?
Vital Strike damage is no longer multiplied on crits.
Saving people from themselves again. Full attacks cost no Feats. Sux if you’ve got a good Move Action (like Freebooter’s Bane or Demon teleport) you want to pair with a single-target Standard Action, but that’s a pretty narrow case.

(Surprise) Charge followed up by Full Attack is still the bread-and-butter of the vast majority of classes (or simply firing Full Attax at range without having to move and hitting multiple targets after the first dies instead of simply overkilling one), and trying jam Vital Strike in everywhere has done people far more harm than good.

Full attacks don't chain with Cleaving Finish, so with Vital Strike you didn't really overkill, since you popped the next mob as well.

Besides, this isn't even about Vital Strike, but about who makes best use of Demonic Charge.
Vital Strike kind of wants parties built for it. Pairs very well with Sensei Mass True Strike advice.

Demonic Charge was more interesting when you could use it to teleport anywhere, as it was a nice mobility tool for casters then
https://github.com/alterasc/DemonicChargePointTarget/blob/main/README.md

Think I'll just go Kineticist, everything else seems to have no synergy.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Dec 26, 2014
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
I like how you don't have to return to the capital to use the campaign map. You can still control your armies while you're out adventuring. You just have to return for rank ups and events.
This again is an improvement over kingmaker.

Aeon path is pretty cool, and going Asmodeus for your god opens up some nice dialogue options with One Eyed Devil and Melies.
In act 2 when you out Nurah out as the traitor you even get a dialogue option saying that her former masters weren't hard enough on her, and you swear on Asmodeus that if you were her master she would have been "disciplined."

I noticed that with the Aeon path you have the choice of banishing Daeran. Do you just lose him, or does something interesting happen?
 
Joined
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The Present
Does Surprise Spells from Arcane Trickster level 10 apply to only direct damage spells or also DoT spells (e.g. Sirocco)? I'm assuming the answer is "no" because that'd be hilariously overpowered and either mentioned constantly or fixed long ago, but just want to check.

EDIT: Also, this is dumb, but I gotta ask: anyone tested surprise spells with a Knife Master holding a dagger?
Surprise Spells does not apply sneak on DOT, only the initial cast. I think I tried the Knife Master in KM. I don't remember it working, otherwise I'd be doing that instead of Thug.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Meh I found that fight pretty easy, he does hit hard though

Well, he's relatively easy to burst down. But if you don't or make the mistake of focusing on Minagho... he can end you fast.
Minagho's spells, particularly Putrefaction, don't help.
Even then, you need a bit of luck. If either of them get a turn you might as well reload. The cutscene reset really doesn't help.
What difficulty are you even playing? Sometimes Minagho will cast Waves of Fatigue instead, and Seelah has an Aura of Fear Immunity. Burst of Glory is a great spell that will prevent getting one-shotted even on a crit.

ald10critbystaunton.jpg

Illusion magic is good to put on main melee for tough fights and any MC can get Mirror Image via Bit of Luck. Seelah can get it via Wand and UMD.

Thought Staunton had way higher AC than that. Something like 40?

But then if you've been able to take the optional demon summoning fight you should still be able to 1-2 turn him.
This was Core since I assumed that's what CthuluIsSpy is playing. Core itself seems to have been nerfed pretty hard.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Does Surprise Spells from Arcane Trickster level 10 apply to only direct damage spells or also DoT spells (e.g. Sirocco)? I'm assuming the answer is "no" because that'd be hilariously overpowered and either mentioned constantly or fixed long ago, but just want to check.

EDIT: Also, this is dumb, but I gotta ask: anyone tested surprise spells with a Knife Master holding a dagger?
Surprise Spells does not apply sneak on DOT, only the initial cast. I think I tried the Knife Master in KM. I don't remember it working, otherwise I'd be doing that instead of Thug.
Makes sense. I now have a new idea though which could be the most hilariously OP combo still in existence. Gonna check in game if it works before spoiling it.

This was Core since I assumed that's what @CthuluIsSpy is playing. Core itself seems to have been nerfed pretty hard.
Yeah that seems to be a consistent thing, the critical path through the game was trimmed down
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
Meh I found that fight pretty easy, he does hit hard though

Well, he's relatively easy to burst down. But if you don't or make the mistake of focusing on Minagho... he can end you fast.
Minagho's spells, particularly Putrefaction, don't help.
Even then, you need a bit of luck. If either of them get a turn you might as well reload. The cutscene reset really doesn't help.
What difficulty are you even playing? Sometimes Minagho will cast Waves of Fatigue instead, and Seelah has an Aura of Fear Immunity. Burst of Glory is a great spell that will prevent getting one-shotted even on a crit.

View attachment 36358

Illusion magic is good to put on main melee for tough fights and any MC can get Mirror Image via Bit of Luck. Seelah can get it via Wand and UMD.

Thought Staunton had way higher AC than that. Something like 40?

But then if you've been able to take the optional demon summoning fight you should still be able to 1-2 turn him.
This was Core since I assumed that's what CthuluIsSpy is playing. Core itself seems to have been nerfed pretty hard.
Yeah, I'm playing core. Maybe the RNG just really hated me for a few attempts. When I finally beat it I did it in like 2 rounds.
 
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Messages
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Holy shit it does work. Do Wizard 3->Rogue 1->Vivi 1->Arcane Trickster 10->Loremaster 1 (secret: Druid spell Cave Fangs). You now can perform infinite AoE sneak attack bludgeoning or piercing damage with your mind as a free action, just win initiative. If you somehow lose initiative or aren't in range to kill everyone just turn on impromptu sneak attack. Take Enduring spells of course, cast sense vitals, take more sneak attack increasing levels.

Obviously it's Cave Fangs that is actually broken but abusing it normally is insanely tedious because its like 10 damage per usage on average and that's before damage reduction. Adding 20d6 to that 3d8 damage makes it actually impressive. Even more damage if you go legend.
 

Haplo

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Holy shit it does work. Do Wizard 3->Rogue 1->Vivi 1->Arcane Trickster 10->Loremaster 1 (secret: Druid spell Cave Fangs). You now can perform infinite AoE sneak attack bludgeoning or piercing damage with your mind as a free action, just win initiative. If you somehow lose initiative or aren't in range to kill everyone just turn on impromptu sneak attack. Take Enduring spells of course, cast sense vitals, take more sneak attack increasing levels.

Obviously it's Cave Fangs that is actually broken but abusing it normally is insanely tedious because its like 10 damage per usage on average and that's before damage reduction. Adding 20d6 to that 3d8 damage makes it actually impressive.
Yeah, Cave Fangs strategies are well known. Typically people boost it with Angel Holy Sword and such. But I thought it was long fixed to not be a free action anymore. Is that still the case in vanilla?
 

LannTheStupid

Товарищ
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Pathfinder: Wrath
I tried to get value out of Demonic Charge in my abortive Demon playthrough but things were too bugged to tell what was good.
Demonic Charge is a teleport. Which means not only does it not trip AoO's, but it can go through physical obstacles like pits or walls. Several times, it helped me on the Midland Isles, where my main teleported over the pit, which separated enemy casters from the party. The party helped when they walked around, but the casters were tripped and lying on the ground for Seelah to cleave them with the Grave Singer.

Also, AoE damage around the final point is unholy, meaning unblockable, and increases with the Mythic rank.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
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Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,501
Mythic Charge + Pounce, do you apply the divine damage on the rest of your iteratives, i.e., you pop your target, do you continue doing mythic charge damage on nearby mooks?

Similar question for all the weapons that add damage on charges too.

Also, mounted charge + Vulpine Pounce, works? Do you even need it, or do you get Full Attacks for free?
 
Last edited:

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Joined
Jul 22, 2019
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14,828
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Meh I found that fight pretty easy, he does hit hard though

Well, he's relatively easy to burst down. But if you don't or make the mistake of focusing on Minagho... he can end you fast.
Minagho's spells, particularly Putrefaction, don't help.
Even then, you need a bit of luck. If either of them get a turn you might as well reload. The cutscene reset really doesn't help.
What difficulty are you even playing? Sometimes Minagho will cast Waves of Fatigue instead, and Seelah has an Aura of Fear Immunity. Burst of Glory is a great spell that will prevent getting one-shotted even on a crit.

View attachment 36358

Illusion magic is good to put on main melee for tough fights and any MC can get Mirror Image via Bit of Luck. Seelah can get it via Wand and UMD.

Thought Staunton had way higher AC than that. Something like 40?

But then if you've been able to take the optional demon summoning fight you should still be able to 1-2 turn him.
This was Core since I assumed that's what CthuluIsSpy is playing. Core itself seems to have been nerfed pretty hard.
Yeah, I'm playing core. Maybe the RNG just really hated me for a few attempts. When I finally beat it I did it in like 2 rounds.
The RNG can be made irrelevant on Unfair. If it’s relevant to you on Core the game offers you many more hours of enjoyment as you discover how to suck less.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Holy shit it does work. Do Wizard 3->Rogue 1->Vivi 1->Arcane Trickster 10->Loremaster 1 (secret: Druid spell Cave Fangs). You now can perform infinite AoE sneak attack bludgeoning or piercing damage with your mind as a free action, just win initiative. If you somehow lose initiative or aren't in range to kill everyone just turn on impromptu sneak attack. Take Enduring spells of course, cast sense vitals, take more sneak attack increasing levels.

Obviously it's Cave Fangs that is actually broken but abusing it normally is insanely tedious because its like 10 damage per usage on average and that's before damage reduction. Adding 20d6 to that 3d8 damage makes it actually impressive.
Yeah, Cave Fangs strategies are well known. Typically people boost it with Angel Holy Sword and such. But I thought it was long fixed to not be a free action anymore. Is that still the case in vanilla?
I think it can only be activated once per round? I’ve always limited my own use to that because other way is obvious bug, though it isn’t infinite since each use costs duration of base spell like Call Lightning.

I used it with Nature Daeran/Drovier Lann as an Entangle source (Stalactites) since the Stalagmite patch is such a pain to avoid. Dismiss spell wasn’t working on it.

It picks up some damage it shouldn’t but it’s not broken unless it’s spammable.
 

LannTheStupid

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I think Desiderius will have something to say to you.
He’s right I think?
I mean, if the Aviaries are not accessible from the region with the current quests, then the expansion of the barony is too slow. I think it is possible to capture the bordering regions of both Pytax and Vordakai Tomb before the baron has to go there.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,213
I think it can only be activated once per round? I’ve always limited my own use to that because other way is obvious bug, though it isn’t infinite since each use costs duration of base spell like Call Lightning.

I used it with Nature Daeran/Drovier Lann as an Entangle source (Stalactites) since the Stalagmite patch is such a pain to avoid. Dismiss spell wasn’t working on it.

It picks up some damage it shouldn’t but it’s not broken unless it’s spammable.
It can be activated as many times as you want in turn based. In real time you have to unpause for a fraction of a second.

Yes its not technically unlimited, but it costs 10 mins of duration each time you use it and you can use enduring spells to make it last all day. So that's 6 x 24 = 144 potential uses each time you cast it. And its a level 6 spell you'll be able to cast like 10 times before resting, so... 28,800d6 worth of potential sneak damage. And you're still a respectable wizard in all other respects, just 2 CL down from the rogue/vivi
 

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