Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC

[Desiderius]

So this is a thing now:



Remember that this can be fused with AoE spells. It also has no save.

Deceiver has several spells that apply DoTs. My guess is that those apply the fused effect each round but I'll need to test it.

I think the main buildaround spell is Obsidian Flow. AoE, bypasses SR, damage over time to things moving in it, Difficult Terrain to give it time to tick. Shares a school with Slow and Baleful Polymorph, the former is selective AoE, the latter can be fused with AoE spells to apply to multiple targets. Disintegrate, Excruciating Deformation, and Reduce Person are other Transmutation spells that can be combined with no save spells if you use Spell Focus Transmutation.

Some more info on how it determines saves:



You can see that the saves for the individual spells are *both* higher than the fused spell. If you look in the spellbook you'll see that spells that have no save are nonetheless assigned a difficulty class. That is determined by spell level + CHR modifier regardless of Feats (as here with Spell/Elemental Focus). It appears that fused spells default to that regardless of those Feats, since here Wolj has Greater Spell Focus Evo and Greater Elemental Focus Fire, but the fused spell doesn't care, at least on the interface.

I fused Acid Arrow and Frigid Touch (neither of which has a save) and both effects applied regardless so not sure if this is simply an interface issue.

 

[Average Manatee]

Deceiver has several spells that apply DoTs. My guess is that those apply the fused effect each round but I'll need to test it.

I don't see why it would do that. It should apply the normal DoT and whatever the 2nd spell's effect is, but not apply the 2nd spell over and over. That'd just get silly if the 2nd spell was chain lightning or something.

It appears that fused spells default to that regardless of those Feats, since here Wolj has Greater Spell Focus Evo and Greater Elemental Focus Fire, but the fused spell doesn't care, at least on the interface.

Well that's annoying, since I assume that also means that items like e.g. +2 DC for illusion spells also don't work. Which is like 2/3rds of the itemization for casters.

 

[MerchantKing]

I was think about putting my paladin on a griffin. But then I remembered that I don't like Griffins.

They are extremely evil creatures. I think I'd rather put my Dwarf paladin on a bear instead.

 

[Desiderius]

Traps on Ranger General have been buffed. A lot. Cover several spaces and do a shit-ton of damage.

The basic ability Hunt still doesn't work, but with Traps, Flare, Bless, and Healing plenty to do already early in the game.

Unfair Vescavor Queen has pretty crazy stats, but not immune to Blind. Extended Spit Venom (no SR) with Corruptor Mythic does this:



Cam is Witch of the Veil so can go Invis as Swift to cast it.



Ember here as Wandering Marksman lvl 7 taking advantage of the Blind along with Anevia.



Kinetic Sharpshooter Lann did this earlier before the Blind. If he can get through the SR he can hit anything. There's a TTT Mythic that gives advantage on Spell Pen/Dispel rolls that's great on Kinshooter. Approaching 100 damage on Steam Blast, but that doesn't get Touch AC.

Unfair Gibber (36 DC) is tough to manage. Even if you use item to get immunity it has 40 base AB on attax.

Can probably just spam Animate Dead to keep it occupied while taking it down from range with help from the Blind.

 

[MerchantKing]

I found an interesting merc paladin build. I introduce you to Grumpy the Paladin of Torag. Because he is hellbound (oracle) by birth, he is a dispomaniac (drunken master) who makes his own brews (cognatogen). He's there as a tank for my Dhampir playthrough

11 paladin/ 7 vivisectionist / 1 drunken master / 1 enlightened philosopher

This is with tabletop tweaks installed so the stacking is working correctly.

Against evil, he gets a +2 sacred and +2 dodge bonus and fighting defensive with crane wing gets him an additional +4 dodge bonus for 85 total AC. Without TTT's stacking, it would be much higher. I use the mythic medium armor feats to allow him to add as much as 20 "DEX" to his armor class and increase his armor class from the breastplate by +5. I could have make his con a few points lower and his strength higher to make him a little better at hitting things. But he's a dwarf. With a Kindred Half Elf or Assimar at 18 STR he'd be at 48 STR. He's using Taco right now for the +4's to everything.

If I retooled him for a main character with a +STR/ + CHA race and used that +4 to all stats book and bokken's elixir, he'd be at 54 STR and 48 CHA. His con would be up to 50 allowing you to use 23 Charisma as AC

If I then drop cognatogen and just use the STR mutagen, it would be 58 STR and 44 CHA. CON would be at 52 allowing 24 Charisma to contribute to AC (conveniently at 58 CHA). With the +8 belt he'd be at 62 STR.

Without TTT and with all the illegal stacking, it could be more than comfortable enough to running this as a two handed weapon build with mutagen warrior instead of alchemist and he wouldn't need to take crane. I Could even drop the monk level (oracle is mandatory as it's required to convert Charisma to AC).

Running a court poet and sticking the ring of triumphant advance would given him +14 to +16 (depending on whether on not legend) to cha which would put him at 58-60 CHA. Kindred Half Elf can get up to 62 CHA with the +4 bonus to CHA (overkill maybe?). So you should be able to exceed the armor bonus and truly maximize that smite bonus.

The nice thing about the Life Infuser armor from the DLC is that it stacks with the enhancement bonuses from belts. Life infuser is extremely powerful even if you're not running it as an AC source.

Without Mutagen Warrior, and just running an Oracle/Paladin multiclass say with the Angel path to get the full spellbook with something like 11 paladin/9 oracle especially going to 10 angel levels or going into legend to get something like 20 paladin/20 oracle. The only thing he'd be missing is +4 STR and +2 natural armor (which he won't need) and a few feats. With Seeker as the Oracle archetype, you can get some nice bonus feats anyways.

Absurd saves, Absurd AC, Absurd to-hit, Absurd everything. Whether it's TTT or brokencat, medium armor builds are now better than the gay mount builds and the dodge builds.

 

[Desiderius]

Mounted is fine for classes designed around it, as is in a few cases armorless. It just makes a bad go to. Light Armor has it’s own things going for it, as does Heavy in narrow cases usually involving Armor Training.

Most of my toons end up in Medium or Light. One Mounted, another Pet unmounted (there are classes that give bonuses for that), one Heavy, one Armorless is about the usual.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The damage on miss thingie is AoE

Nigga that has been AOE for like 2 years.

 

[Desiderius]

The damage on miss thingie is AoE

Nigga that has been AOE for like 2 years.

Gotta throw a bone to all you casuals once in a while I guess.

 

[Desiderius]

Testing Living Deity Magic Deceiver:



This is the Spirit Shield Revelation from Ancestors Mystery progressing properly with class level. It starts at 4AC and kicks up to 6 at lvl 7 and 8 at lvl 11. Working correctly.



Arcana Theft/Obsidian Flow Fused spell bypasses SR since Flow does (if you choose AoE shape the AoE spell has to bypass SR) and Arcana Theft steals everything it Dispels, AoE, including the Unholy Aura from the Nalfeshneee lol.

Obsidian Flow makes a nice base until the Spell Pen bonus kicks in (on those paths that have it) since it has a nice big radius and effectively Grapples/Entangles everything that fails a save and is Difficult Terrain even on made save plus it does Fire damage so turns on items that work with Fire Damage. Feather Step, Mass makes own team immune.



Can see the effect here. CHR bonus was +8 with fifth level spell so getting a couple more DC points from somehwere, but for now game treats saves on Fused spells like spell-like abilities (spell level + caster stat). If you attack weak save and use AoE that can be good enough even on Unfair, but there are also several no save option for single target spells against bosses. Use an Extend Rod to make the effect last for two rounds instead of one. Can also Fuse Save Lowering spell with Frigid Touch for no save Stagger then follow up with nonfused spell with DC boosts if you want.

 

[Desiderius]

Look at this Inciter Capstone lol:



This class does all the things.

Second level Deceiver fused spell Explosive Runes/Frigid Touch:



No save, no SR, no attk roll 10 ft AoE, Staggers everything plus 6d6 Force and 4d6 Cold. Use Extend Rod to double the Stagger to two rounds or Maximize to get all the damage. I guess it picks up Mark since Frigid Touch is usually a Touch Spell.

 

[Average Manatee]

Look at this Inciter Capstone lol:



This class does all the things.

I mean its just -1. That's nice and all but its not gonna be doing much vs. enemies with 70+ AC and 40+ saves (not that chapter 5 fights are hard considering how OP you are by that point).

Unless... It says "even if the enemies succeed at a will saving throw against the inciter's abilities". I assume that just means the debuff ability you get at level 1, but if it actually means all abilities including spells then that is indeed bullshit as fuck. If it was a PnP campaign I'd be all-in on rules lawyering to the DM about RAW.

 

[Daidre]

Look at this Inciter Capstone lol

And it is bugged It should remove restriction for spellcasting and spell-like abilities usage under Rage effect, like standard Skald capstone, since wording is the same, but it does not.

 

[Desiderius]

Look at this Inciter Capstone lol:



This class does all the things.

I mean its just -1. That's nice and all but its not gonna be doing much vs. enemies with 70+ AC and 40+ saves (not that chapter 5 fights are hard considering how OP you are by that point).

Unless... It says "even if the enemies succeed at a will saving throw against the inciter's abilities". I assume that just means the debuff ability you get at level 1, but if it actually means all abilities including spells then that is indeed bullshit as fuck. If it was a PnP campaign I'd be all-in on rules lawyering to the DM about RAW.

If you don't understand how big of a deal the downside of the Skald class is *as a whole* then you're missing half the game. Three classes I want to play on hold until I've got a non-Skald party. Accept Rage is not an immediate toggle.

As Daidre pointed out if that's bugged that kind of defeats the purpose of that Capstone. Game would have to go on hold until that's fixed.

As for just -1 this thread is full of people losing their shit and playing underleveled chasing +2 bonuses on one toon. -1 on the mob(s) that matter(s) is +6 (or usually more than that) for your team.

 

[Average Manatee]

If you don't understand how big of a deal the downside of the Skald class is *as a whole* then you're missing half the game. Three classes I want to play on hold until I've got a non-Skald party.

Most characters aren't casting and fighting in the same battle (especially considering most battles at level 20 last 1 turn). Sometimes you'll throw out a swift utility spell but that's it.

Accept Rage is not an immediate toggle.

It is though? If you turn off accept rage you also immediately lose all rage effects, unless that was just changed.

As for just -1 this thread is full of people losing their shit and playing underleveled chasing +2 bonuses on one toon. -1 on the mob(s) that matter(s) is +6 (or usually more than that) for your team.

No, a -1 for the enemy is worth +1 for you. This is pretty simple.

 

[Daidre]

It is though? If you turn off accept rage you also immediately lose all rage effects, unless that was just changed.

In my experience, "accept rage" is weird - it works instantly in TB mode, but in RTwP I usually need to wait for ~3 rounds with Lingering Song feat until character can cast again.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Idk if anyone mentioned but the Skald's Rage has some weird interractions with Manticore Shapeshifter because everytime you use the Rage, The manticore default to claws and you have to re-active the spikes. It costs a Free Action (or was a swift action? i don't remember rn) , so it's not THAT big of deal but still can cause minor frustation. I was even considering respec Wenduag because of it..

 

[Desiderius]

Playing TB right now and it isn't lossless.

I use the Skald for offense and defense and if I want to cast spells that means spending a turn without the D up. Except of course for the Skald itself.

Most characters aren't casting and fighting in the same battle (especially considering most battles at level 20 last 1 turn). Sometimes you'll throw out a swift utility spell but that's it.

Second person, how does it work?

Again thinking of gearing up for your endgame raid instead of playing the game (this one) 90% of which is getting there. There are *many* classes that benefit (some require) from mixing spells and abilities with fighting, and *all* class benefit from Guarded Stance, Rolling Dodge, Reflexive Dodge, Animal Totem, etc. Even if you're balls-out with Inspire Ferocity it's nice to have that up for Touch spells and the like.

No, a -1 for the enemy is worth +1 for you. This is pretty simple.

-1 atk for an enemy is +1 AC for all your toons. It's also skill checks, AC, and Will saves (starting at lvl 10)

There also appears to be a taunt effect but not sure.

 

[Desiderius]

In testing Magic Deceiver it applied a Final Feint to a Nalfeshneee but the ensuing attack from another character was not vs flat-footed. A few things could be causing that but I'd advise using the respec mod to manage features that aren't implemented fully yet. That's the only thing that comes to mind that isn't WAI yet.

 

[Average Manatee]

Again thinking of gearing up for your endgame raid instead of playing the game (this one) 90% of which is getting there.

The ability to cast while under rage is your capstone at level 20. Do you start the game at level 20?

-1 atk for an enemy is +1 AC for all your toons. It's also skill checks, AC, and Will saves (starting at lvl 10)

Correct. You said it was +6 for your team

 

[Mauman]

In testing Magic Deceiver it applied a Final Feint to a Nalfeshneee but the ensuing attack from another character was not vs flat-footed. A few things could be causing that but I'd advise using the respec mod to manage features that aren't implemented fully yet. That's the only thing that comes to mind that isn't WAI yet.

Did some testing with Final Feint (as a free action from skald Diva style).

It applied to the iterative attacks of my Skald, but it didn't apply to the attacks of anyone else. I'm assuming (based on the wording of Final Feint and the general usage of feint) that this HAS to be a bug.

 

[Desiderius]

The ability to cast while under rage is your capstone at level 20. Do you start the game at level 20?

You got me.

Just saying the downside before that is highly underrated. Unless you're abusing respecs the team that made it there probably wouldn't gain as much from that Capstone as if it weren't there for the other 19 levels (where you could play classes that suffer the most from it).

Good point.

You said it was +6 for your team

10 abilities at +1 for the team per > 29 abilities at +2 each, and this one debuffs four different things.

Can you land it half the time before that to get the effective -1? On Unfair that's a lot of work. Even 25% (of +2 for team on 4 different things) is a lot of value, especially for a passive.

 

[Desiderius]

I can't remember, what is the benefit from saving Crusaders at Lost Chapel?

 

[Daidre]

I can't remember, what is the benefit from saving Crusaders at Lost Chapel?

Saving enough prevents some army exp-based losses - max loss is 175 exp worth of units.

 

[Desiderius]

Dimension Door Wand no longer gives Mass option, and scroll is unscribale. Not sure if WAI. Made Nulk fight tougher.

 

[Mauman]

Dimension Door Wand no longer gives Mass option

Check your mods? Literally just checked and the mass option on the wand is still there.