Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Grunker]

you guys are so fucking gloomy and depressing, who needs bugfixes and mythic content when we're getting crucial features like armor dyeing

priorities, people

The most important question is: will saves be compatible?
I haven't finished my first playthrough (arcanist lich into legend), but I'd like to resume it at some point.

They will be, AFAIK

In fact, an Owlcat dev on Reddit said something fairly depressing in answer to that question a la “oh don’t worry, you can totally use old saves - there are only changes in the end game so you won’t even notice any differences before that!”

 

[Zed]

I fucked up almost every companion spec and to respec I'd have to break the core rules setting. My achievements!

Instead I end up barely playing the game.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Every new big patch utterly borking achievements is like a sacred tradition for them, so they will solve your dilemma come Thursday.

 

[Stoned Ape]

My latest stand alone DLC save got nuked hard when it got patched, so those are murky waters.

Me too. It's damned frustrating when that happens, got to the final voyage and it feels like I wasted hours on it.

Still, almost finished the second voyage this time, we'll see if they screw us over again when the EE drops!

 

[Desiderius]

Mm. Have you considered doing something other than spending all your time thinking about this game? I think you need an intervention or something.

Have you considered not beclowning yourself in public with statements that can be refuted by five minutes looking at a character creation screen?

Alternatively you could see what one guy was able to do with the Hunter Class all by himself in CotW (where it's obvious why Precise Companion gives the Companion an ability and actually makes you want to play Hunter) while Owlcat's staff of... more than one guy was evidently too busy making colored armor to deliver what they promised the kickstarters.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Alternatively you could see what one guy was able to do with the Hunter Class all by himself in CotW (where it's obvious why Precise Companion gives the Companion an ability and actually makes you want to play Hunter) while Owlcat's staff of... more than one guy was evidently too busy making colored armor to deliver what they promised the kickstarters.

To be fair to Owlcat, whoever has been involved with implementing the armor color system are probably GUI designers who have nothing to do with gameplay-related bugs.

 

[Desiderius]

To be fair to Owlcat, whoever has been involved with implementing the armor color system are probably GUI designers who have nothing to do with gameplay-related bugs.

Well, that's my point. Priorities. My guess is that it's a result of Soyer disease where the (genius) dev is alienated from the player base in some way so has difficulty finding the courage/motivation to fight for a game that would appeal to himself.

Since Holic has done that by himself it's less a case of resources than simple execution, but resources don't hurt and the suits have directed them away from delivering a product that's up to the standards* of what the devs originally envisioned. We're getting the back-rationalizations for that now second-hand from LannTheStupid I think but it would just be simpler to do what it takes to fix the bugs, deliver the content, and salvage your reputation like Soyer did to some extent with Deadfire. Then don't make the same mistakes with Rogue Trader.

* - it is in fact not *that* bad in the greater scheme of things but that's a lot lower bar than what the devs (and us funders!) originally had in mind/had hoped for.

 

[ArchAngel]

Mm. Have you considered doing something other than spending all your time thinking about this game? I think you need an intervention or something.

Have you considered not beclowning yourself in public with statements that can be refuted by five minutes looking at a character creation screen?

Alternatively you could see what one guy was able to do with the Hunter Class all by himself in CotW (where it's obvious why Precise Companion gives the Companion an ability and actually makes you want to play Hunter) while Owlcat's staff of... more than one guy was evidently too busy making colored armor to deliver what they promised the kickstarters.

Apparently best Hunter is one that gets inquisitor judgements, is that true?

 

[scytheavatar]

Mm. Have you considered doing something other than spending all your time thinking about this game? I think you need an intervention or something.

Have you considered not beclowning yourself in public with statements that can be refuted by five minutes looking at a character creation screen?

Alternatively you could see what one guy was able to do with the Hunter Class all by himself in CotW (where it's obvious why Precise Companion gives the Companion an ability and actually makes you want to play Hunter) while Owlcat's staff of... more than one guy was evidently too busy making colored armor to deliver what they promised the kickstarters.

Apparently best Hunter is one that gets inquisitor judgements, is that true?

Judgements are decent but nowhere near as good as domains, which is why if you really want Judgement you might as well pick base Inquisitor.

 

[Desiderius]

Apparently best Hunter is one that gets inquisitor judgements, is that true?

Best? For what? It looked great but discovering that the Judgments didn't work killed a playthrough for me when I put it on Lann. Those were just recently finally implemented. Yeah Judgments on Pet OP no doubt.

Along with base Hunter (and the subtype that's too weird even for me Colluding Scoundrel) it's the only one that doesn't feel like you're trying to fight with a Druid the first half of the game thanks to Hunter's Tactics saving you from the inexplicable Precise Companion nerf. Wandering Marksman would be supersmooth for Ranged (I had it planned for my first Hard run) since it has Circumstance Bonus for Ranged attax to make up for some of the 3/4 and extra scaling Dodge AC which is perfect for Leopard pet. But with no Ranged TW Feats for Precise Companion to unlock (seriously - try to get them on Ekun/Okbo compared to Hunter in CotW and you'll see what I mean) it's just meh. Doesn't help that the Circumstance bonus doesn't trigger unless pet circle overlaps the thing you're trying to target (the old Blindfight zero range bug maybe).

Divine Hunter ended up being ideal for Haplo's Travel Domain Dimensional Hop Charger but with no Outflank early it's going to feel too underpowered for too long to generate much interest.

I played Urban Hunter on Lann for my Core run and it eventually got there around lvl 13 IIRC since it's the only way to give a Mount Greater Trip and a good way to get Tandem and turn on Lann's Combat Reflexes. But there's just not many players willing to fight thru several levels of 3/4 with no Mutagen or anything to make up for it up front.

 

[Desiderius]

Judgements are decent but nowhere near as good as domains, which is why if you really want Judgement you might as well pick base Inquisitor.

This is wrong. The point of the class is that the pet (almost certainly you'll be Mounting it too) *also* gets the Judgments. You've got two slow-developing classes (Owlcat's nerf made Hunter very slow developing) glommed together so it takes awhile to get there but Judgements scale like crazy and Wrath gives you the unlimited activation Mythic.

 

[ArchAngel]

Apparently best Hunter is one that gets inquisitor judgements, is that true?

Best? For what? It looked great but discovering that the Judgments didn't work killed a playthrough for me when I put it on Lann. Those were just recently finally implemented. Yeah Judgments on Pet OP no doubt.

Along with base Hunter (and the subtype that's too weird even for me Colluding Scoundrel) it's the only one that doesn't feel like you're trying to fight with a Druid the first half of the game thanks to Hunter's Tactics saving you from the inexplicable Precise Companion nerf. Wandering Marksman would be supersmooth for Ranged (I had it planned for my first Hard run) since it has Circumstance Bonus for Ranged attax to make up for some of the 3/4 and extra scaling Dodge AC which is perfect for Leopard pet. But with no Ranged TW Feats for Precise Companion to unlock (seriously - try to get them on Ekun/Okbo compared to Hunter in CotW and you'll see what I mean) it's just meh. Doesn't help that the Circumstance bonus doesn't trigger unless pet circle overlaps the thing you're trying to target (the old Blindfight zero range bug maybe).

Divine Hunter ended up being ideal for Haplo's Travel Domain Dimensional Hop Charger but with no Outflank early it's going to feel too underpowered for too long to generate much interest.

I played Urban Hunter on Lann for my Core run and it eventually got there around lvl 13 IIRC since it's the only way to give a Mount Greater Trip and a good way to get Tandem and turn on Lann's Combat Reflexes. But there's just not many players willing to fight thru several levels of 3/4 with no Mutagen or anything to make up for it up front.

What does it matter if they didn't work before if they work now?

 

[Desiderius]

Forester is the one I'd really like to try but it's the super Favored Terrain class and for some reason Favored Terrain Bonuses aren't advancing on any class.

This sort of thing comes up a lot. EDIT: I'm a little wary of this being another Vek bug like the Sohei Weapon Training bug so test for yourself. If you want to jump all over me for this whatever. I wouldn't have had to go modded if it weren't for all the bugs in the base game many of which Vek fixed himself.

What does it matter if they didn't work before if they work now?

Because they already lost a chunk of the playerbase and more important the part of the playerbase that are willing to try out new classes like Divine Hound and drum up interest in them, and thus the game. Just too many cases for people to invest time into classes that are at risk of not working/missing features.

 

[Desiderius]

What does it matter if they didn't work before if they work now?

Because they already lost a chunk of the playerbase and more important the part of the playerbase that are willing to try out new classes like Divine Hound and drum up interest in them, and thus the game. Just too many cases for people to invest time into classes that are at risk of not working/missing features.

 

[ArchAngel]

I ask because for my next run I was thinking that Skald and having this Hunter as my one mounted dude (I assume Rage does not block Judgements). Also the plan was to have Brown Fur Transmuter as main buffer and it would also transform that dog/wolf into something stronger like Smilodon or a Dragon (can you mount a dragon? :D)

 

[Desiderius]

Sounds cool. One of the benefits of Hound was the better pathing but seems like pathing on bigger Mounts is one of the things they have been working on so that could be great. Been thinking about Polymorphing some pets again myself.

 

[LannTheStupid]

yeah, precise companion, you either know how to work with your pet to gain advantage in melee or you know how to fight with it so it doesn't muck you up when you're shooting at range.

This is a very good point. I did not think about this interpretation. Thank you!

See, even poets and tabletoppers are useful sometimes.

 

[Desiderius]

Of course I went through many of the patch notes to see what might have changed in that regard, but from previous experience I don't trust Owlcat in the least when they say something has been fixed; multiple times they said that only for it to be not fixed, or become broken again some patch later.

On the bright side most of the late content they finally implement doesn't make it into the patch notes so they don't have to admit it was late. Only way to tell is to fire up a save, respec and test yourself!

yeah, precise companion, you either know how to work with your pet to gain advantage in melee or you know how to fight with it so it doesn't muck you up when you're shooting at range.

This is a very good point. I did not think about this interpretation. Thank you!

See, even poets and tabletoppers are useful sometimes.

People who know how to do that are going to choose a class that isn't 3/4 with no abilities to do it with. Then LannTheStupid's going to (correctly) say that not enough people are playing Hunter to bother fixing it. Which is how we got on this topic in the first place.

 

[ArchAngel]

Sounds cool. One of the benefits of Hound was the better pathing but seems like pathing on bigger Mounts is one of the things they have been working on so that could be great. Been thinking about Polymorphing some pets again myself.

View attachment 28705

Maybe I should do a whole party of pets, not use them for mounted combat but polymorphing them all into dragons :D
Maybe something to try one day for my Gold Dragon run :D

 

[Desiderius]

In the unlikely event I ever do I Gold Dragon run the plan is to do that with Dragonheir Scion 20 and Weapon Training Natural Weapons.

Would be interesting to see if you could do it with Beast Tamer Summons. That class looks underrated since it does get Inspire Greatness and Fascinate.

 

[Stoned Ape]

In the unlikely event I ever do I Gold Dragon run the plan is to do that with Dragonheir Scion 20 and Weapon Training Natural Weapons.

Would be interesting to see if you could do it with Beast Tamer Summons. That class looks underrated since it does get Inspire Greatness and Fascinate.

Honestly, I think it might be more fun to go for Feral Champion --> Gold Dragon. You could use the Warpriest tunic you find in the ruins then, too.

 

[Grunker]

Isn't Gold Dragon one of the most underdeveloped paths? I was kind of miffed when I saw EE would have changes to Devil, Legend and Trickster, but that Gold Dragon specifically would receive no changes. It is also the only path that to my knowledge has been confirmed as receiving no changes?

 

[Haplo]

I ask because for my next run I was thinking that Skald and having this Hunter as my one mounted dude (I assume Rage does not block Judgements).

Better test this.

Also the plan was to have Brown Fur Transmuter as main buffer and it would also transform that dog/wolf into something stronger like Smilodon or a Dragon (can you mount a dragon? :D)

No, you cannot mount any polymorphed pets anymore.

 

[ArchAngel]

Isn't Gold Dragon one of the most underdeveloped paths? I was kind of miffed when I saw EE would have changes to Devil, Legend and Trickster, but that Gold Dragon specifically would receive no changes. It is also the only path that to my knowledge has been confirmed as receiving no changes?

Does not matter if you take it in DLC3.

 

[Yosharian]

FYI the Colluding Scoundrel ability doesn't even do anything

I am 78% sure that Judgement use isn't blocked by Rage