Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Grunker]

Looked up Wolf-Scarred on the wiki and went 'woah' but then I checked reddit and saw the nerf

Surprisingly few ways to get easy natural attacks without going fairly deep into classes, especially if you want to go Feral Champion, which I do. You can find 4 or 5 levels with some good will though, so maybe I'll be boring and fit in Alchemist there. I'd rather put something else in, but it seems like the most obvious way to get an affordable bite into the build. I don't want to give up Feral Champ, that I know.

 

[Jaedar]

Looked up Wolf-Scarred on the wiki and went 'woah' but then I checked reddit and saw the nerf

They nerfed it? I hear they also nerfed elemental barrage so it only works for spells as well. Is there anything cool left except for monk ac stacking?

 

[Grunker]

Looked up Wolf-Scarred on the wiki and went 'woah' but then I checked reddit and saw the nerf

They nerfed it? I hear they also nerfed elemental barrage so it only works for spells as well. Is there anything cool left except for monk ac stacking?

It gives 10% unavoidable, universal spell failure lol

 

[Haplo]

Looked up Wolf-Scarred on the wiki and went 'woah' but then I checked reddit and saw the nerf

They nerfed it? I hear they also nerfed elemental barrage so it only works for spells as well. Is there anything cool left except for monk ac stacking?

Well, at least for casters, supposedly they are adding Elemental Spell metamagic in EE (should allow dual-element spells). Would go well with TTT version of Elemental Barrage (which allows multiple triggers per spell hit).
Will make even Scorching Ray dual-element... not to mention something like Elemental Assessor.

 

[Jaedar]

Looked up Wolf-Scarred on the wiki and went 'woah' but then I checked reddit and saw the nerf

They nerfed it? I hear they also nerfed elemental barrage so it only works for spells as well. Is there anything cool left except for monk ac stacking?

It gives 10% unavoidable, universal spell failure lol

Are you putting a caster in melee? Who cares about spell failure when you're just dipping for the bonus attack?

Well, at least for casters, supposedly they are adding Elemental Spell metamagic in EE (should allow dual-element spells). Would go well with TTT version of Elemental Barrage (which allows multiple triggers per spell hit).
Will make even Scorching Ray dual-element... not to mention something like Elemental Assessor.

Still a lot worse than triggering it 4 times per attack, 6 times per turn
But it would cement ray spells as the premiere damage dealers, by a long shot. Iirc lategame Ember was already dealing ~1000 damage per cast with hellfire ray.

 

[Haplo]

Well, at least for casters, supposedly they are adding Elemental Spell metamagic in EE (should allow dual-element spells). Would go well with TTT version of Elemental Barrage (which allows multiple triggers per spell hit).
Will make even Scorching Ray dual-element... not to mention something like Elemental Assessor.

Still a lot worse than triggering it 4 times per attack, 6 times per turn

Well, that was clearly an exploit, though.
Even using Geniekind along Enlarge/LP is not legal in accordance with tabletop rules (or rather is legal, but effects of Size buffs are suppressed then).
Not to mention stacking these spells and becoming a genius of all 4 elements at the same time...

 

[Yosharian]

I'm making Ember into a BFT and there's nothing you can do about it

 

[Jaedar]

Well, that was clearly an exploit, though.
Even using Geniekind along Enlarge/LP is not legal in accordance with tabletop rules (or rather is legal, but effects of Size buffs are suppressed then).
Not to mention stacking these spells and becoming a genius of all 4 elements at the same time...

I didn't use geniekind to do it, I used magus. Magically enchanting your blade to do elemental damage should count as a spell effect, surely?

 

[Rhobar121]

Actually, the mount is the only tank you need, even for unfair.
Horse can be enought, although other choices are definitely better. The most I could get up to 75 ac outside combat with elk.
I don't count bonuses like fighting defensively or crane styles that work only in combat.
Due to the fact that I play TT, AC should be even higher on the base game.

Elk AC breakdown:

AC Bonus Breakdown:
-- Touch AC bonuses --
+10: Basic AC bonus
+14: Dexterity bonus
+4: Deflection bonus [Angelic Aura]
+1: Dodge bonus [Dodge feat]
+1: Dodge bonus [Haste spell]
+4: Dodge bonus [Fighting Defensively + Crane Style]
+3: Morale bonus [Helmet of Comradery]
+2: Insight bonus [Foresight spell]
+1: Untyped bonus [Ward Master's Amulet]
-1: Size penalty
-- Non-Touch AC bonuses --
+24: Natural Armor [Animal Companion bonus]
+6: Natural Armor [Frightful Aspect]
+6: Natural Armor [Inspired Rage]
+5: Enhancement to Natural Armor [Amulet of Deep Roots]
+8: Armor bonus [Bracers of Armor +8]
+4: Shield bonus [Shield spell]
Total Armor Class: 92
Touch Armor Class: 39
Conditional: +4 vs melee

Not using the best tank items, gave those to my boar

Shy Lily's Helmet (+2 profane AC and +4 str)
Half of the Pair (+2 circumstance AC and +2 attack)
Shield of Faith (+2-5 deflection AC)
Barkskin (+2-5 enhancement nature armor)
Shield (+4 shield AC) or Mounted Shield (+1-5 shield AC)

Mounted Shield is not useful if you have someone who can cast shield unless you are using tower shield which doesn't make much sense.

Also Friend to Animals are broken because it add charisma bonus to all saves (sacred bonus).

 

[Haplo]

Well, that was clearly an exploit, though.
Even using Geniekind along Enlarge/LP is not legal in accordance with tabletop rules (or rather is legal, but effects of Size buffs are suppressed then).
Not to mention stacking these spells and becoming a genius of all 4 elements at the same time...

I didn't use geniekind to do it, I used magus. Magically enchanting your blade to do elemental damage should count as a spell effect, surely?

Magus Arcane Weapons Enchantment didn't grant 4 triggers per attack, though?

 

[Jaedar]

Well, that was clearly an exploit, though.
Even using Geniekind along Enlarge/LP is not legal in accordance with tabletop rules (or rather is legal, but effects of Size buffs are suppressed then).
Not to mention stacking these spells and becoming a genius of all 4 elements at the same time...

I didn't use geniekind to do it, I used magus. Magically enchanting your blade to do elemental damage should count as a spell effect, surely?

Magus Arcane Weapons Enchantment didn't grant 4 triggers per attack, though?

It didn't? Then how did I manage to do 2000 damage per turn?
I'm pretty sure it did trigger if you used them to add 1d6 fire, 1d6 electricity, and so on.

 

[Grunker]

Looked up Wolf-Scarred on the wiki and went 'woah' but then I checked reddit and saw the nerf

They nerfed it? I hear they also nerfed elemental barrage so it only works for spells as well. Is there anything cool left except for monk ac stacking?

It gives 10% unavoidable, universal spell failure lol

Are you putting a caster in melee? Who cares about spell failure when you're just dipping for the bonus attack?

Having 10% to fail buffs etc. sounds like absolute ass considering the amount of prebuffing time you have even *with* bubble mod

 

[Daidre]

Magus Arcane Weapons Enchantment didn't grant 4 triggers per attack, though?

I think I was not getting 4 triggers from the weapon enchanted with all 4 elements, only 2 per hit, when I've played it unmodded right before Barrage nerf.
Geniekind was different though, its elemental damage was processed as "fake" hit with separate damage instance, creating extra procs.

 

[Desiderius]

Reduce is really good lol. He can still Power Attack Reduced. I don’t get why people are determined to take every companion in the opposite direction they were designed for. He’s always the highest AB companion by miles for me already.

Tennis with a Stradivarius…

 

[Jaedar]

Looked up Wolf-Scarred on the wiki and went 'woah' but then I checked reddit and saw the nerf

They nerfed it? I hear they also nerfed elemental barrage so it only works for spells as well. Is there anything cool left except for monk ac stacking?

It gives 10% unavoidable, universal spell failure lol

Are you putting a caster in melee? Who cares about spell failure when you're just dipping for the bonus attack?

Having 10% to fail buffs etc. sounds like absolute ass considering the amount of prebuffing time you have even *with* bubble mod

I mean if you dip 1 level into oracle, it's not like you have particularly many or particularly good spells...
Obviously if you are going seriously into casting in any way 10% failure is awful.

Magus Arcane Weapons Enchantment didn't grant 4 triggers per attack, though?

I think I was not getting 4 triggers from the weapon enchanted with all 4 elements, only 2 per hit, when I played it unmodded right before Barrage nerf.
Geniekind was different though, its elemental damage was processed as "fake" hit with separate damage instance, creating extra procs.

Quite possible, but 2 is still huge amounts of free damage.

 

[Average Manatee]

Obviously if you are going seriously into casting in any way 10% failure is awful.

I wish the tradeoffs for spell failure were more enticing. I've played semi-meme builds that have 5-15% spell failure and it's actually kind of bearable. It's just so rare that there are any tangible rewards for it in a game where most of the time the best thing to be wearing is robes anyway.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Looked up Wolf-Scarred on the wiki and went 'woah' but then I checked reddit and saw the nerf

Surprisingly few ways to get easy natural attacks without going fairly deep into classes, especially if you want to go Feral Champion, which I do. You can find 4 or 5 levels with some good will though, so maybe I'll be boring and fit in Alchemist there. I'd rather put something else in, but it seems like the most obvious way to get an affordable bite into the build. I don't want to give up Feral Champ, that I know.

You can bites via companion buffs; Witch can give you a bite via Beast's Gift, as can Skald via animal fury song.

You could also go 1 level of archeologist (for luck) --> 2 levels of dragon disciple (for a bite, a feat, and +2 STR) which would still let you reach 17th level for Feral Champion for 6th level spells.

 

[Desiderius]

It should just have been order vs chaos.

I agree that would make things more clear now, especially since most people aren't familiar with Three Hearts and Three Lions.

I see now why Anglo-saxons are so alien to the Russian mindset. This is such hot garbage I have no words.

If you're familiar with Tolkien and want to taste a bit of Russian thinking, check "The Last Ringbearer".

Without an objective world to be about what use are stories at all?

So in your mind human society "laws" are the same as nature's? Like, "thou shalt not kill" is the same as Newton's first law of motion?

I only wish to live long enough to see how Einstein's equation burns all of your commandments.

They’re. Not. Mine.

That’s the whole point. It’s amazing how you - all, without even realizing it - are employing the full panoply of tools and taboos constructed to challenge Christian (at the time it was usually phrased “religious” or something more general) subjectivism against any hint of the very empirical objectivism those tools were devised to replace it with.

You’ve become what you were taught to fear. Or at minimum you’re having an auto-immune reaction.

Of course physical and moral/social laws are not the same, but the antinomian argument (and the related fantasy = anti-reality many of you have unwittingly internalized) is that there are no laws at all (of either kind) apart from human conceptions/constructions. That’s the heart of Wokelism and it’s leaked into the Sciences and the regular curricula throughout the West.

I’m not just some random talking shit online here. This is my actual field and I saw it (first hand) running roughshod in the Ivies a generation ago and bleeding into (especially elite) AP curricula/test prep on the meantime. To the extent I even am a practicing Xtian at all it was in search of a bulwark against that onslaught, a simple reconnection with one’s roots that would be straightforwardly accepted and celebrated if it were any other roots… and I think I’ve finally figured out why we’ve all been so fervently conditioned not to do so in this case.

The conversation started because of the claim that Greybor’s murders were lawful, which is a contradiction in terms entirely apart from any of the hard relativism it seems everyone here (and elsewhere) has internalized.

 

[Jaedar]

The conversation started because of the claim that Greybor’s murders were lawful, which is a contradiction in terms entirely apart from any of the hard relativism it seems everyone here (and elsewhere) has internalized.

Do you think soldiers also must be neutral/chaotic?

(I agree Greybor is not actually a very lawful character. If you defeat him when he tries to assassinate you he reneges on his contract, and aside from being 'professional' he has no lawful qualities).

Imo an inquisitor is a good example of a lawful assassin/murderer.

I’m not just some random talking shit online here. This is my actual field

My condolences. And you know, I agree that relativism is way too fucking rampant, but regardless of who invented "your" laws, they don't become objective just because you imagine them so. The actual objective laws are things like Newtons 3rd and the conservation of energy (or whatever true objective laws lie behind them that we have yet to pin down,) and they make a terrible basis for an alignment system because you don't have a choice of whether to obey them.

 

[Desiderius]

Keep it coming

If you really plan to build a "biter" I did some crazy stuff back then.
Motherless thiefling Monk, wolf scarred Seeker Oracle with natures whispers (I think wolfscarred is a bit nerfed), Vivi for feral mutagen, dragon bite from Dragon Disciple and finished with Primalist for animal fury and beast totem(and Serpent bloodline giving bite and gore more range). Choosen demon for even more natural attack goodness.
Fighting with tooth and nail and head butts, it was glorious. It's just a late bloomer and I don't really like this kind of multi classing.

Don't multi, it's bad. And without P:K Bite cloak extra bites aren't very good - watch your combat log. Short Range melee doesn't get as many full attacks as Reach/Ranged anyway and you're usually hitting so hard that stuff is dead before your fifth or sixth attack rolls around, with a -5 penalty, with half STR bonus. If you're soloing and/or at higher levels where you can stack the buffs sky high maybe but a lot of builds have been nerfed chasing Bites.

most of the time he has issues surviving and connecting. Hellknight is also not a great prestige class in general imo.

No, most of the time *you* have trouble surviving and connecting with Reg, as most people do when they first get him. I think at this point the subjective and objective have just been inverted.

It gets *much* better if you let him ride the bench until Drezen and use Reduce Person. If you're struggling with DEX-based make sure you have Reduce up, it's a principal benefit of DEX-based in the first place. People get confused about classes that add something not on the character sheet, like Cav Orders and Bloodrager Bloodlines. The main benefit of Reg's Order (there are some other good ones if you roll your own) is that it can gets Domains. Not just one but multiple. Nobilty unlocks Inspiring Command, Law lets you take 11 on the check of your choice, Travel gives you Dimensional Hop. And you can also get Fearsomeness (the Thug effect) to make him into a Vavakia Vanguard (Intimidate is a Skill Check for you, not a Save for them). It also gets a scaling Aura that provides Morale AC AoE which is also a unique and powerful effect.

And there are some great Hammers throughout the game. The mental energy poured into taking these companion builds in a million different directions would be more productively applied to getting the most out of what they already have, which is substantial.

 

[Cyberarmy]

I had fun

 

[Desiderius]

And you know, I agree that relativism is way too fucking rampant, but regardless of who invented "your" laws, they don't become objective just because you imagine them so. The actual objective laws are things like Newtons 3rd and the conservation of energy (or whatever true objective laws lie behind them that we have yet to pin down,) and they make a terrible basis for an alignment system because you don't have a choice of whether to obey them.

Just unbelievable. They're not mine. You just can't let it go. It's the only trick you know because it's all you've been taught so even when someone is making the opposite argument you flail about impotently. Sad.

And yeah, as a direct consequence of that impotence institutional acceptance of physical laws is now very much on the chopping block.

 

[Jaedar]

They're not mine.

Since you can't read between the lines: I don't care if you made them up, if the pope made them up, or if a very important person thousands of years ago made them up. You claiming they are objective doesn't make them so, exactly like how someone claiming "the stars are the fires the ancestors are burning" doesn't make that as valid as saying "the stars are fusioning balls of mostly hydrogen".

 

[Grunker]

Looked up Wolf-Scarred on the wiki and went 'woah' but then I checked reddit and saw the nerf

Surprisingly few ways to get easy natural attacks without going fairly deep into classes, especially if you want to go Feral Champion, which I do. You can find 4 or 5 levels with some good will though, so maybe I'll be boring and fit in Alchemist there. I'd rather put something else in, but it seems like the most obvious way to get an affordable bite into the build. I don't want to give up Feral Champ, that I know.

You can bites via companion buffs; Witch can give you a bite via Beast's Gift, as can Skald via animal fury song.

You could also go 1 level of archeologist (for luck) --> 2 levels of dragon disciple (for a bite, a feat, and +2 STR) which would still let you reach 17th level for Feral Champion for 6th level spells.

Yeah, right now I’m working with two full-fledged build versions, one is more “pure” and one is more focused on more natural attacks. Will probably post both once they’re fully mapped out.

 

[Delterius]

Ok, this is fun


Also there's a +10 Mobility belt in the Hellknight Outpost!

How do you build for a mobility trickster? Do I need combat reflexes or is it the enemy that needs to have it? Do I need a reach weapon? Thinking of trying it off as a pure vivisectionist.